Back to Amanda’s home that night and Dotty is cutting flowers in the kitchen very unenthusiastically. They look quite sad.. a hint that all is not well?..
Amanda calls as she enters: Mother!
Dotty: Oh Amanda! Where have you been? You should have left a note! [I just hope Amanda took the bread out of the oven before she was carted off! The kitchen and house are unscathed so I guess so!]
Amanda: I know Mother I’m sorry. I didn’t have time.
Dotty: I was worried about you. Now did you have a dinner date?
Amanda: ahhh no
Amanda’s acting nervous.
Dotty: Amanda, now I know that look! Now you can’t keep things from your mother, what’s wrong?
Amanda: Mother, I really don’t know how to tell you this.
Dotty calmly: Well. Just. Say it.
Amanda: Okay. I was in jail.
Dotty: Ohh haaa how awful! Can you imagine, 
your first job assignment and it’s a security system in a prison.
Amanda takes Dotty by her arms: Mother. I wasn’t working…
(Amanda takes a deep breath and continues quietly)
…I was arrested.
Dotty: Arrested? (Amanda nods) What on earth for?
Amanda: Murder.
[I have no idea why but the way Amanda says this is funny to me!]
Dotty: Oh that’s ridiculous!
Amanda: Mother they found my finger prints on the murder weapon.
Dotty: How?
Amanda: I was at his house.
Dotty: whose house?
Amanda: My boss.
Dotty: you mean your boss was murdered your first 
day on the job?
[It was quite a first day huh! 
Dotty must be thinking those crazy film people are much better to work for! ]
Amanda: yes mother, I feel terrible about it.
Dotty: I know you do but what about your finger prints? [LOL why would Dotty ask about finger prints.. oh whatever.. ]
Amanda: they were on a steak knife.
Dotty: you mean the police think that you stabbed him with the steak knife?
Amanda: yes Mother. They think I was trying to fight off his advances.
Dotty: well did you? [whahahaa!!]
Amanda: Noo
Dotty: you di- [too funny.. Amanda is charged with Murder and Dotty seems shocked her daughter didn’t resist?! tee hee]
Amanda: nooooo because he didn’t make any 
advances. He was a very nice man. [well.. there you have it. we’ve been told yet again what a nice good man Byron was!]
Dotty: then why would somebody stab him?
Amanda: I don’t know.
Dotty sighs: Amanda. They could blame you.
[I can understand it would take time to sink in for Dotty! this is a new concept ]
Amanda firmly: Mother, they do blame me. It’s why I was in jail.
Dotty’s solution is priceless: Well, did you tell them you didn’t do it?
(Love Amanda’s face here in response!! Rofl!! No Dotty she forgot that one.. yep that will fix it! 😉 I don’t know why Amanda didn’t think of that! )
Amanda: Ohh mother of course I told them that I didn’t do it!! ( Amanda voice is reduced to a whisper) …they don’t believe me.
Dotty: no.
They both take a deep breath.
Dotty grabs both of Amanda’s arms: Ohhhh my poor darling. What are we going to do?
Amanda: I don’t know. I think the first thing I better do is get the washing, it’s gonna rain.
Dotty: right!
Love that as they sit there not knowing what to do next Amanda says she’ll bring the washing in, it’s gonna rain! Such a champ our Amanda..taking care of the practical.. there’s still work to be done.. if it were me I’d be huddled in a corner somewhere.. This seems to be a way her character copes- she focuses on the next thing and doesn’t dwell too much. I wonder.. is this how Amanda deals with her feelings for Lee?
You know I’m quite surprised at Dotty’s reaction to hearing Amanda is under suspicion for a murder!! I thought she would have gone hysterical!!
Isn’t it lovely to see for once, Amanda gets to actually confide something to Dotty- and share some of her worries and stress with her? It’s quite poignant as it demonstrates what Amanda misses out on with not being able to talk about her agency work. This was a benefit of working with Byron- Amanda was actually able to talk about that work with Dotty!!! It’s really important to have someone to share your stress with and support you- who knows what you are going through- we understand that only too well after Burn Out last week!!
If Amanda has a problem, it’s automatically Dotty’s problem too.. what are ‘we’ going to do?!! Lee doesn’t have anyone who he has that kind of relationship with – except maybe he is beginning to foster this relationship with Amanda more and more.. when Amanda has a problem it seems Lee has a problem. 
Remember how Lee used ‘we’ in that conversation at the jail? ‘we have to get you a good lawyer’ – it’s like Lee has started to think of them as ‘we’ … though I think Lee has resisted letting Amanda help him with his problems- in Burn Out Lee let Amanda into his problems I think.. To me, this hints that Lee would not have let Amanda just drift out of his life.. but.. we’ll never know! Anyway.. moving on…
Out in her back yard, Amanda begins taking the clothes down…Ahhh and Mr Fix it turns up to reassure Amanda as she brings the washing in! 🙂
She removes the shirt revealing a big smiling hunk… LOL Lee is standing right next to a space in the clothes.. he could have made himself know.. he is too cheeky!
Lee: Hi!!!!!
Amanda is startled. But has a chuckle and smiles.
Lee: Hi.
Amanda: I wish you wouldn’t startle me like that.
Lee: I know,..
just second nature I guess.
Amanda: yeah I know.
Love the little ‘startling’ moment.. we don’t see those anymore as much as we do in the first season.. I kinda miss them! In fact if I were Amanda (here I go again..) I’d be checking for Lee every time I went out the back 😉
Lee: How you doin?
Amanda: Ohh I’m okay.
Lee: Ahh Amanda. It’s about the lawyer. You need a 
good criminal attorney.
Amanda: Well I-
Lee: I have just the guy. His name is Dewey Lawrence, he is a 
hell of a good lawyer. The only problem is, you’re going to have to meet him at the police station.
[I love that Lee knows Amanda doesn’t want to go back there.. he knows her so well!]
Amanda: Ohhhhh Noooo not at the police station.
Lee: Amanda look, they just want to ask some more things. Routine stuff, that’s all.
Amanda: you don’t think they’re gonna put me back in jail do you?
Lee smiles sweetly at Amanda…
and replies: I wouldn’t worry about that. Okay?..
(Amanda nods)
…I’m gonna get you out of this!
[Mr Fixit is on the case!! Lee is so swoony here! And Amanda doesn’t seem to realise fully how sweet he is being! She’s so worried with her own situation.]
Amanda smiles: thanks a lot! [At least she rewards Lee with a big smile! ]
Lee: okay. Yeah.
Oh my!!! Lee is so sweet here..nothing is too much trouble.. very reassuring.. and swoonworthy! He is so happy to see Amanda.. He really does look at Amanda here like he is in love with her. I think he completely utterly denies it to himself, doesn’t understand it and doesn’t recognise it.. but there’s ‘something in his eyes’ Amanda? she looks happy and grateful.. but I don’t see any earth shattering depth to her happiness with Lee here. She’s preoccupied.. Thoughts anyone??
Ugh! I do wish Lee would mention what he is working on!! I mean come on!! Amanda is always involved in what Lee is working on- even when it doesn’t appear so.. only this time, it really does appear so! The guy working on the security system was murdered and she was the last one to see him alive- other than the killer.. you’d think Lee would have asked about more than just the candles 😉
Amanda turns back to the house, then turns back to Lee to motion to him that he really needs to leave.
Interesting.. Lee accepts this is normal..
Lee quietly: bye. (He waves)
Amanda: right.
Lee leaves. Amanda lets out a big sigh and finishes bringing the clothes in.
It’s unintentional, but keeping Lee a secret from her family naturally sets up boundaries for them- I see them as not socialising outside of work much at this point.
Gettin tired of skulking in her backyard Lee? Wish you could have a more open place in her life??!! Lee is happy to be able to help Amanda at least.. and he seems to be in full Mr Fixit mode for her organising this great lawyer (no mention of money either – is he paying? we all know Amanda’s got none!). Lee is probably grateful that he can do this for her, and still see her regularly while he helps her- even if Amanda isn’t back at the agency.
I like to think that Amanda’s raise and how to fix that one has been quietly percolating in the background of Lee’s mind during this episode as he deals with the urgent Nabuti threat, and Amanda’s charges.. I think Lee wasn’t about to let Amanda leave – if he could make it possible for her to stay then he would do what he can.. Especially now Byron Jordan is dead – it seems even more like fate is telling Lee to help find a solution to Amanda’s financial troubles [White Knight Syndrome!!].. and get her back as his partner.. As more? well.. I don’t think romantic feelings are in the forefront of his mind right now..and he prefers it that way They are buried – he’s got enough to deal with I think! Thoughts anyone on this?? Love to hear from ya!!!! byeee for now!
"Just walk with me.." 
I love this scene in the kitchen between Dotty and Amanda for so many reasons. One of which is I love Dotty’s unfailing love and belief in her daughter. If only Lee could see what Dotty sees. But then again, she is her mother, so I guess she is quite biased. Another reason I love this is because of KJ and they way she delivers her lines and changes her voice – excellent!
Iwsod said:
I think this is one of the ways that Amanda has become such a good friend to Lee. I think she is the only one who he does share his stress with she most definitely supports him. This is one of the reasons why I think that Lee would have stopped seeing Amanda after she left the Agency. We see time and time again where Amanda is not privy to things because she is not cleared to know or doesn’t have the need to know. With Amanda gone from the Agency and not working with Lee on his non-security related cases, he wouldn’t be able to share anything with her. To me, the foundation of their relationship would have crumbled and crumbled fairly quickly because Lee always seems to be on a mission.
I think the scene in the backyard with Amanda taking in the wash is very sweet and lovely, but I really only see friendship here between these two. They are standing fairly far apart and there is no touching or awkward pauses or anything. They just seem really comfortable with each other. Things are back to normal – back to pre-Jordan Amanda and Lee. Lee is sooo flippin’ hunky though! I do think the writers could have made this scene much more but didn’t for a reason. Like in FR, they could have had a moment where Lee puts his arm around her to reassure her everything is going to be okay, etc. but there is none of that here. Yes, Amanda is very preoccupied, but Lee is right here and she is in trouble and yet they act like friends IMHO. This is telling to me.
LikeLike
great to hear your thoughts BJo. sounds like you are seeing Lee as having not as strong feelings for Amanda than I do. Though I still can’t quite label it ‘in love’ myself – when he looked at her with love in his eyes.. ugh.. I’m hopeless!
The no touching was interesting – thanks for pointing that out BJo, that is unusual for these two.. though they did touch in the jail cell.. but yeah usually Lee would reassure her (and maybe himself ) by touching her in some way. Hmm!
Maybe emotions are running too high for Lee? so he doesn’t reach out? Like how (oh dear was it Morley?? who was it??) someone suggested Lee’s surprising Amanda was because things are a little awkward at the moment, emotions are high.. and he felt unsure how to approach her, or.. maybe he also wanted to ease this tension a little…I don’t know..
but I’m loving hearing your thoughts BJo! you help me to look at things differently 🙂 Well, you all do! 🙂
I hope you are all enjoying these discussions, and feel free to say what you think and disagree on anything and everything! Love to hear everyone’s thoughts! byee!
LikeLike
I do think he has strong feelings for Amanda – I think I tend to really not count or consider as much the subconscious part that I know gets mentioned a lot. I wonder if that’s where the difference lies? I think there is a difference between something being subconscious versus realizing something is there but not knowing what it is or mistaking it for something else.
And to be honest it’s been a few days for me without SMK so to watch this scene in isolation more than usual makes it different – the context is less fresh in my mind. Maybe Amanda’s preoccupation is messing with my mind? Maybe because she’s so consumed with her trouble that she’s not able to think about and act toward Lee like she normally does so he is acting differently toward her as well? This scene just feels so different to me than so many of their other backyard scenes – like the one that is coming up.
LikeLike
All good BJo… I love to hear what you’re thinking! I wouldn’t be surprised if watching the scene in isolation or not is a part of it. I sometimes look back and think my mood totally influenced my view of something!
I put the difference down to Amanda’s preoccupation 🙂 yeah I think you’re on to something there!
LikeLike
I also notice when I’m getting screen caps for stats posts that it’s also very easy for me to see someting in a still picture from a scene that I want to see but it isn’t really there. If I want to see something, it’s much easier when the frame is still – than I can imagine a look or smile lasts waaay longer than it really does during the scene.
LikeLike
very true! I have to watch the episode in combination with selecting screen caps so I don’t misinterpret things 🙂
It’s amazing how many screen caps in isolation look like Lee or Amanda is asking for a kiss 😉 [note-yellow winky guy! tee hee]
LikeLike
” I think there is a difference between something being subconscious versus realizing something is there but not knowing what it is or mistaking it for something else.”
BJo, I like how you put this, however, I do think that is where Lee is actually. I think he realizes that there is something there, but he doesn’t know what it is or what to do with it and so I think he mistakes it for something else.
Iwsod, Can I refer to the line in a particular season 4 episode? Because that is the question I ask when I think about when Lee fell in love. I think he acknowledges that he fell in love before he realized he had fallen in love so I fell comfortable calling this, Lee falling in love here even though he would deny it until the cows came home. Actually I wonder if his denials would sound a bit thin to his own ears now? Yet he would still be invested in his denials at this stage I think. His behavior towards Amanda is very changed since the café scene in BO, I think…
LikeLike
Awh Morley.. you’re so sweet! 😉 I think we all know that line by heart and what episode that is.. even me who hasn’t watched season for in a long time! 🙂 go for it.. [let’s just not make a habit of it 😉 tee hee ]
I wonder if BJo is thinking of the subconscious slightly differently.. that if it is subconscious then you are by definition unaware of it? BJo? am I on the right track? quite possibly not! 😉
Subconscious/unconscious/preconscious in popular culture get a little confused so at times we can be thinking we are defining it the same way and we are not.
I wouldn’t disagree with BJo here if I’m understanding you correctly BJo.
If it is unconscious then you are unaware of it.
If you are aware of it.. but misunderstand it or misidentify it? … Hmm maybe it is preconscious?! lol..
LOL!!! I’m just getting into all your fab comments here now.. maybe this is not a bad time to define our terms we all use as these characters are about to hit major moments!!
I’m finding I agree with Kiwismh – where before I was thinking I didn’t!! – but I think it’s down to our slightly different definition of the odd word here and different emphasis..
That’s why I love to see wordy explanations fully explaining where you are at – haaaaa but I know I’m a bit weird!! 🙂
Where are all the comments from people who think either Lee or Amanda are ‘in love’ now?? gosh I hope I haven’t scared you away!!! I was hoping to hear of people’s different views.. so please if you see things differently do go for it and share where you are at 🙂 If you like!! 🙂
LikeLike
Ok lets see. Using these three terms, I think that Lee’s love for Amanda has been growing in his subconscious since SAAB. I think in BO at the Café it moved into his preconscious. I do not think it is conscious yet. Does that work?
I worte a bit about the “in love” question in a comment for post 14…
LikeLike
Reading you loud and clear 🙂 yeah.. I’m slowly writing a reply to post 14 comments and haven’t gotten there yet 😉 I keep getting distracted! 🙂
LikeLike
I think my take using these three terms would be subconscious since SAAB/SBTB – I think it’s both of these for me; preconscious might be as early as OOADP – but definitely BO at the latest and for sure not conscious yet.
LikeLike
Hah Iwsod! Can’t scare me away! I’m just particularly fuzzed over coz my body hates me so I can’t think but am avidly reading all! I love the thinking here regarding Lee. He’s so good at defining feelings to fit his comfort level. I still think Amanda’s sitting firmly on her Tupperware, saying, nope, no love here! No me, no sir! I do think she’s swimming up de Nile just coming from a different direction. dives back down her rabbit hole where the couch and some chocolate await
LikeLike
Glad to hear it Jule!!! I’d miss ya!!! 🙂
Stay tuned for the next post -I’m going to be changing things up a little on the blog! 🙂
LikeLike
Unconscious, subconscious and preconscious. This is getting pretty technical! I think I need a GDShot or some LIPlaid. 😉 Actually I’d never heard the term preconscious until I read your comment, iwsod…not quite sure what to make of it after I read the definition of it. It seems a little complicated. And I like to try to simplify things in my life because I don’t like complicated – it gives me headaches. Not unless it’s an engineering puzzle and then I tend to go all kinds of complicated.
Ok, back to business. To me, whether something is in Lee’s subconscious or if he is unconscious about it, it doesn’t really matter because I’m not sure how it affects his decisions. If he isn’t aware at all or the awareness is just under the surface but still hasn’t made it into his awareness, then how can it affect him? You had it right when you said that I was thinking subconscious meant that Lee was unaware of something. I do define it that way because it seems like you only realize it in hindsight. Sort of like Monday-morning quarterbacking. Which for this coming Monday will the mother of all MMQ days for this past American football season. But just like in the game of football, MMQ does you no good while the game is going on. I hope that makes sense even though I’m using an analogy based on a uniquely American sport.
For my eyes, I do think Lee is falling in love with Amanda. I know the rest of the story, so in hindsight with my MMQ eyes, I can look back and see what he can’t because he doesn’t know – he is unaware. Because he is unaware I label it “love as a friend” because I think in his mind that is what it is even though he may even hesitate to call it that. I do agree with all the denial comments about Lee that we throw out there liberally. It is lovely when he finally surrenders to it – although I wish Amanda’s reaction had been different – but I’ll say no more until we get there.
But for me and this blog and Lee’s journey, I think I try to stick to when I think Lee is aware of the fact that he does love her or is possibly falling in love with her because that is where he is right now in these episodes – he has no benefit of hindsight here. In my mind I think it not only matters in hindsight when he started to fall in love with her but also when he is consciously aware of it and therefore it affects his actions toward her.
I hope this all makes sense and doesn’t contradict what I’ve said in earlier posts. It is hard to keep it all straight.
LikeLike
Hiya BJo! ah good.. glad I was understanding you correctly 😉 thanks for clarifying that!
Yeah.. you know making things more complicated than they need to be does sound like a bad idea 😉 I like to keep it simple too.. though I suspect I define ‘simple’ differently 😉 haaa.
I talked about the ‘preconscious’ in DOA – not that I expect you to remember.. but if it is seen as gray area between unconscious and conscious, where things begin to become conscious- I don’t think that’s super complicated.
Everything you say sounds really good to me BJo – more or less we are looking at things the same way – not looking ahead with what happens to Lee in the story, and trying to experience the story the way the character is at present. We’re actually not too far apart on this at all! There’s just one difference between us here! 🙂
If I’ve understood what you’ve said correctly, you are saying when something is in a character’s unconscious, they are unaware of it, and therefore it is not yet relevant, because it does not affect their thoughts, actions, choices etc. Would that be accurate?
For me, and my understanding of the unconscious – the Freudian view is that the unconscious is below our level of awareness, but it does still influence our thoughts, our decisions and our actions in ways which we are unaware of. This is where it gets tricky 😉 but also really interesting!! -As this is where a lot of the action is happening for the characters at this stage (for me at least).
So, you may see discussing a character’s unconscious as overcomplicated and not yet relevant, I see it as an important piece of the puzzle here, which is relevant even though the character is not yet aware of it (because they are still influenced by it anyway).
If you are happy to stick to what the character is aware of that’s cool.. I think this is your maths/stats mind at work 🙂 LOL!! Which I love BTW! 🙂
Just give me a hand wave when I go off about the character’s unconscious (or subconscious- this is interchangeable but unconscious is the correct psychological term that I go with) if you like!
I’m amazed you posted this comment so late at night.. you are amazing!! I can’t think that late!! 🙂
Oh and sorry the whole football thing made my head spin and I got zero of it.. apologies! but based on everything else you wrote I think I got it! If not please let me know 🙂
LikeLike
Hmmm, are we possibly at risk of overthinking this? I mean, we are discussing a 30 year old TV show that only ran for 4 seasons, about people and situations that couldn’t possibly exist, and plot holes you could fly a Boeing through…
Nope, I think we’re okay. Pass the dark chocolate and Pinot Nori. 😉
LikeLike
I mean, Pinot Noir – and I haven’t even been drinking! Pinot Nori sounds like Japanese wine, if there be such a thing. 😀
Actually, I have fresh strawberries from my garden, and dark chocolate tonight. Sadly no Pinot Noir.
LikeLike
You grow strawberries kiwismh? How wonderful!!!
Strawberries and chocolate are the most wonderful combo! 🙂
LikeLike
Japanese wine? You mean, for example, rice wine (not sake) or plum wine? 😀 Though pinot does imply grapes… how about a plum and grape hybrid wine?
Pinot Nori sounds to me like a red wine to drink with sushi. Mmmmmmm… salmon sashimi… drool
LikeLike
Yes, it occurred to me after I had written this that the Japanese do make wine, but maybe not from grapes. Pinot Noir is a variety of red wine, which we produce particularly well in NZ.
LikeLike
Hey kiwismh – I was visiting some friends last weekend and was looking for some wine to bring them as a gift. I happened upon the pinot noir section and remembered this comment of yours, so I picked up a bottle of Kim Crawford PN from NZ. I’ve had the Kim Crawford Sauvignon Blanc and liked it so that’s why I picked that label of pinot. I enjoyed the wine very much but am wondering if there are other NZ pinot labels that you would recommend? Would you mind emailing me at bjosmk@yahoo.com or maybe start something at Ned’s? If you do something at Ned’s, please let me know here or in email because I don’t have much time to get over there as often as I would like. I’m not a wine snob at all, but I do appreciate a yummy wine and like to try different wines when I can.
LikeLike
Pinot Noir always reminds me of Guy Noir from A Prairie Home Companion
LikeLike
Rofl!! I don’t think it’s complicated to think that someone’s growing feelings for someone, which they are presently unaware of, could be influencing their current actions. It’s that simple.
The terms make it sound more complicated than it really is.
I think we are not crazy to think deeply about characters we love – because as Valerie just mentioned not long ago – the story itself is timeless 🙂
At least if I go overboard, then anyone else who may be tempted to can see it’s okay right?!
LikeLike
There is noooooooo way we are overthinking this! Not as long as the strawberries (yum Kiwish!), wine, and chocolate hold out!
LikeLike
That is what I love about this blog, other people that get carried away thinking too deeply about fictional characters. Haha! I am not the only one, yee haw!
LikeLike
I am glad that everyone is different in how they understand things because it just adds to the discussion. Sometimes I know I can go too deep, way to deep and I need someone to say, “hey! It is just not that deep!” And they would be right, well sometimes.
But other times I think it is important to dig down a bit, especially when we are talking about the heart, because that is such a complicated thing and so nuanced. How often do we not even understand our own emotions or reactions to people or situations? I know I often react and only after some thought I begin to understand myself, or deceive myself. Then I need someone else who knows me and loves me to help me understand myself. So often we respond to hurts with protective reactions that then become habits. In the case of a young boy like Lee this can become quite a handicap. As he grows it is almost like he becomes two people. We have mentioned that before, I think. And I think in a case like his, a person’s subconscious/ unconscious, pre conscious, what ever you want to call it, is a very powerful thing.
LikeLike
And yes, I do think the no touching and startling had to do with sorting out where things were. A lot of emotions had coursed under the bridge of their friendship since Lee had been Amanda’s partner, just a few days ago. Some hurt and disappointment, worry, a date, a murder charge, and Lee coming to her rescue. I don’t think it took long for them to sort it out but there is some space there. Actually I am glad Lee feels it. He is aware of a personal boundary that he wasn’t aware of until BO and he is still aware of it. That is good, I think, because crossing it then must be a bit premeditated from here on out…hmmm?
LikeLike
Morley, I really like what you say about being glad that Lee is aware of a personal boundary and that crossing it in the future must be a bit premeditated. Of course he has to become aware that he wants to cross it in order to premeditate on it…doesn’t he? In my mind he does 😉
LikeLike
Dotty takes everything in her stride, she rarely gets into a flap about anything, not even murder. I love her, she’s such a great character 🙂
LikeLike
I do enjoy these moments between Dotty and Amanda. Dotty just can’t comprehend it. She knows Amanda would never commit murder, so it takes her a few moments to process it. Yes, I agree that Amanda focuses on what is next and necessary in order to get through the emotional turmoil. (Case in point – she completed Lee’s report in Burn Out while trying to decide what was happening with Lee – is he on a case, is he actually burned out?)
I do think Lee’s little “surprise” had a lot to do with reassuring Amanda that things were back to normal and would be okay. I do think he is very happy to be of assistance here (WKS), and is planning to take care of the bill. I also think he’s been wondering how to help Amanda financially, probably when he’s home and quiet. He definitely has a need to be Mr. Fix-it in her life. In addition, I believe he’s beginning to wonder why that is – love is cooking on the back burner, but it’s just been turned on low and hasn’t come to a boil yet. (Amanda’s got hers in a very slllooww cooker.)
I’m in agreement that he’s not dating right now. He’s looking at the kind of relationship he wants and trying to decide on the kind of woman he wants in that relationship. He’s beginning to believe that long-term might be possible, but he’s not there yet. Amanda is firmly fixed as close friend, but he’s denying anything closer right now. (She needs a good guy who can give her what she needs. He may even have considered Byron as a possibility, but he’s also relieved he’s not – Amanda wasn’t pressured, and she immediately said it was “business, just business” – he just doesn’t know why he’s relieved.)
Okay, I’ve gone on long enough. These last two episodes have been such fun to walk through. I’m going to miss them as we move forward. I’ll have to come back and visit them.
LikeLike
Yes, the daisies do seem very sad (especially the one that’s Dotty’s cutting, which has a bent stem–LOL!
Amanda can’t keep things from her mother… but successfully does! 😀
“I know you do but what about your finger prints?” for some reason makes me think of the PAYPWIPs from Pinky and the Brain. (Pinky are you pondering what I’m pondering? I think so Brain, but <some totally off the wall utterance>, e.g., PAYPWIP? I think so Brain, but if the plural of mouse is mice, wouldn’t the plural of spouse be spice? -or- PAYPWIP? I think so, Brain, but what if the hippopotamus won’t wear the beach thong?) Hmmm… I digress.
“Well, did you tell them you didn’t do it?” Ohhh, things are so simple in Dotty-land. I wanna live there!!!
Yes, Amanda does seem to be very practical and internal list oriented… get arrested check get out of jail check get washing in check get lawyer…
Love the smiles Lee gives Amanda at the washing line. 🙂 The somewhat cheeky first one and then the swoony ones later.
At this point, I don’t think that Lee consciously loves her. He has some strong emotions going on, but doesn’t–as you say–understand or recognise them as love. He really is still a boy growing up, emotion-wise, and although he presumably thought he loved Eva back in the day, I think we can all guess what he was thinking with then. The feelings that have been stirring for Amanda are foreign–and scary–to him. Poor guy. 😦
LikeLike
I was reading a book to my 12 year old today and a passage in it reminded me of how I think Lee is reacting to this love that he is beginning to be aware of feeling for Amanda. The main character is a young woman who has had no nurture since she was born and she has just become engaged to a very nice young man (the book is actually a bit of a ghost story and historical fiction called The Sherwood Ring. It would make an awesome movie )
Anyway the young man, Pat says to her (Peggy)”You’re not used to being happy, are you, Peggy? Is that what the trouble is?”
“I suppose it is. You don’t understand, Pat. I know it is silly. But to be so completely happy, all of a sudden, when you’ve never actually been happy for a minute in your whole life- I don’t quite know what to do with it. It can’t be real. I keep feeling that it will go away if I touch it.”
That just screamed Lee to me, No wonder Lee doesn’t zoom in on a relationship with Amanda right away.
LikeLike
This is why I love “childrens” and “young adult” books! They are often full of distilled wisdom and beautiful lessons about people and life. Like Morley!
LikeLike
“It can’t be real. I keep feeling that it will go away if I touch it.”
Yep–definitely sounds like Lee!
Ditto Jule’s like.
LikeLike
Very true KC.. Lee thought it was Love with Eva.. so glad he now knows it wasn’t love!
Yeah! I want to live in that world too! 😉 Wasn’t there an episode where baddies were up to no good and Amanda asks everyone ‘Well why don’t we stop them?’
and Francine responds: ‘Now why didn’t I think of that?!’
Was it Playing Possum? not sure.. but this line of Dotty’s reminded me of it – Amanda has moved on from that sort of simplistic thinking which the sheltered and naïve can have the luxury of I guess..
LikeLike
For some reason I think that line was in Times are a Changin’, but I am not sure, could be Possum…
LikeLike
Just watched Times last night. I think the line is in there, when Billy, Francine, Lee and Amanda are walking in the Arkaden (#22 on your map). 🙂
LikeLike
Oh cool! thanks LASinLA!!! that was bugging me!! 🙂 BTW – it was Claudia’s lovely map! she did a great job 🙂 [Hiya Claudia!]
LikeLike
I don’t remember which episode it was… 😦
I think it’s sad that Amanda loses her innocence… 😦 However, she retains her good and kind heart… and really had to lose the complete innocence to get closer to Lee… so it’s all OK in the end. 🙂
LikeLike
Hear hear Cindy.. Dotty and Amanda are very believable as mother and daughter.. lovely! Yeah it was a relief to see Amanda finally able to confide something to her mother!
Hi Kiwismh! Ah.. we seem to be agreeing alot lately kiwismh! Not sure how that happened haaaaa 🙂 [kidding! 😆 ]
yes undead byron is creepy! 🙂
kiwismh wrote:
I’m loving this kiwismh! I agree, Lee and Amanda would be in different places.. interesting.. I think Lee has always been the one to seek out Amanda – it is very rare for Amanda to seek out Lee (if she witnessed a murder and the police don’t believe her kind of thing!- I’m thinking Amanda rarely seeks out Lee and his help – she just ends up getting it anyway because she’s at the agency no? Or she’s in trouble and it’s connected to the agency! Would you say this is accurate at this point?
I feel Lee inserts himself into Amanda’s life – and it is very rarely the other way around. Amanda seems to always let Lee come to her – in whatever capacity that is.. A bit like what was mentioned about ‘if you love someone set them free’ – (who said that? sorry!) Amanda never makes Lee feel trapped by her. He is more trapped in a way by his own connection with her – which is not her fault 😉 tee heee..
Hmm actually this is interesting in light of what we saw in Burn Out and Saviour – as these involved one of the very few times Amanda sought him out proactively.. and inserted herself into his life. maybe?? Interesting!
Oh well I’ve gone off on a tangent – sorry!
So true kiwismh– Amanda’s day had been harrowing, she could have done without the surprise! 😉 but she smiled and didn’t seem too upset by it- and I’ve missed these little moments. I do enjoy playful Lee 🙂 a lot! 😎
Do you write fan fic kiwismh? have you seen the fan fic thread on Nedlindger’s? It’s true that it’s silly Dotty couldn’t guess – I figured it was a case of her not seeing it because it wasn’t what she expected to see – we see what we expect to see. Though I think Amanda leaving IFF and going to work for a security company was a bit red flag! Could have given Dotty food for thought!
yes Morley your explanation of why we rarely see them anymore sounds great to me! okay, I’ll put it down to nervousness about how to approach Amanda now she is no longer agency!
Oh wait! Actually LASinLA I really like your idea that it is a sign that it is back to normal for them now also! LOL!!
True LASinLA, why didn’t Dotty suggest a lawyer- very weird! Contact Joe? Ohhh is he a lawyer? I don’t think we know that at this stage – I think all we know is he left. zippo joe!!!
Hey Jule – indeed.. we can absolutely revel in Lee’s heartstopping smile!! 🙂 You see something in Lee’s eyes too huh! 🙂
Valerie wrote:
Valerie I especially enjoyed this part of your comment! 🙂
Yeah it’s interesting to think that maybe Lee in his own way does this too- by focusing on the problems at hand..
I’ve been thinking Amanda moves on to the next thing that needs to be done and that is her way of coping – but Lee seems to do this too- only I haven’t been perceiving it in the same way. With Lee I’ve been seeing it as part of his denial, maybe I’m doing his character a disservice here.. while I do think that Lee is in heavy denial about his growing feelings for Amanda – maybe he too is coping as best as he can by focusing on the practicalities at hand –just like Amanda does.. Lee just needs time to work through things. I’ll cut Lee some slack 😉 he is managing to show he cares for Amanda in the way he is best able to at present- using his helping love language.. I’ll go with that 🙂
Thoughts anyone?
Morely wrote:
Love this Morley! 🙂 This works for Lee too no?? that his getting the job done leaves loose ends that he knows he will eventually need to deal with?
I do see Amanda as more emotionally intelligent as Lee – but it’s true she does put off some difficult feelings and issues for now doesn’t she.. I guess no one is perfect 🙂 not even Amanda 😉
Ahhh Morley and Valerie – I see you’ve taken up the Lee the teenager idea – I remember this idea started with Raffie – Ohhhh Raffie??? where are you Raffie???!!! We miss you!!! Do stop by when you can (no pressure!) but we love to hear from you when you can stop by! 🙂 Lee the maturing Teen is a great description of him huh.. would you say his emotional age is now ohhh about 16? 😉
Regarding Lee’s surprise! : Haaa yeah I guess Lee has better manners now, so it naturally had to fall by the wayside this gag.. we enjoyed it while it lasted (though there is one more I can think of to go! 🙂 )
Okay I’ll sign off now.. eek! sorry to bombard you with all my comments at once, I had lots of great ideas to catch on – and whooo loving this new toy of quoting – makes it much easier to respond to many comments together 🙂 which for me is ideal! and I hope for you? Is not too annoying 😉 byeee for now!
LikeLike
The 16 year old boys in Australia must be more mature than the ones in Canada. I’ve dated 26 year olds that were way more immature than Lee at this point. 😉
LikeLike
Yes, I was trying to figure out Lee’s emotional age. I have 12, 15, 18 and 20 year old sons and right about now Lee seems to be tottering between the behavior I see from my 15 (almost16) year old and the 18 year old. But I think the poor guy is on the fast track to maturation. My 20 year old is falling in love for the first time and I can see Lee quickly approaching his maturation level.
I know many middle aged men who have never matured emotionally. It takes a very brave person to do that, bravery and a lot of love. That is why I love this show!
LikeLike
Whahahaa Cindy! well it could be an indication of how mature 16 yr old men are, or of how immature I think Lee is 😉
I do think Lee still very much has a ways to go! Okay.. I’d say 18 yrs old- max! 🙂
I say less than 20 because Lee has many ghosts in his past which he still needs to deal with – that maybe a 20 year old doesn’t need to deal with.. you know?
But once Lee fully commits and catches on – he makes fast work of it 😉
Very true Morley! some people never learn and mature! Indeed, this story of maturation and growth is one of the things I love most about smk too!!!!
LikeLike
Agree Morley, I’ve been unfortunate enough to know a few middle aged men who don’t seem to have matured much beyond the age of 13. Occasionally there is a thin (usually wafer thin) veneer of “let’s be friends and get to know each other” but it’s pretty obvious what they’re really after. Ugh, I must sound cynical. Don’t mind me. That’s why I enjoy SMK – a world where first there is a deep and enduring friendship that is the foundation for an equally deep and enduring love.
Friendship and courtship as a precursor to romance seem to be well and truly out of fashion now. But women themselves may be partly to blame for that. I’m no prude by any means but with the way many young (and middle aged) women behave these days, it’s no wonder guys don’t think they need to bother with courtship anymore.
Don’t get me started – this could turn into an ugly, cynical full scale rant.
LikeLike
You mentioned courtship, and I know you asked us not to get you started, but you got me thinking…. I was thinking about what I love about the Jane Austin books and other older classics, and I realized that one of the elements that I am drawn to about those stories is that a man or a woman would not consider the person they are falling in love with “theirs” until they had gotten engaged. It was as if they could not claim their heart (or their body) until the had made a promise and they even had no right to ask until they had walked a clear path of proving themselves and being properly prepared for such a commitment. I think there are elements of that in SMK. I know the antique plan had its deficits, but I am not sure that our modern culture has improved much with our current model. But SMK got it pretty close to right, I think.
LikeLike
Kiwish and Morley, both of your comments resonate with me! I love this quote from Persuasion:
Always seemed, that in my life at least, to find true love, I had to find a true honest friend first.
LikeLike
Like, like, like!
LikeLike
I’ve never read any Jane Austin as I always had the impression it was just mushy over the top romantic stuff. I will read some before I make a judgement. I have read Wuthering Heights by Emily Bronte many times – which is in no sense a story about healthy relationships but it appeals to my sense of gritty reality. The mix of passion and obsession is compelling, not to mention the appeal of the characters (good and bad) and the quite complex elements of inheritance law that Emily Bronte wove into the story as Heathcliff wrests control of Wuthering Heights and Thrushcross Grange from those he believes have wronged him in the past. The fact that such a gritty tale was written in the late 1840’s by a relatively young, unmarried woman adds to the fascination. I’m not much of a fan of the movies that have been made as they miss out so much of the story and the actors don’t really capture the essence of the characters. The one exception to this would be Ralph Feines in the all too abridged 1992 version who I think captures Heathcliff perfectly – he is a fine actor and the only one who has been able to capture Heathcliff’s violent and ruthless nature, yet maintain the viewer’s sense of sympathy towards the character.
Whoops, way off topic with this. Sorry Iwsod.
LikeLike
Hi kiwismh! This is a very interesting subject – but yes.. maybe JWWM isn’t the place for this discussion to expand – feel free to head over to Nedlindger’s and start a Jane Austen Thread or Classic Literature Thread 🙂 There is a Pride and Prejudice thread but really – we could do with a general thread for this – gotta run – byeeee!
LikeLike
I was going to invite you over to Ned’s for talk about the classics kiwismh, but I see Iwsod beat me to it. I would love to discuss it if you would like. It is one of my other favorite topics 😉
LikeLike
I love it Morley! yes I wouldn’t want to be a woman in those times. but that aspect of the story is simply gorgeous. Do we have a Jane Austen thread at Ned’s? we need one! 🙂
edited typo-
LikeLike
oh yeah!!! I hear ya!!! 😉
All that friendship gets neglected these days..
It is one of the most wonderful aspects of smk isn’t it.. that it isn’t just BAM! they are in love!! and I refuse to believe that Amanda could fall in love with a petulant, selfish, emotionally stunted (but super gorgeous!) spy- no no no.. That spy grew into a wonderful man – and then Amanda truly fell in love with him. [This may very well be me seeing what I want to see in the characters, and I don’t really mind that! 🙂 ]
LikeLike
Love the new banner and side photo Iwsod!
[iwsod edited-no worries Jule! 😉 ]
LikeLike
Great! glad you like them!! 🙂
LikeLike
That is the episode I am writing stories for right now 🙂
LikeLike
I think I like Morley’s idea of the not-sure-how-to-approach-Amanda Lee better than what I said about him getting back to normal with the surprise pop-ups. The thought that he has matured past this, but now reverts to it in a season of uncertainty makes a lot of sense. He is feeling uncertain, so he makes Amanda feel off-kilter, too, to cover his own feelings. Glad he gets over the need to do that!
LikeLike
Yes we do agree on a lot Iwsod but we’re just coming at this from two different perspectives. Anyway, Kiwis and Aussies are pretty good at getting on together, eh!
I wouldn’t say Amanda would not seek him out if they were not working together but it is much harder to imagine a scenario where she could do this comfortably except in the course of a case that may involve the Agency and Jordon Securities. It would seem a bit awkward phoning him every other day or even every week just to say “Hi” and “How’s it going?” unless both of them had overtly agreed they wanted to carry on their personal friendship regardless of them not working together any more. Are they at the point where they would admit to each other they wanted to actively carry on their friendship? I think so, but it would be an interesting conversation – I’m sure they would both initially come up with some “cover story” to justify carrying on their association outside of the work environment but eventually they would become comfortable enough to accept “We’re friends, we don’t need an excuse to stay in touch”. Ugh, thank god Byron’s gone and we don’t have to tease out that what if scenario anymore. Must have been a hard day at work, I almost wrote myself into a corner with that lot.
I don’t write fan fiction mainly because I just don’t have time and I’m not sure I could nail the characters correctly. I would really like to re-work some of the episodes to make them more believable and close a few of those gaping plot holes though. I’ve read most of the SMK fan fiction on the net in the last 3 years – most of it is pretty mediocre although I always admire the fact that people have been brave enough to try their hand at it. But there are also some real gems, most I think written by people who have that rare combination of true writing talent, the ability to devise a good story, and a really good knowledge and appreciation of the characters.
[iwsod edited typo as requested 🙂 ]
LikeLike
So here in Houston, TX we got a “snow” day on Friday…and by snow day I mean the temperature went below 30 degrees F so they cancelled school, so no work for me! So my wish came true and I got time off to catch up on the site! Woohoo! Anyway…I definitely don’t think Lee and Amanda are “in love” yet — but I do think they love each other. I think Lee likes finally letting someone in enough that they rely on him and he likes being there for Amanda — it is a way he is comfortable showing how much she means to him
LikeLike
I do love the conversation between Dotty and Amanda as well. The way KJ says “Murder” makes me laugh too. And their facial expressions and the way they both bend their heads together. It really is a great scene.
I think Lee is so giddy to be able to help Amanda he can’t help popping up. But I was also wondering if it was because he wasn’t sure how to approach his first arrival at her house as a non business partner. He did that popping up thing before he was really comfortable with his friendship with her didn’t he? I am thinking of TGTN and Times and all the other times. I don’t know just a thought. Maybe it is like the teenage boy who isn’t quite sure how to talk to the girl so he gets silly or obnoxious, or in Lee’s case he sneaks up on her and startles her. Like you mentioned we haven’t seen him do that in a while, I wonder if that is why?
I do think he is really treasuring just being in her presence and being helpful to her. I think he may be rather aware of how much he has come to need her in his life. Poor guy, I bet he isn’t quite sure what to do with that though, except help the girl with her present legal issues. Good thing though she has something for him to help her with, otherwise I’m still not sure what the guy would have done. Needing someone is not something Lee Stetson is used to, is it?
LikeLike
Sometimes I think Lee would pop up to keep Amanda a bit off balance and assert his senior agent status. He knew she didn’t like it, but he would do it anyway. This time he doesn’t so much pop up as stand there. But I agree that he probably wasn’t sure how to approach her and since he’s still in emotional growth he’s probably at the teen phase of how to deal with his emotions.
LikeLike
Dotty and Amanda do have a great relationship and I’m sure that Amanda does feel better to be able to be open with her about the new job. Amanda was still trying to keep the IFF cover story under wraps when she accidentally referred to it as the Agency when she was leaving to turn in her papers and supposed ID. Dotty assumed talent agency. But they are great together and so supportive of each other. And being Amanda’s mother she knows as well as Lee that Amanda didn’t murder anyone. I love how she asks Amanda if she told them that she didn’t do it.
Lee is just so wonderful here. He makes a point of telling Amanda that he’s going to get her out of this. I think he says that as much to reassure himself as he does to reassure Amanda. Lee knew he couldn’t help before and it almost cost him Amanda’s daily presence in his life. He’s not about to let that happen again. These last few looks of his are just so divine. You can see some adoration of Amanda there. It’s like they take turns as to who is actually paying attention to the other in that way and the other seems to be focused on something (or someone) else at the time.
Amanda can definitely move on from her troubles to focus on what she needs to take care of. I wonder if that is how she handled the dissolution of her marriage. She had two young children to take care of and she knew she had to move on and do what she needed to do. I would think that that is how she has dealt with her feelings for Lee. Once that crush was under control she moved on with the practicalities of the job she had and the practicalities of what Scarecrow was like. Lee is on his way to fully emerging so she’ll deal with that when he finally arrives.
I think this is the last time that Lee does the startling thing. I used to like it how he would also disappear suddenly and Amanda would comment how rude he was. I really liked in The Times They Are a Changin’ when Amanda did the disappearing and turned the tables on Lee.
LikeLike
I like what you said, Valerie, especially in those middle two paragraphs.
I think you and Iwsod have something there about Amanda be able to focus on what needs to be done in the moment. It is a great coping mechanism, but it may leave a few emotional loose ends that could ambush her a bit later on, I would think, because she doesn’t allow enough time to really get closure. Part of that may just be the tyranny of the urgent for a mom of young kids though.
I like the way Amanda and Lee have moments of really noticing one another while the other is oblivious to it. Kind of allows a deep slow growth of their love and care for each other.
LikeLike
Like! Valerie and Morley, what you say resonants well with me!
LikeLike
I just love Dotty and Amanda together! They are funny and heartwarming at the same time. And I am with you Iwsod, I would be haunting the backyard just in case Lee wanted to stop by :LOL: I agree when you say, “He really does look at Amanda here like he is in love with her. I think he completely utterly denies it to himself, doesn’t understand it and doesn’t recognize it.. but there’s ‘something in his eyes’” Yep, my reaction exactly! Personally, I feel that Amanda is knee deep in trying to move away from her tupperware collection and now the murder investigation is distracting her a bit. Yep, just a little…. That’s okay, we can revel in Lee’s heartstopping smile while Amanda is preoccupied. runs off to get her helmet
LikeLike
yup, I like this too, Jule!
LikeLike
Lee seems to enjoy startling Amanda as another sign that things are “back to normal” between them — or at least that he wants them to be that way even though she isn’t working at the Agency right now. Amanda does seem distracted.
I’m kind of surprised that Dotty doesn’t suggest a lawyer during their conversation. Surely she knows one. As a matter of fact, why doesn’t she suggest contacting Joe? Ok, I know. Because that would seriously complicate the episode. Do we even know that Joe is lawyer at this point in the series?
LikeLike
ROFL! I wonder if Amanda would notice the resemblance between Joe and Tucker then!
LikeLike
You’re right Iwsod, Amanda has never been one to dwell on what can’t be fixed or can’t happen. This is why I see her earlier in this episode able to move on with her life accepting that Lee can’t return the depth of feeling she has for him.
Yes, Lee is now overtly in “we” mode. He has always been concerned for Amanda’s well-being since day 1 but would never have shown it as overtly as he does now.
Again I agree with you Iwsod, they are both too connected now not to have continued their association even if Amanda had continued working for Byron – I was going to put undeadByron but that sounded scary 8
I think it is Lee primarily who would’ve pro-actively sought reasons to see Amanda and he would justify it around work or security issues, or just checking in to see how she’s going with the new job. Amanda would welcome still having his friendship and the opportunity to spend time together as friends but being in coping and moving on mode, I don’t think she would have so actively found reasons to seek out Lee. She would be very aware of maintaining a healthy platonic friendship with Lee and not dwelling on her deeper feelings for him and the futility of hoping for something more. Amanda has always had healthier coping mechanisms than Lee, but he is fast learning to emulate her and realise that his past coping mechanisms (work, women, denying feelings and 30 years of buried grief) are not healthy.
Not sure it was a good idea for him to “surprise” her by hiding behind the washing given the harrowing day she has already had. Like the woman needs another fright today! The beginning of that scene has always bugged me.
Love how Dotty copes with crazy stuff – explained and unexplained – that goes on around Amanda and her “work”. I always thought that the show would have been more interesting if they could somehow have shown that Dotty cottoned on to the fact that Amanda was clearly not just walking dogs and watering plants (her cover in the first part of S1) or working for a documentary film company (which became her cover once she started working regularly for IFF). I always imagine Dotty knowing (but keeping it to herself) at least from the early stages of S2 that Amanda is involved in some sort of secret government work. I assume Dotty has lived most of her life in Virginia or around the DC area and she would be aware that DC is crawling with people engaged in national security work which necessarily involves secrecy. Amanda’s behaviour and absences are just too oddball for Dotty not to have suspected something at this point. However, some would say that’s going along an AU tangent but I just think it would’ve added another interesting dimension to the SMK universe. I definitely have an AU scenario in my mind for the 4th season but that is a discussion for much later down the track 😉
I always seem to write too much. Will leave it there and enjoy reading everyone else’s comments.
LikeLike
Hi kiwismh – My initial reaction when I read your comment and iwsod’s reply above to the point about Lee continuing on to seek out Amanda but not the other way around was to think that I didn’t see it the same way. But then I read on and re-read it and what iwsod said and I’m not sure what I think.
I can see what you guys are saying on one hand, but on the other, I think I saw more regret on the part of Amanda that she was leaving the Agency. And like we saw in Saviour and Burn Out, Amanda views Lee as a friend and as such I see her finding a way to seek him out to continue to nurture him and try to take care of him. I do think it would be in connection with Jordan securities. Although I also do wonder if she wouldn’t invite him over for Thanksgiving again like she did in TFT now that she isn’t working with him. He could play the part of the IFF employee in front of Dotty and the kids if he were to ever accept, which I’m not sure that he would. Which leads me to why I don’t think Lee would be the one to pursue her oustide of work. Her status as a mother and her lifestyle do not jibe with Lee’s. I agree that he is maturing and growing and is no longer truly satisfied with the Randi’s of the world, but I don’t he is ready for a mother with young kids.
This could go so many ways, it is fun to think about and discuss it. I need to think through some different scenarios in my head and see where I end up overall. It is a great point to ponder though!
LikeLike
I love the exchange between Amanda and Dotty here, very believable (maybe because Dottty reminds me of my mom here — not that I’ve ever been arrested for murder!)
You raised an excellent point, it must of been such a relief for Amanda to share with Dotty what happened to her that day. She really has no one she can confide in from her non-agency life what she’s been doing the last couple of years.
LikeLike
No murder chargers recently Cindy? ROFL Good for you 😉 Me either, although Dotty is remenicent of my mother too.
LikeLike