It’s time for some Vigilante Mothers! whoo hoo!
Hey does anyone know if this title is a pun of some kind? A reference to something else? I can’t think of anything..Though looking at the script on Petra’s site, it seems the episode was originally called ‘The Spy Next Door’. A huge thank you to Jaemie for transcribing this episode as a part of Operation Sandstorm– Jaemie you’re amazing!!! and have made my life blogging about it soooo much easier! Bless you!!! Hope you stop by some time and take a bow! 
Well, on to the episode. It starts at an ordnance lab in Oregon..
Aha! Well this sign says no admittance- not ‘positively no admittance’ (Saviour? 
Spiderweb?).. sooo guess you can go in! 
Looks like this lovesick Ms Waterston has come under the spell of a very sneaky, 
smooth man..wearing what looks like a baby’s beanie!!
She seems to be helping him steal what he wants.
She feeds the guard a line about her security card getting stuck
… the guard has to input a pin code into a number pad- the Beanie Burglar (Robert Castille) is watching the guard through binoculars and takes note of the code. 
ROFL at how the guard punches in the code – it’s almost like he knows someone is watching him and he wants them to see the code! haaaa!
Castille waits for this girl in her lab. She returns and 
quickly walks over to Castille for a passionate kiss.
LOL he doesn’t seem to be very into her….
Castille calls an end to the kiss – they have work to do!
Castille: We have to hurry.
Ms Waterston gets on with it! She walks over to the safe and inputs the combination to open it – Hey you can see here she has a ring on her ring finger – is she married? Or did Castille get engaged to her? Ugh!
Castille takes off his backpack and opens it. Ms 
Waterston removes a silver canister from the safe and takes out a plastic bag containing some pellets of some kind. She immediately 
hands it to Castille.
Castille wordlessly accepts the bag, smirking. 
He turns to walk out.
Ms Waterston: I’ll meet you at my place in an hour.
Castille turns back and states flatly: I’m afraid not.
He pulls out a gun from his open backpack and points it 
at her. Ms Waterston is shocked.
Castille shoots her in the stomach coldly and leaves.
[LOL nice try but it looks like she got shot where she was holding the canister in front of her! Flying Lettuce KC!!! this one looks brutal! ]
He is one cold dude.. he gives her barely a glance and leaves. Ugh!!!! Get him Scarecrow!! I loathe this guy already! Just what was Castille saying to this woman to make her go along?? Was she a baddie?? or just a victim?? [yes rhetorical Questions for now! ]
Moving on to IFF, Amanda is parked out the front. Interesting! The scene opens with Duffy walking into the bullpen and then it focuses on Lee – Duffy is very visible these days!
Lee: Well, Amanda, the voucher looks to be in order.
Amanda: Good.
Lee: I’ll see if I can get Billy to sign it this morning. Okay?
Amanda: Thank you… 
…I have plans for the money.
Lee : Oh? 
[Amanda has pockets on her skirt.. is this the first time we see this?? now she can play magic pockets too! ]
Francine: You know, maybe I should start, uh, claiming some gas mileage. I could buy some extra clothes…
[typical- so Francine doesn’t bother with vouchers and claiming her mileage eh..]
Lee: With your tastes?…
…At twenty cents a mile, you’d have to drive coast to coast to buy a blouse.
[Love how Lee looks at Amanda here and includes her in his joke]
Amanda and Lee have a little laugh. Francine seems to take it in her stride..she can’t really argue with it- it’s true! Probably proud she has expensive taste
Amanda: We have a new fund for our community action committee.
[Typical Francine- at this, her interest in the conversation drops! so she moves on]
Lee: Oh, community action?
Amanda: Yeah, a group of us have gotten together to 
fight pollution and toxic waste dumping, things like that. It’s the mothers in our 
neighbourhood, so we call ourselves MSE. It’s Mothers for a Safe Environment.
Lee: Well, that sounds good.
[I think ‘Vigilante Mothers’ sounds much cooler!!
BTW- did Byron wear that tie?? Hmm I might leave checking this to tie patrol – how’s it going KC? ]
Amanda: Yeah, I think it is good. They’ve elected me their spokesperson.
Lee: Congratulations.
[I swear Lee gives Amanda a little look up and down here as he almost bows! ]
Amanda: Thanks a lot.
Lee and Amanda share a laugh. 
In the background, we see Duffy exit Billy’s office. Billy stands in his doorway behind him. Lee calls to Duffy.
Lee: Uh, Frank?.. [-whooo so it’s Frank Duffy- okay!] (Lee lowers his voice) …Is Billy busy? [‘busy’ being code for : is he wearing his cranky pants now?!]
Before Frank can answer, Billy bellows from his office doorway.
Billy: Scarecrow, Francine! My office! Now!
[Why does he never call Francine by her code name?? whoooo wouldn’t it be hilarious if her code name was: ‘Francine’! ]
Frank: Crazed might be a better word.
[Okay, Billy has on his crazy pants! ]
Francine turns back to lee to give him an uh oh! look.. [Hey at least it’s not Retzig – he was really really bad ]
Amanda turns to Lee concerned about her voucher.
Lee: Yeah, I’ll get him to sign it, don’t worry.
Whoa!!!! I do believe Lee just winked at Amanda here! 
He screws up his face.. and then gives a bit of wink.. honest! go check it out!!
Just make sure you have your helmet on Jule!
Love love love this little smile Lee gives Amanda here.. pleased with himself he can help her with Billy!
Amanda: Okay, thanks a lot. I’ll wait for ya.
Lee: Good. [There goes Lee Mr Fixit yet again! He does love to do things for Amanda what a sweetie he is nowadays!]
Francine: You roared?
Billy: Can it, Francine. [ahhh sweet music! ]
Lee: Hey, Billy, what’s up?
Billy: Early this morning at the chemical ordnance facility near Portland, a full canister of
C-12 was stolen. [whoooo!! Not C-12???!!!!!! argh!!!!]
Francine: C-12? What is that? Poison? Explosive?
[Holey Moley-what is Francine wearing?! I’ll come back to this!! ]
Billy: C-12 is one half of CX-12, nerve gas. Here.
Billy hands Francine papers, and Lee leans in to look at them also – putting Amanda’s vouchers on Billy’s desk as he does so.
LOL looks like BB flubs it here and knocks over Billy’s photo frame.. but stays in character- he uses it as an example of his focus on the papers- he absently puts the frame to rights.
Francine reads: Odourless, colourless. CX-12 attacks 
the central nervous system, entering the bloodstream through the victim’s skin. Blurred vision, numbness, paralysis. Death in less than ten seconds. [10 seconds? it should be 12 seconds- it’s CX-12! ]
Lee: Yeah, we ran into this nasty stuff about six months ago on a covert anti-terrorist operation.
Billy: And we were lucky enough to get a hold of it and bring it back here.
Francine: But you said only half was in Oregon?
Billy: For safety, the compound has to be broken 
down into two component parts, and then stored separately while our chemists look for a way to destroy the stuff once and for all. If we can just find the neutralizing agent, this 
can never be a weapon again.
Francine: Where’s the other half?
Billy: Here, Bethesda. [conveniently close for the agency to protect no?! ] Those crystals by themselves are dangerous, but together… 
Lee: So, we can expect a run at the Bethesda laboratories.
Billy: Yes. And whoever hit that lab in Oregon knew 
exactly what they wanted and just where to find it.
Francine: Which means inside help.
Billy: You got it. And whoever did it is playing for 
keeps because they killed their accomplice. There are only five people who have hands-on access to X-12 crystals here. I’m assigning 
an agent to each and every one of them. I want day and night blanket surveillance. 
Now Francine, I want you to take Doctor Ann Mallory, the head chemist at the 
facility. [female boss? Awesome!!] …And Scarecrow, you take Leonard Fletcher, Mallory’s assistant.
Lee: Leonard Fletcher, huh. Says here he lives on Braden Avenue in Arlington.
Billy: So?
Lee: Well, that’s about a block away from where Amanda lives. Which gives me a great idea. Hold on a second.
Lee stands up to get Amanda.. while Billy and Francine share a look!!
What do you think this look means? I’ve shared my thoughts below.. In general it seems Billy and Francine have noticed a change in Lee towards Amanda.
We hear Lee call to Amanda across the bullpen: Amanda? Would you come here for a minute?
As Amanda makes her way to the office, we get a close up on Billy and Francine’s reactions as they silently communicate with each other about Lee and Amanda The wide shot and then the close up telling us the same thing?? Hmm seems the show is at pains to tell us: Billy and Francine have taken note- of what?? Do tell!!
Amanda : Hello, sir.
Billy: Good morning, Amanda.
I’ll stop here for the moment before we get into this next big moment – hang in there!!! It is worth waiting to explore it without me rushing through it!!! This post is getting tooooo big
Comments from iwsod:
-The Butler!
Firstly, there goes Smk with it’s reusing actors again.. Daniel Davis (The Butler in The Nanny) gets reused as a character later – but this reuse is best discussed when we get to that episode. (All the World’s a Stage)
-Episode order Alert!
Okay guys- all hands on deck!!!! I’d love to discuss this as we walk through this episode.. is this episode before MBF or after?? Which is the season finale? Which order works best overall?
The opening dialogue about Amanda’s vouchers, to me feels like it should not be after MBF and her raise. The dialogue still has the vibe that Amanda is counting her pennies. Which we saw referred to a number of times before MBF- so this can be another instance of foreshadowing. I can’t remember hearing anything of Amanda’s finances again until the suicide pact between two things (The boy who could be King) we’ll have to keep an eye out for anymore references to money in future eps… but to me.. it seems like after MBF, it is not raised very often anymore..though it was raised often in the lead up to MBF.
Then again, the dialogue could mean nothing and simply be a segue into Amanda discussing MSE! What do you all think?
Plus Francine’s line about buying more clothes seems out of place.. she was always a clothes horse – but after her wardrobe cut- you’d think she’d be making reference to the cut here. Is her line that maybe she should claim mileage a reference to it?
I’m thinking it’s not. Because Amanda’s pay rise came from Francine’s cover wardrobe budget – not her actual pay. So Francine is still able to buy herself the clothes she wants. Just not on the agency dime.
Again, this could be foreshadowing this pay cut- because it raises how expensive Francine’s tastes are – sets up the budget cut nicely! (IMHO)
Then again, maybe it was just in aid of Lee’s joke about how many miles she’d need to do with her taste?
What do you think? I can see both sides for this one.. I think I’m going to ponder this and hopefully together by the end we’ll have come up with an answer for which is best. I am sure there is arguments for either order.
-Mothers for a Safe Environment (MSE) – I’m guessing it is in the vain of the well known ‘Mothers Against Drunk Drivers’ – (M.A.D.D) – which had a film made about it in the early 80s.. guessing it was a time where women were starting to become more politically active – maybe mothers specifically- anyone able to shed some light on this?
–
Wonderful to see Lee very interested in what Amanda is doing with MSE- before he knows it applies to his case! haa! hey- what are the odds?!
Shows some progress don’t you think?? Not only does Lee listen, he sincerely congratulates her on what she is doing and her election as spokesperson.
– I’ll get back to Francine’s outfit in the next post – when I’ve recovered adequately and found my cuffs so I can arrest her properly!
– ‘the look’ between Billy and Francine as Lee involves Amanda in his assignment? What do you make of it?
I think that Billy knew Fletcher lived so close to Amanda, and that is why he assigned following him to Lee. But this way- Lee gets to think it’s ‘his idea’ to involve Amanda.. when Billy knew all along he would and that Lee would now be happy to involve Amanda This is my guess.. Francine I think is struck by Lee’s being happy to be given the opportunity of including Amanda. Billy and Francine are noticing the change in Lee – and it’s wonderful!!
Lee and Amanda are starting to get so close and want to be together sooo much – I think people are beginning to notice this more and more [Maybe they notice it more than Lee and Amanda do!]. Hmm Lee might need to do something about this.. Hmm!!! Bring on Season 3!!! 😉 A cryptic statement I know – but maybe we can look back on this phase of their relationship after the first five season 3 episodes and view them in light of the changes that take place then hmm? For now, I’m trying to keep in mind the current unknowns – as they are unknowns for the characters right now too.
I think Amanda is happy to go with the flow.. and Lee? I think this kind of relationship is so new to him he is simply enjoying this wonderful new discovery– once he is use to it, then he might begin to question if it’s a good idea We’ll see!
I can’t wait to hear your thoughts everyone! byeee for now!
"Just walk with me.." 
Ugh – there are so many reasons why I dislike this episode, but I’m in a good mood today, (pee-free cornflakes thank you very much 🙂 ) so I’m only going to say nice things.
I’m happy for Amanda that she got the coveted out front parking spot. There’s Jack! Except he now has a name! Someday I’ll get to this episode with stats. What is Francine’s code name??? We need to give her one. I see the wink! I see the wink! Cute! I don’t know what Francine is wearing, I just feel bad for the bird she killed to steal it’s feathers. She even made feather earrings. Love the look shared between Billy and Francine. Well, Billy’s look to Francine, not Francine’s look.
I actually took the voucher thing to mean this episode came after MBF. Amanda tells Lee she has plans for the money. That means to me that she has enough extra to actually plan to spend. If it were for necessary expenses, I would have expected her to say that she needed the money instead. And Francine’s line is also in line with MBF coming first IMO. Now that her wardrobe budget has been cut, she needs to find a way to get more money to keep paying for those expensive clothes.
I think Lee and Amanda are finally really just enjoying their close friendship. It took a while to get here, but they are here and I think they both seem very happy with it. For now it is settled and they can relax and enjoy. For now.
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Hmm.. so far I’m not hearing anything to convince me VM is definitely before MBF.. I can come up with plenty of reasons why it could be.. but nothing definitive.. Has anyone watched the episodes in the reverse order together to see how it flows?
Indeed.. lots of enjoying their friendship in this episode – so BJo how can you not like this episode?? 😉
I hope our walk through will improve things for ya.
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I have never watched VM before MBF. I will have to do that and report back. I hope the walk through improves my view of this episode as well, but I have low expectations that it will. Ha! I just really have too many issues with how this particular episode portrays attitudes in the US in the 80’s. And I find the baddie reeeeeally creepy – DD does an awesome job. RC is nothing like TM. If it weren’t for his eyes, I’m not sure that I would even connect the two characters.
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BJo reporting back. I watched BO, VM and MBF in that order back-to-back-to-back today. My initial thoughts are that MBF definitely comes before VM. I have four main reasons for this but I’ll only cover three of them in full detail because we’ve not walked through all of VM yet. And this may sound weird coming from me, but while watching it in this order it just didn’t feel right. It may be because this is the first time I’ve watched these episodes in this order, so I’m willing to keep an open mind, but I think I prefer MBF followed by VM. It just makes sense to me.
My first reason is the money. In VM Amanda seems very relaxed and happy and able to focus on non-essential things (i.e. MSE). In MBF, right from the start, she seems stressed and uptight about her money situation. I don’t necessarily think that these episodes take place in the span of a week, so a lot of time could have passed by, but I just don’t see Amanda being soo relaxed and happy in VM and then being so stressed out about money in MBF. That seems out of character for her to me. She seems more stable or even keeled than that. The other piece to the money equation is what I and others have mentioned – she has extra money to spend on MSE – I don’t think she would do that if she was having trouble paying for the bills or couldn’t buy the boys a Wizard Whopper.
My second reason is Amanda’s relaxed and happy attitude. I think it is due to more than her money issues being resolved in MBF. I think after what happened in BO and in MBF Amanda is happy to have some things resolved and put behind her. She knows Lee is who she thought he was, that he is a good and committed friend to her and that she is a little more secure in her job and place at the Agency. I think along with her raise there will be higher expectations of her or more responsibility given to her. She’s been at the Agency two years now and Billy is right, she does deserve the raise – not just because she’s been there two years without one, but because she has proved herself valuable to the Agency. I won’t say more about that until we get to the end of VM, but I feel like Amanda must be feeling a little bit like she’s finally arrived and is accepted at the Agency. She seems to act like it in VM to me.
Another reason I think VM comes after MBF is Amanda’s position of responsiblity with MSE. I know she’s done lots of things with the PTA but MSE is a different animal IMO and Amanda seems very comfortable in her role and confident in what she is doing. I think Jordan’s view and opinion of her had to do good things for her self-esteem and gave her self-confidence a boost. Getting her old job back at the Agency with a raise (from cutting Francine’s wardrobe nonetheless) also had to give her quite a boost too.
I’ll stop there and will add more when we get to the end of the episode.
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I like the way you mentioned that it was Byron Jordan’s view and opinion of her that may have been part of her increased confidence. I think Lee might have noticed that and learned from it a bit, he needed to in order to move him out a=of a place of complacency in that area with her, I think. Good research BJo, it is appreciated 😉
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I do think Lee had to wonder what Jordan saw in Amanda that he didn’t. I think it’s more likely that Lee didn’t see it because he still thinks of her as a housewife where as Jordan thought of her as a valued Agency employee.
It’s also interesting to note that Amanda’s co-workers (i.e. not Lee, Billy and Francine – they are not the same level as Amanda) must have all been able to see how valuable Amanda was at the Agency as well. Jordan says that he based his opinion of her on what they said. I think this came up in an MBF post, but I don’t have time right now to go back and check.
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I think it is true that Lee at the point of where the story is in the beginning of MBF still sees Amanda as a housewife. I do think, however that he may have become aware of how valuable Amanda was to him personally (because of BO), and that might have kept him from seeing her as valuable to the Agency as an organization. That kind of messes with his compartmentalization as well, which is just part of poor Lee’s Tupperware issue anyway 😉
I do think that during this episode he may be putting her value to his own work personally and her place at the Agency together a bit more.
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I like what you say here, Morley, epecially that last sentence. I think Lee has tended to view Amanda more as how can she help him/his work versus how can she be an agent in her own right.
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I thought MBF would make a better season finale just because VM is so weak. I agree with your reasoning, I just liked how strong MBF was (despite the rushed nature and the huge plot holes) and what an interesting contrast between Lee’s attitude towards Amanda when they first met and Byron’s. In my perfect rabbit hole world. I could see this as a two parter ending not at the part of Amanda being arrested for Jordan’s murder, but the scene where Amanda turns in her guest badge.
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I completely agree with you, Cindy. VM is a weak finale – it is too subtle in what it shows about Lee and Amanda IMO. The “gullible, annoying and/or obnoxious” women as jule says (love that jule!) and the creepy baddie are what I most remember about this episode. And the tag? Guess I shouldn’t say anything yet about that. I love your idea about using MBF as a two parter with the cliffhanger you suggest. VM would have been much better as a first episode of S3. Guess they couldn’t do that though because of that damn hair don’t.
I will admit though, I have a new found appreciation for VM after having watched it before MBF. Sometimes having low expectations helps! Hahaha!
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BJo, I agree with you that VM should be at the end and the money issue is one of the reasons. Some of my other reasons why still have yet to play out, but I also agree that it just feels right that way. Can’t wait to hear your other reason. Liked reading your various thoughts as you are catching up. Looking forward to more.
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Thanks – looking forward to hearing your other reasons too!
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Hi BJo! Thanks so much for checking that out!!! 😉 JWWM thanks you for your sacrifice 😉
whooo I’m looking forward to hearing what your other reason is why this is the final episode!
Yeah I think everything you say and others have said makes sense. I can find an explanation for things if VM is second last.. but I think VM being last does – when everyone’s ideas are combined – make more sense.. in terms of story and the characters.
In terms of being a season finale? not so much.. but.. It can be so that VM is the intended season finale and it’s just not as good.. I’ll just have to go with that 🙂
It is an okay finale.. just doesn’t have the punch. and I’ve found BO and MBF are two very big episodes to have one after the other.. but then again – I think there was a gap of 1 month between BO and MBF when the show originally aired – so it would not have felt like to be punches right on top of each other..
I like to imagine there has been a month or so for the characters between the episodes also.. so I’ll go with that..
Thanks for sharing your insights from your ‘research’ BJo – did you write up any statistics on it?? 😉 tee heee..
Okay, I’ve convinced.. MBF is first.. VM is second! 🙂 It will be interesting to see in the final post if anyone votes for the opposite.
I liked your idea that Jordan’s endorsement of Amanda’s skills has given her a boost to take on the role of being MSE spokesperson! Hmm.. Lee and Bill ended up giving Amanda an endorsement too – Lee helping her to get the raise and Billy in granting it.. from Francine’s cover wardrobe budget!! ohh how sweet it is!!! I think all this is an encouragement to Amanda of the skills she has, her value and what she can contribute..
A great idea BJo!
Byee!
Bye!
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No problem! Happy to take one for the team 😉
And my fourth reason is tied into one of the others and is more subtle than a big deal. I suspect most everyone probably already can figure it out.
I didn’t see anything that said VM could not go before MBF, but after experiencing it that way my opinion is that I think it goes before. But everyone is entitled to their own opinion 🙂
I agree that I wish it wasn’t the S2 finale. It is so anti-climatic after BO and MBF. That is where it’s weakest, I think. I do have thoughts on why this was the way it was, but I’ll hold off on that until we get to the last post on VM.
I do think Jordan’s view of Amanda made a difference to her and Billy and Lee. BJ’s view of Amanda comes with no pre-conceived notions or stereotypes like Lee and Billy’s did. I think after MBF that Lee and Billy are finally starting to see Amanda in a new light – or at least starting to realize that Amanda is much more than a “housewife.” I don’t remember if I said anything like this on any of the MBF posts, but I don’t know that I really thought it until I watched these eps out of order.
At some point in MBF, Lee and Billy had to realize that Jordan (a respected, trusted and successful business man in their line of work) saw something in Amanda that they didn’t see or think she could ever be. I think Billy was quicker to give Amanda compliments and think more highly of her skills than Lee, but he did nothing about it, not until she left the Agency. I think when he decided to re-hire her, he realized that he had to finally give her what she was due – more pay and professional advancement (that we see in S3).
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Since my mind is casa de nada at the moment, I am just going to second the thoughts here and say ‘Like’ coz I do! I used to feel this was pre MBF, mostly because I thought it was such a disappointing season finale. Now, I can see that it fits after BO anf MBF. Thanks y’all for doing all the thinking for me while I’m too tired to use my brain 😉
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I agree with pretty much everything that has been said thus far. I do agree with kiwismh’s take on the finance issues of Amanda and Francine. That is one of the reasons I think this comes after MBF. I agree that Amanda would spend the money on household necessities instead of the committee if she were still in the same boat. At the beginning of last episode she was clipping coupons. I also agree with the relaxed closeness of Amanda and Lee and how after all of the craziness and drama of that past several episodes, it’s nice to catch a quick breath. How many times have we actually started an episode with them together sort of shooting the breeze, hanging out in the bullpen?
Lee knowing Amanda’s neighborhood goes back to something I mentioned in an earlier post about how much time he actually spends off hours hanging around her neighborhood. It becomes a little more obvious in the next scene. It’s interesting that of all the things Lee could be focused on the first thing he notices is how close Dr. Fletcher lives to Amanda.
I like Lee’s attentiveness to Amanda and him listening and responding to her in kind. He seems genuinely interested in her and what she is saying.
Mother’s Against Drunk Driving came about because of an increase in teenage drinking and driving and so many young people getting into accidents and dying after parties and dances like Homecomings and Proms. It sort of like the texting while driving issue now. It got to be pretty bad for a while. There is even a Students Against Drunk Driving group now as well. Several of these groups exist in high schools and work to make students aware of and curtail potentially dangerous behavior. Many high schools will display a wrecked car on their property now when Homecoming and Prom week roll around as a reality check for the students. In some states, including mine, they have even changed drivers’ training laws so that it now takes longer to get a license to drive.
Also, right near the end of the 70s and the beginning of the 80s people were starting to focus a bit more on the environment and pollution. I remember when they started doing bottle deposits here. It was getting pretty bad. However, being more aware of environmental issues is more prevalent now than it was then.
The woman as victim role kills me. I’m sure there could be a whole thread on Ned’s devoted to this. I’m not even going to get started on that bit of foolishness.
Funny how Billy says, “playing for keeps”. Isn’t that the title to a future episode?
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Re the little exchange about money – perhaps it’s to highlight the difference between Amanda and Francine? It shows that Amanda would use any extra money to help others, while Francine would spend it on herself. Not that we need any reminding of Francine’s self-centeredness.
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LOL! good thinking!
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Okay, I’m just going to LIKE LIKE LIKE all the comments and the blog. ‘Nuff said.
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I definitely get the vibe that this episode is AFTER MBF. Lee is way too comfortable around Amanda and keen to involve her. It’s almost as if he’s relaxed in the knowledge she won’t be going anywhere. I would agree with kiwismh assessment of how she would be spending her finances, pre MBF that money would have been spent on her family rather than a community group.
I do wonder how Amanda manages to fit in all these groups……it’s a full time job keeping up with my family, their needs never mind anyone else’s. I do cringe inwardly at the name of the group. Not heard of MADD but toxic waste dumping and pollution issues aren’t just the concern of mothers.
Really enjoy the looks between Billy and Francine, I think IWSOD fondness is a good description to describe what people are seeing 🙂
Francine’s top? Someone call the appliqué police!!!
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kiwismh, Morley, Jenbo, and Valerie – you all raise some good points about why this episode is after MBF.. I am especially swayed by the idea that before the raise Amanda would not have had the $$ to spend on MSE… but now she does. But then, waiting on the vouchers still sounds like penny pinching. Hm maybe Amanda penny pinches anyway?!
To me, the closeness here between them is not an argument for this episode being after MBF, because for me their closeness works after Burn Out alone – (before Murder Between Friends). In the tag of Burn Out, they are friendly and closer than ever having been to hell and back together! IMHO of course! 🙂
I thought there were some who thought VM could be before MBF.. if you are out there feel free to share your views – I’ve done a poll in the final post of this episode asking which order you prefer after we’ve finished discussing this episode.
I’m thinking either way we can rationalise the dialogue to suit the order we like lol.. 🙂
Jenbo I think Amanda fits it all in because she has great child care arrangements 😉 Without Dotty.. this spy thing wouldn’t happen IMHO! Applique police? rofl!!!! I love it!!
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I do think that having MBF brings into the context the idea of a friendship outside the agency. They brush up against that here as well, but I don’t think it would be like it is in this episode with out the idea being pushed a bit in MBF…. but we will probably talk about that more soon, huh?
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“maybe Amanda penny pinches anyway?!” Well, she is (as Francine always suspected) a “coupon clipper”. She seems like a fairly frugal person to me.
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True, but I put that down to the fact that it was before her raise.
She certainly didn’t seem to enjoy needing to clip those coupons..
But.. I think Morley’s idea and the next scene may have convinced me to vote for this episode after MBF! 🙂
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Even though Amanda got a raise in MBF, I’m assuming she still didn’t make much to begin with. A part-tme secretary-type person who only merits a guest pass? So a raise would likely only be a small percent increase – not double like BJ was going to pay her. So I still think she needs to be frugal. And her boys aren’t even teenagers yet – her food bill alone is going to double in a coupe of years.
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Maybe she’s into “extreme couponing” LOL
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Okay, first for the woman in the beginning. Not a victim. I hate it when women who do immoral things in the name of love are seen as victims of some smooth talking man. Grow up ladies time to take responsibility for yourselves. Women cannot claim to be just as capable and smart as men and then say their actions are men’s faults. Not that a man who uses a woman isn’t disgusting, but she is still responsible. If a man were compromising his work for a woman he was involved with everyone would see him as a pig who was just doing it for sex. But a woman is a victim. Doesn’t wash.
I am actually with Kiwismh on all the reason she sees this as coming after MBF. I think it does come after, but it’s a let down in the way of a season finale after the intensity of BO and MBF. But I think SMK kind of does that. It builds things up towards the end of a season and then kind of cools them down in the finale maybe not wanting to go into the next season on the heels of a lot of intensity.
Does Lee look Amanda up and down here? I’ll have to go back and look. I’ve never noticed that. I have never noticed a lot of romantic tension in this episode, just two people who at this point are very comfortable with each other. Maybe I’ll see more as we go, but I kind of think whatever romantic feelings exist between these two at this point they are put on the back burner for the next couple of episodes. And both Lee and Amanda are fine with that until the issue is forced again. As I do see this episode as being after MBF friends I think at this point both Lee and Amanda are just happy to be back in each other’s lives, and don’t feel the need to analyze their feelings beyond that at this point. Yeah, the issue does surface briefly in the next scene, but despite the acwardness of it, it is quickly disreguarded and not dwelt upon. For a short time I think both Lee and Amanda are actually content with things just the way they are.
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Move over, Misty — is there room on your soapbox for me? The woman may not be a ruthless baddie, but unless Castillo gave her a mind-altering drug, she is still responsible for her own decisions! There are too many victims in today’s society!
As for it being hard to watch women being used as victims, I know this is a problem for some people when they watch a certain S3 episode. Interestingly, I don’t hear people with the same aversion to ROTPast where the baddie is preying on men. Double standards amuse me, not because I object to them, but because they are interesting to analyze!
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Whoa! I posed the question here of whether Ms Waterston was a ‘victim’ without realising it would raise these issues. I was simply wondering about the plot – what did she know.. was she a goodie or a baddie kind of thing. This word seems to be loaded with meaning!
Misty and Raffie, you raise some good points. I’m usually the first to stand up and say woman! you gotta own your decisions!!
But in this episode, I’m finding myself not crying ‘oh you silly woman!!!’ – I have done in the past watching this episode actually.. so I find it interesting that my views of the women have changed.
At this point in the episode all we know is this woman was in a love affair with Castille, and helped him steal the crystals. then he betrayed her. But.. we don’t yet know what he said to her or did to manipulate her into helping him.
Don’t get me wrong, I still think the women are responsible for their actions, but I feel for the women in this episode and for once I’m not crying you got suckered fool!!!
Why? well that would mean getting into future events of the episode so I will hold off discussing this for now.
One thing I will flag up front though is that this episode IMHO paints a picture throughout of what it was like for women/ mothers in SMK world in the 80s. Women experience a completely different world to the one the men do on SMK.. Especially in the suburbs…And for me this is all a part of what contributes to Castille being able to manipulate women so successfully.
This difference can mean I don’t treat men’s and women’s experiences the same… and maybe it seems like a double standard! I’m not even sure I completely get what this episode is wanting to say about women fully – so I’ll be interested to hear what you all think when this is over! help! 😉
Ahhh yes Raffie.. double standards are interesting to explore! Can we explore that one when we get to the episode you have in mind? I want to discuss it, but just don’t want to open that can of worms till we get there! 🙂
Bye!!
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My immediate reaction isn’t to tut at Ms Waterstone. I don’t think a woman working in that level of security would just ditch her morals on the flutter of some mans eyelashes and compliments. I suspect it would have been systematic grooming and manipulation. She’s not without fault and she paid for that with her life but I no longer see people in such black and white terms. Sociopaths are extremely clever people. Just IMO 🙂
Am sitting watching this episode now. IWSOD didn’t get a screen cap but as Amanda watches them walk to Billy’s office you can see the out line of the should pads on her blouse. Man they’re big suckers LOL
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Hi Jenbo!
When I read this comment I was nodding yes!!!! the whole time!! Castille is eventually shown to be a sociopath and a menace to women and society! I find I’m not able to cry that these women should have known better.. [like I use to!]
I see Castille and the women he uses the same way. I’ve used the word ‘grooming’ in the next post myself. As we learn more about this character I think it becomes clearer that maybe Ms Waterston wasn’t the baddie that she was first thought to be after all..
rofl! I think I found the shoulder pads Amanda borrowed from sandy newcombe 😉
hilarious!!! But heck, I’m just glad they didn’t try and put gum leaves on Amanda! 😉
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First I have to say that I love the gum leaves. We have these little toy bears that can pinch there front paws and cling to things and I think Francine should have one clinging to the leaves on her sweater.
But on to the topic of Castile and his women. I agree that he is a sociopath and knows how to manipulate. I also am thinking that here is another episode that highlights what kind of a woman Amanda is. Not as an agent so much this time, but as a mother and suburban woman. This episode does show all types of women doesn’t it?
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Double standards, indeed! It’s interesting in OOADP that Cradle and Tree-loggin’ 😉 were described as top agents who were fooled – they are not seen as victims. At least the baddie was given some initial respect – and it was a woman.
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Good point! though I don’t know if SMK refers to ‘castile’s women’ as being victims or fools.. Hmm we’ll have to keep an ear out for that!
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I don’t think SMK does, although I’m not 100% sure – something to that effect might be said about JK later. I was referring to what I read in some of the comments.
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oh no I didn’t think you were saying that BJo sorry I wasn’t clear. I was wondering out loud myself if smk labels these women in the way the comments had discussed. we’ll see! 🙂
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Yes, people are responsible for their actions! I think what makes a story like this compelling (woman doing something wrong for someone she is in love with) is the idea of the “tragic flaw”, the thing that a person (or the audience) feels they have no control over (like falling in love). Feeling unable to act rationally because of emotions is such a universal human experience that we naturally have sympathy for a character like Ms. W. She is both responsible and unable to do right (because of her feelings), and has no power to change either of those. Not to mention that he doesn’t love her back! Sad! (And kind of heavy for an episode opener — we definitely know who the bad guy is though).
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What you all are saying about victim mentality and these bad guy characters in this episode is very true. I wonder if wee can compare Castile and how he uses the women who fall in love with him with Lee and Amanda…. LASinLA, you mention a woman feeling like she has no control over falling in love, being unable to act rationally, and not being loved by the man that is manipulating her and using her, as I read what you wrote it reminded me of how completely opposite this is to what is occurring at this stage between Lee and Amanda. (Even if Lee would never use Amanda for nefarious purposes)
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Good point! Theirs isn’t a “using/abusing” relationship at all. It also crossed my mind to wonder whether Lee or Amanda has a tragic flaw, but I’m not thinking very clearly at the moment. Maybe Amanda helps Lee’s flaw from becoming “tragic”.
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I think we all have a “tragic flaw” like you pointed out. I think one of the things that we love so much about this show is the way both Lee and Amanda overcome that thing that could make them weak, flawed, or hurt one another with and love triumphs.
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Agreed!
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I agree. Love is a choice — you may not be able to stop attraction to someone, but you don’t have to act on it.
I think also what makes a difference is how you’re brought up, and what kind of life experiences you’ve had. Amanda for example, has grown up in a home that from what we’ve seen, seemed to be full of unconditional love. Maybe overbearing at times, but she grew up secure in a family that cared about her. And it influences what she will and won’t put up with in a relationship, so that when she does get the bad experiences, it doesn’t completely destroy her or change her as a person. She knows she doesn’t have to settle for a man who won’t put his family first and she knows that even if someone is outwardly perfect and seeming to care about her, it’s not fair to lead them on when she doesn’t feel the same way. And she knows that just because a man is attractive as all get out and totally fascinates her and even seems to care about her at times, he’s not worth getting involved with when he won’t commit. And we’d never see her fall for a Castille type to where she’d compromise her morals — when she sees them for who they are, like Allan Squires, she draws the line.
Lee had five good years of a loving, stable family but sadly lost that influence. He’s also faced so much loss in his life that it has made him unwilling to trust in love and he could have gone down a road where he became a man like Castille, or where he fell for women who were the female equivalent. In fact he almost does do that with Eva. But at least even with what his upbringing lacked in love, he still gained a good moral foundation and values of right and wrong. He may have trust issues and he may not feel like women like Amanda would ever want someone like him, but he at least won’t go so far as to settle for someone from the wrong side and betray his country and his principles just to be loved. He’s not going to knowingly get involved with a woman from the wrong side no matter how much he cares about them. And he won’t cross the line into dating married women or in using and abusing women.
I get the impression that the women Castille falls for all came from upbringings where they never saw much love and/or have had enough lousy relationships that they’re convinced they don’t deserve real love. And Castille probably had some of the same background as well because he certainly doesn’t seem to have any concept of love whatsoever. At the same time, that doesn’t excuse his actions, because there are always other opportunities to learn those values. Lee had a jerk for an uncle, but he received surrogate parental figures in Harry, Billy, Paul Barnes, T.P., and Emily. You can’t tell me that at least once in Castille’s life, there wasn’t at least one person who could have helped him see love, if he’d only been willing to receive it.
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whooo this idea is interesting Morley and LASinLA!
It’s like Lee and Amanda are the antithesis of Castille and his women.. but interestingly, they all start in the same place! I’ve mentioned this in the final post- In the first time, Lee was schmoozing Amanda and all charm trying to get the package – but it quickly disintegrates 😉
Amanda trusted Lee from the start.. we could say it was instinct.. but.. things could have turned out very differently for Amanda had Lee been a man like Castille..
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What’s funny is in the past of this blog I’ve been the one to point out you can’t control who you fall in love with or what you feel. And I truly believe that. You can’t control how you feel, but you can control what you do about it. People always say you have to follow your heart, but that alone will get your heart broke. Yes you should listen to your heart, but you should also listen to your head. I think Lee and Amanda are a perfect example of this. I think Amanda always had strong feelings for Lee,but despite how irresistable the man may seem IMO I don’t think she would have given him her heart until he showed her he willing to make a commitment. The same is true of Lee. I think he felt something for Amanda all along but he respected her to much to pursue something with her until he was ready to give her what she needed. Think how different things would have been if these two had just given into their feelings early on and been swept away in some whirlwind romance that IMO would have ended in disaster. They both would have been cheated out of the real love that can stand the test of time that they come to know later on. I just don’t buy that a woman(or a man) can’t help what they do because they are in love. Love is not a justification for everything. There still has to be a right and wrong. And really how much did these women really love Daniel Davis’s character when in reality they couldn’t even known him that long. They may have thought is was love, but that is why they should have used their head a little bit more.
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YES!
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like
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Hey Misty – I’ll join the chorus.. LOL.. love what you have to say here about Lee and Amanda 🙂 this is one of the things I like most about their story!!!!
Regarding Castille and the women who fall for him- at this point we don’t know enough to say how long he knew them, what he told them etc. We do find out more about this- So I won’t draw conclusions about the women at this point.. well I suppose at this point there is only one woman that we know about – LOL! and she’s dead.. no one deserves that! 😉
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Like, Like, Like Misty.
You can’t help what you feel but you can control what you do about it is so true. Unfortunately, it can take a bit of life experience to learn this lesson. I certainly learned the hard way a couple of times before I started using my head instead of my heart. A lot of wasted years and hurt that could have been avoided.
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Misty, you nailed Lee and Amanda’s pent up feelings for each other…it’s all about timing, maturity and acceptance of the other person’ s life. Lee has to he ready to take in a woman with two teens and Amanda has to trust Lee enough to bring him into her ready made family. Her boys are everything to her and if a significant other can’t accept them then he can’t be part of her life. Lee has to be certain that he is ready to take on such a huge responsibility, no matter how he feels about Amanda.
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A big thumbs up for Daniel Davis – goodie or baddie he’s always worth his weight in gold because he’s such a good actor.
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Oh yeah!!! I watched an episode of the nanny last night in his honour! 🙂
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I was shocked to find out Daniel Davis is an American, educated in Arkansas, no less.
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Hard to tell whether this might be before or after MBF. Lee and Amanda seem so relaxed and in tune with each other here it feels like MBF has already happened and they are particularly happy and secure in their best friend relationship. So it could be after MBF.
I would think if Amanda was still financially strapped she wouldn’t be using her expense money for a community action group, it would all be going into home and family needs. So again, could be after MBF when she has a little more to come and go on and can put a little money into a community group.
I’m thinking Francine is missing that extra expense money for her wardrobe and this is why she is looking for new ways to fund her hideous taste in clothes. The top she is wearing today is tragic, even for the 80’s. Although it could look quite nice without those scraps of material draped over one shoulder and the matchy-matchy earrings which complete this fashion tragedy. I am trying to remember if I wore anything like that in the 80’s but I’m going to stop thinking about that now because I just had a disturbing flashback to a particularly awful long yellow shapeless sweater with huge shoulder pads, that I wore with leggings (and leg warmers I’m sure completed the outfit but that image is clearly so disturbing that I have blocked it out entirely) 😯
The look between Billy and Francine – I agree with you Iwsod, Billy has given Lee an easy way to involve Amanda. I think he is happy to see Lee growing fonder of Amanda and now actively wanting her as his partner, and I think he is happy to engineer opportunities for them to spend more time together. Billy has always seen that Amanda is good for Lee’s professional and personal well-being. Given how Lee has matured emotionally and how Amanda has grown in confidence and ability in the last couple of years they have worked together, maybe now Billy is also beginning to think that a more profound personal relationship might well be possible between Lee and Amanda. I can see Billy discretely smoothing the way by providing Lee and Amanda with plenty of opportunities to spend more time together.
Francine is much less aware of the potential of Lee and Amanda’s growing friendship. As far as she’s concerned Lee just wouldn’t be romantically interested in a woman like Amanda and the lifestyle she exemplifies. Her smile or should I say smirk is one of mild amusement mixed I think with a little irritation at how Lee has made a friend of this suburban housewife and how readily he seeks out her involvement. Does Francine think that Lee is getting a bit soft as he gets older? Perhaps this amuses her. I think Francine misses the old Lee and maybe the working relationship they used to have before Amanda came on the scene.
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I like all that you wrote here!
Love the part about Billy. And about Francine’s smirk. And I echo what you said about why this comes after MBF. I like the comfort level between Lee and Amanda and I do think it illustrates what everything they went through in BO and MBF has built between them. SMK tends to do this. They put Lee and Amanda through these whiplash circumstances and the two of them have to go deeper with each other but they don’t realize what they are doing or how it is going to affect their relationship, they just respond to the circumstances (of course they choose the response that comes from a place of caring and loving each other, they could choose to respond in a hurtful and self protective place, but ultimately they never do). And then in following episodes they begin to explore the new ground they have created between each other. I see that happening here in VM after the events of BO and MBF.
And to me the comments about the vouchers and Francine’s clothes fit perfectly after MBF. I always hear Amanda as explaining that she is using the money for the action group. It is almost as if she is reassuring Lee that the raise is enough, that she isn’t counting pennies for her own family now, and Lee is relieved and happy for it. And having Francine learn a bit about penny pinching from Amanda here is even funnier after the tag in MBF.
Yup, I like this episode best after MBF. Just my opinion!
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“It starts at an ordnance lab in Oregon..”
Well, I’m certainly glad that the Oregonians can differentiate between ordnance and ordinances… unlike the Landover Proving Grounds rocket scientists. :p
“ROFL at how the guard punches in the code”
No kidding. His finger looks so taut, he probably nearly broke it by pushing on the buttons…
Uhhh… seriously? HOW is the card stuck in the card reader? Is it a combination card reader and card punch? How else would it get stuck and not be able to slide out?!?!? Whatever…
“LOL he doesn’t seem to be very into her….”
That’s ‘cos Niles doesn’t find her as sarcastically alluring as C.C. 😀
Flying Lettuce, indeed! 😀
That white taxi drives past IFF a lot… almost as much as Ms. Walker walks past, I think. Well, maybe a bit less. Ms. Walker is pretty persistent…
“BTW- did Byron wear that tie?? Hmm I might leave checking this to tie patrol – how’s it going KC?”
Well, I don’t have a record of Byron wearing that tie, but I do have Lee wearing it in the following three Season 2 episodes (but I’m not completely finished with Season 2 yet): PP, LOTP and BO. One of Byron’s ties is worn by another character… the blue one with maroon/white ovals is also worn by Baddie Sinclair with the crazy contact lenses in BAI. Tie Patrol has been a bit slow recently–I’ve been working Vehicle Patrol and my DMLNT transcription. 🙂
“If we can just find the neutralizing agent, this can never be a weapon again.”
OK–maybe I’m stoopid, but how can it never be a weapon again? Someone could still recreate the chemicals, even if they destroy what they have now… and if the nerve gas works within 10 seconds that really doesn’t allow enough time to deploy the neutralizing agent after the CX-12 has been released, if that was where Billy was going. 😕
I think the look between Billy and Francine is about Lee wanting to involve Amanda… more and more, as time goes on, as opposed to at the start when he wanted her gone. (And I think Billy did choose the guy from Arlington for Lee on purpose… Billy’s no fool!) I’m not sure whether Lee does give Amanda a quick up and down look, or not. 50-50 he’s looking, or he realised that if he didn’t look up he was going to end up staring at her, uh, chest… so he extricated himself. 😀 Yes, it was a very quick wink. I think just a quick one ‘cos it was a friendly gesture… he wasn’t trying to flirt or be Scarecrow-ish. He was just Lee, talking to his friend and letting her know that he’d take care of what she needed done. 🙂
Ohhh… I hate the next bit. It’s one of the parts that I just have to fast-forward through, ‘cos it makes me cringe! Something else the writers need to be smacked for!
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Hi KC! yeah I guess when I write ‘wink’ we assume it’s flirty Lee.. but this wink was an ‘I’ll take care of it’ wink 😉 tee heee..
lol! Looking forward to discussing the next bit. maybe my interpretation will ease your pain?! I don’t know..
It’s funny I was scratching my head over the neutralizing part as I was reading the post one more time before post.. you raise a great point. how does it stop it being a threat?! no one can ever put those two compounds together again?! They should call it Humpty Dumpty-12 or something..
Anwyway- tangent! sorry 😮
Your tie knowledge amazes me! I knew you’d be on it 😉
What episode did they misspell ordnance KC? that’s so funny!! 🙂
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The rocket scientists at the “law” laboratory were in Savior… 😉
Landover Proving Grounds
Ordinance Research and Development Laboratory
😀
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I love the sarcastic dialogue between CC and Niles! DD is great!
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Oh, me too, KC! I hate the next part more than I hate any part of this series except maybe Francine and Rollo! 🤢🤢🤢 I almost want to skip the next post because reading about it sounds painful, but I’ll grit my teeth and click on the next button. Let’s get this over with!! And iwsod, if you can help me stomach the next bit, you will truly be my hero!
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