8/18 Season Three, Episode 03 : Over the Limit- Scarecrow and Mrs King (Blog order-Episode 02)

68 thoughts on “8/18 Season Three, Episode 03 : Over the Limit- Scarecrow and Mrs King (Blog order-Episode 02)”

1. Pingback: 2/ Season Three, Episode 9: J.Edgar’s Ghost-Scarecrow and Mrs King | "Just walk with me.."

2. I love everyone’s analysis of what our favourite characters might be thinking! The acting is so amazing that there’s a ton of subtext for us to sift through.

   I have a different take on Lee’s behaviour in this episode. (If someone else has made this comment in a different post, please forgive me – I haven’t scrutinized them all yet!)

   I think that (assuming WOTSTW comes before OTL) the incident with the black books has highlighted to Lee something he’s been vaguely aware of for awhile now – that his romantic life is leaving him feeling a bit empty – and he’s also started to realize how much he values the kind of connection he has with Amanda. Given his occupation, there are very few people with whom he’s free to be himself, and she is the only person we’ve seen him allow himself to be a bit more vulnerable with – even with Billy and Francine, who he’s known much longer, he’s a bit closed off. I believe he is starting to think maybe he’d like to have that kind of openness and deep connection in his romantic life, too, and trying to figure out how to go about it by replicating certain elements of his relationship with Amanda.

   I think we need to keep in mind that this is a man who has probably spent his entire life trying to convince himself he’s better off alone. After what happened to his parents, he’s only ever seen families from the outside, and with the way he was raised – both with the relationship with his uncle, and the frequent moves that prevented him from building any long-term connections – he has decided it isn’t worth the trouble letting himself get emotionally invested in another person. His experiences with Dorothy and Eva have only reinforced his bias. In addition to that, his uncle drilled into him quite heavily the myth that ‘real men don’t show their feelings,’ making it even more difficult for him to allow himself to be vulnerable with anyone.

   Having never been truly part of a family, Lee probably believes it’s never something he’s going to experience. As a child, he would have always been on the outside looking in, and continues to reinforce that behaviour by peeking in Amanda’s back window like he does. I think it’s entirely subconscious, but I believe Lee would entirely dismiss any idea that he might ever be a part of the kind of family Amanda belongs to. Her world probably seems so far removed from what he perceives his own to be that despite the depth of their connection, he has also dismissed the thought of her as a serious romantic prospect once he started to desire one. His outsider mentality toward family is nicely highlighted in the scene where the Sullivans are reunited – he looks pleased for a moment, then a bit wistful, and I think he really feels in that moment the lack of something he might have had if things were different. (There are later episodes that show these kinds of moments as well, not the least of which is The Wrong Way Home.)

   At this point, I don’t think Lee is really aware of what he’s truly feeling deep down. I think he’s fumbling around in his inexperience with serious romantic relationships and trying to create something where it doesn’t exist, or hasn’t had a chance to develop yet. He’s spent so many years trying to avoid becoming emotionally involved that he has forgotten how, and Amanda was the one who did most of the work and didn’t really give him an option to close himself off completely. I believe her persistence in being his friend is the only reason he allowed himself to open up a bit to her, and after realizing being open didn’t make him weak, he started to feel the emptiness elsewhere in his life. It isn’t until later this episode that he realizes it’s STILL missing in other areas of his life, and that what he was looking for just might have been in front of him all along. He’s still not quite sure what to do about it, but at least he’s stopped going about it the wrong way.

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   1. Welcome Danni!!!!

      Wow!! What an amazing first comment to us all! 🙂 good for you!!

      I’m super busy at the moment so will respond to your comments later – I just wanted to say a big welcome to you straight away!!

      Iwsod 🙂

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      1. Thank you! I can’t believe this is the first time I’ve come across this blog – I’m loving it so far!!

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   2. Welcome Danni!
      Lovely thoughts, so glad you shared them. I can’t wait to hear more.
      I love the way you have described Lee’s growing awareness of what he desires and how he has viewed himself and relationships up until this point.

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   3. Welcome Danni! Am enjoying reading your thoughts about Lee.

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3. Pingback: A quick recap of Over the Limit..before or after Wizard?? | "Just walk with me.."

4. Hello everyone! It’s been a long time since I’ve been here…Easter preparations, my granddaughters softball tourneys and a bad sinus infection has pretty much had been off the internet..
   There are so many great posts that I can’t imagine anything I might say would be different. I am just thrilled to be into season three…lots of goodies coming up….i love S3 because this is where Lee and Amada discover they love each other IMHO…..Hey, I’ve missed all the witty comments…I’m glad I’m back.

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   1. Welcome back, Gruvy Granny! Hope you’re feeling better and we’re glad you’re back as well! S3 is pretty awesome.

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5. Less fashionably late to the party and more like turning up after the party’s finished! Easter hols is putting a squeeze on time with bickering kids
   Lots of lovely comments I agree with so I don’t really have anything to add that hasn’t already been said.
   I think Amanda is smarting here. Billy giving her the brush off, a brush with death, no one willing to step up and defend ES…..then add to that Lee denying he’s got a new girlfriend. Talk about a change in behaviour. Being grilled about a sexy dress he wants to buy a friend, insomnia, claiming he he hasn’t got a new girlfriend, ditching Amanda happily while she does spring cleaning. No wonder she must feel off kilter. Just when you get to a comfortable stage in a relationship with someone you have convinced yourself you can’t have a relationship with…..and then BAM the little things start changing.
   Lee arranging for ES to be released? Total brownie points the sneaky devil.

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   1. Love your comment here, bitsybeans! Isn’t it just like life to throw you a curve ball just when things are finally feeling comfortable and good! Congrats on the new blog, by the way! I’ll have to go check it out, though I’ve never seen an episode. Maybe your blog will make me want to watch it!

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6. Aww, love how Lee is with Amanda after leaving Billy’s office. He knows she is fired up and he wants to try to talk some sense into her. She isn’t usually run by her emotions and he knows it. I think he doesn’t want her to run off and do something rash. He is still her superior. Has he ever seen her like this before? I wonder what he was going to say next before Amanda jumped in.

   And love Amanda’s comment back to him. She is unhappy about the bombing, she is unhappy about ES being handcuffed and accused of being involved in it, and she is unhappy at the thought of Lee taking up his old playboy ways again. I don’t know if I think Amanda is jealous here or not. If she is jealous, it would be akin to Lee being jealous of David Benson or James Delano. Jealousy with no real substance behind it. I think it may just be more anger. I think she is not happy that Lee may be sleeping around again. I think perhaps she had thought that he was growing out of that phase of his life and is just mad at him for falling off the wagon. I think after that tender hug at the bomb scene and his thanks she wasn’t hurt comment, when in fact HE is the one hurting her, his tender words after ES is led away, and his soft tone here with her, she is fed up and is calling him on it. If he is going to go back to tomcatting, then he needs to go back to how he used to treat her and not be so tender and kind. This must all be a bit confusing for her and she is lashing out perhaps. Of course, I’m just rambling, so this may not make any sense at all.

   I think I agree that Lee doesn’t want to admit to Amanda, or anyone else for that matter, that he has a new girlfriend. He’s never hidden stuff like that before – at least based on the comments Francine has made in the past. Why would he want to do that? I’m not sure about him dealing with his feelings for Amanda causing him to put them onto another person. I’m not saying I disagree, I’m just not sure I agree or fully grasp it. I think he’s willing to admit to himself that he has a new girlfriend. He’s wanting to get her a dress for crying out loud. I think Lee is just not ready for this new personal aspect of his life to collide with his work life. I think he wants to keep the two separate and so by denying it at work to his co-workers, he can pretend it doesn’t exist while he’s working. In his mind it exists, but it’s a separate thing. I think whatever this new “friend” is in his life, there is something about it that makes him unwilling to share it with those closest to him. What is he afraid of? Maybe that’s why he’s losing sleep? He’s not sure how to integrate this new friend into his current life? Maybe there is something different about it or about him that he’s unwilling to share because he’s afraid of how other people with take it? Or what they will say about him?

   Wilma?? ROFL, iwsod!!! Yep, and Amanda’s still keepin’ him on the side! 😉

   Ahh, so Amanda is very confident that ES is not guilty. I guess that’s why she stormed out of Billy’s office. And OMG – that lovely look of whatever that is on Le’s face. And a dimple to boot! I think he is genuinely touched that he and Amanda made that moment happen and he is there to witness it. I do think this kind of warm regard for family is new for Lee – at least this softie look for it anyway. And that look he gives Amanda after they leave – he knows he did the right thing. And he knows he only did it because of Amanda’s insistence in ES’s innocence and her willingness to ignore the boss and do the right thing. Without Amanda being so fired up, they’d all be back at the Agency looking forward to their next case. I think Lee realizes what he’s done and he is proud and happy that he made that little family reunion just happen. His smile to Amanda tells me he is admitting that to her. Her look at him is, “Well, of course you feel good about this, you ninny!! It feels good to do the right thing for the little family, doesn’t it?! The little things matter, big fella! Family matters!”

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   1. BJo, Your comment about Amanda being angry and if Lee is going to revert to his old ways then he need to stop being so tender towards her makes perfect sense to me. And it fits with bitsybeans comment as well. Amanda was doing fin with the way things were and now they are all changed up. That has go to be confusing and with everything else that happened to her today, starting with Dottie and that catalogue she has got to want to have a good rant, so here she goes.
      Your second paragraph about Lee wanting to hide this new relationship and keep it from colliding with people at work makes sense to. I do think this episode is the Waterloo for Lee’s compartmentalization. And I do think that although he is fighting a losing battle, he is still fighting. I do think that Lee would want very much to keep his loving personal relationship not work related because of the painful life experiences he has had…but we don’t know much about those yet except his last partner and Eva.

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      1. You know, I had another thought about this. Another thought to go with what I said about Lee not wanting to mix his two worlds. I think whatever this new thing/friend/girlfriend/whatever is, it must feel good and right to Lee at some level. And that’s why he’s pursuing it. But on another level, he must know that there is something keeping him from holding it back from Amanda, his closest friend and someone he trusts enough to work with and consider a partner. Is it because he doesn’t know how to mix the two worlds? Or does he think there is a fatal flaw with this new thing that he will have to admit to himself once it is revealed to Amanda?

         I need to go back and ready what I said about the state of Lee’s heart from LOTP/OOADP to the end of S2. I know I thought at the rescue scene in OOADP that I thought Lee’s dimmer switch had been turned up and that from now on he would question his womanizing ways and start to need to find a different type of woman – a woman more like Amanda (the more wholesome, committed woman part, not the mom part) and less like Randi-baby.

         I get what you mean about this being Lee’s Waterloo for his compartmentalization, but with this new episode order, I’ll have to wait and see how it shakes out. I’ve not watched S3 before in this order. Or if I have, it was only once and I don’t remember my thoughts on it!

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      2. Oh my gosh!!! BJo I really enjoyed your comment that Morley has replied to here!

         I’ve been pondering jealousy and anger.. and as I’ve progressed through this episode, Amanda’s anger- rather than her jealousy- has been for me more interesting to me..
         I do think she is a little jealous here with her comment about what with all the sleep he’s been missing..(Like Misty explained so well in her comment outlining Amanda’s jealousy) … but maybe Jealousy is just a smaller part of the bigger picture here for Amanda.

         I’ve always approached OTL in the past as Amanda’s big jealousy reveal-but this time around – I think there is much more than jealousy going on for Amanda.. and it is not all about Lee either. Although yes, what’s happening with Lee is a big part of it no doubt.

         So I loved to read this comment of yours BJo, about Amanda’s anger – just yesterday that struck me too.. well hit me bam!!! when we get to later scenes which I will hold off discussing for now.

         Just wanted to say – I’m viewing jealousy to be a small part of the picture here of what’s going on with Amanda – There is soooo much going on – and what’s underlying the jealousy? the anger?? Many things seem to come up for Amanda this episode, not just jealousy.

         Based on what we’ve seen so far BJo – you’ve summed up brilliantly all the things Amanda has had to be angry about – and we haven’t even gotten to the big reveal! 🙂
         Oh gosh, BJo you’ve said you may not be making sense and you are rambling?? please! ramble away!!! I think what you say here makes a lot of sense to me.

         And Morley – I also really enjoyed your response to BJo’s comment!!! So true.. he is giving Amanda so many mixed messages.. It’s very confusing for Amanda right now. In many ways..
         It’s pretty evident already this plan of Lee’s is not working out so well.. exactly what is his plan? well.. we can see he has something going on but as yet we don’t know quite what!
         Can’t wait to discuss it!

         Just to let you all know, the upcoming, much anticipated ‘Leslie reveal’ is coming up in post 14 – I’ve transcribed the lot- and there are three posts related to her- so there will be plenty of opportunity to pick it apart and explore what we are all getting out of it 🙂 I can’t wait to discuss it with you all! hang in there – just a few more to go!! Would it help you if I tell you in advance what scenes I will be covering in which post for this section we are all anticipating covering??? if so let me know.. byee!

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   2. Great comments BJo and Morley. Enjoyed your analysis and the possible for Lee not wanting his personal and work lives to intersect. I’m sure he does have genuine feelings for this other person but is he trying too hard? And why?

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7. So many good thoughts here, folks. I want to say more, but I’ll wait for “that scene” before I add the details of what I think is happening. In the meantime, let me say that there is so much going on under the surface for these two. Lee’s is bubbling away inside him, giving him insomnia as he tries to deal with it all. Amanda’s has been tamped down for so long, it’s like a volcano fixing to explode. (In fact, a little of it escapes here.) These two are soooo ready for something that has been held back for so long. I can’t wait…..

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8. Wow a lot of thoughts on this scene. It is hard to process them all. First I do think Amanda is definitely jealous here, and it’s not just because Lee has a new girlfriend, it’s because she can sense something is different this time. As far as I am concerned there is one other time I definitely thought Amanda was jealous. It was during A relative situation when Lee was talking to his uncle on the phone about his non-existent girlfriend. To me that really got to Amanda. She didn’t just look uncomfortable to me she looked actually pained. I think there is a reason why that situation and this one make Amanda jealous when she isn’t usually. I think Amanda come to accept a long time ago that other women are simply a part of Lee’s life. She may not approve, but she accepts it and doesn’t feel threatened by it because they don’t really matter. On the other hand when Lee was talking to his uncle about the woman he was involved with he made it sound like they’d been seeing each other awhile and like it was more serious(he cared that she was jealous of his time) and I think Amanda knows Lee would not tell his uncle about a woman who was just another fling not alone introduce her.

   Now Lee is acting different and giving signs that the woman he is involved with now is more serious. Amanda can handle it when it’s just another fling but I think the idea of Lee being serious about a woman makes Amanda wonder why he never looked at her that way so there is definite romantic jealousy, but it’s more than that. For the most part the women Lee is romantically involved with come and go but Amanda is the one that is consistent in his life and really the one woman he has a real relationship with even if it’s not a romantic one at this point. Amanda has always had the security that she is the one woman who really gets to be a part of Lee’s life, if Lee gets serious about a woman he is involved with that’s a threat.

   It’s one of the biggest reasons I think Lee was always so jealous of Amanda’s involvement with other men. Lee had a double standard because he knew the women he got involved with were just casual affairs, but he knew Amanda wasn’t like that so if she got involved with someone he could lose her. I see that as being what’s going on with Amanda here. IMO even before they really fell in love Lee and Amanda have always had this deep connection and I think they both relied on that more than either would ever admit thus neither one can handle a threat to that. Also I do think the feelings between them are a lot stronger than they’ve ever been so that alone would make Amanda jealous about Lee being with another woman.

   As for Lee not wanting to admit he has a girlfriend to me that still seems like a whole lot of guilt. He does not want to admit to Amanda that there is someone else because on some level he knows it’s wrong. He is just trying so hard not to be in love with Amanda at this point. It’s kind of like he is stuck between a rock in the hard place. To me it seems at some point probably towards the end of season 2 Lee finally reached a point where casual affairs and meaningless sex just got to be too empty and those kind of relationships just aren’t satisfying him any more, and not just on a physical level, I imagine on some level those affairs distracted him from just how lonely he probably really is, and they aren’t doing that anymore either. They may even be making him feel more alone at this point. Because of this Lee wants a deeper relationship which is why he’s chosen to date someone he could be more serious about, but on the other hand he doesn’t really want to fall totally in love because love scares him to death. So he’s trying to have a deeper relationship and inadvertently damaging the deepest relationship he has.

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   1. This is a really good analysis Misty. Like, Like, Like! 🙂

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   2. Hi Misty!
      Brilliant!!
      I especially enjoyed how u reminded us of Amanda’s reaction in A Relative Situation! I had forgotten about it!!
      And it was a time where I felt there was jealousy on Amanda’s part! You’ve identified why there was jealousy then and now beautifully!
      I’ll try and add the link to that post in a comment tomorrow- I’m currently on phone so awkward / bye everyone!

      Iwsod Edited to add:
      HERE is the link to the moment in A Relative Situation which Misty referred to 🙂 byee!

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   3. I like these thoughts, Misty.

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   4. Love what you wrote here!

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9. I agree with you Iwsod, I think the insomnia is just insomnia. Lee is lying to himself, and he’s displaying all the signs of a man who’s totally confused lurching from one sticky situation right into another. Normally so suave and sure of himself, especially where the ladies are concerned, he’s clearly not at ease with himself or his closest friend. Now he’s really seriously upset her and he knows it. No sleep for you tonight buddy!

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   1. Hey kiwismh! Whooooo.. I am thinking it was insomnia- but was it insomnia alone? Or insomnia and a new lady friend? I’m yet to figure out- this question is still hanging for me 🙂 we’ll see!:-)

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      1. Yeah, I think he is telling the truth about the insomnia but I am not convinced that is all it is. I go back and forth as to whether I think there is more than kissing going on with the new girlfriend, but I have to admit I am leaning on the side that there is. I can’t really say why yet because we haven’t really got to that.

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         1. Yes, will have to discuss in upcoming episodes as I am thinking so far it is purely insomnia but I also have reasons to maintain that belief with what is coming up even though it might seem counter-intuitive. Stay tuned! 😉

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            1. Looking forward to it. I am pretty much convinced that there is more than insomnia going on, but I would love to be persuaded that I am wrong so I can’t wait to hear your arguments. The idea that Lee is hitting the sheets with someone else really rubs me the wrong way at this point.

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               1. I like to think it is only insomnia. I guess part of the reason I do is because the fact that there isn’t more going on may be what is keeping him awake. He may be bothered by the fact that he can’t or doesn’t want to have more going on.
                  I keeping thinking about Lee’s denials about something going on in his life. He has done it 3 times so far. That is all in one day. The only reason people think there is a hint of a serious relationship is because of his socks? It is a conclusion that Amanda and Francine and maybe even Billy have jumped to. I know there is the dress to, but it really sounded like a displacement plan to me. I am not convinced that any serious relationship is in Lee’s life yet. To deny a girlfriend 3 times… kind of sounds like Peter on Good Friday (there is no connection there for me, that just popped into my mind, did they do 3 denials on purpose?) Anyway, Lee must really be conflicted, or something to continue to deny so constantly, poor girl if it is supposed to be a serious relationship.

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                  1. Maybe Lee is able to deny having a new girlfriend so much because he can justify to himself that she’s not really a girlfriend if they are not sleeping together, but going back to the 3 denials, when Peter did that he was lying! I know that doesn’t mean anything. I am not convinced there is any connection. The 3 denials was probably just a coincidince.

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                     1. True, Peter was lying. I do believe that Lee is lying too. I guess I just wonder how much and to whom, Amanda, himself, maybe this other “friend”? But don’t worry, I really am not going to make that into a strong Biblical connection, I am sure it is just coincidence. 🙂

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                  2. To expound on your thoughts, Morley. I guess the reason I see Lee as being so bothered and frustrated in his new relationship is not because he can’t or doesn’t want something to happen. To me it goes back to what I said about Lee not wanting casual relationships because they are leaving him feeling empty and alone. Now he’s chosen someone he sees the potential to be serious about who he’s probably been dating for awhile, and I am guessing his relationship with her is still leaving him feeling empty and alone. I think he really did choose Leslie because he sees her as someone he can be serious about but the scene that tells me that hasn’t happened yet so I can’t really argue that point yet. I also really get the impression that they have slept together, but the scene that convinces me of that hasn’t happened yet either. Like I said I really would like to be persuaded that I am wrong but I don’t think I really will be until I can discuss that scene. However, your point about how Lee keeps denying he has a girlfriend could be because he doesn’t really see it that way yet because they haven’t gotten that serious yet is something to think about. Hope there are more things that could point to the fact that they are not.

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                     1. Who says he has a new girlfriend? I guess we will just have to wait to discuss this.

                        The thing I find so interesting is that here, in this comment, Lee seems so sincere. It is almost like he is incredulous that he is being accused as having a new girlfriend. Maybe this person in his life has been there for a while? I don’t think that is true, but that is what his denial sounds like to me. I just think that comment is really reflective of what his thoughts are about his own situation.

                        Amanda’s comment here are also very reflective of where she is at. She is miffed that something is occupying Lee and she is angered by the thought that it might take his attention off of her; whether it be their work together, their friendship, their growing closeness, or that he may be sliding down that scale of dissolution and dissipation, I don’t think she can distinguish.

                        Both of their actions in the next scene are also indications of where the other is choosing to put their efforts. Lee in trying to show Amanda that he does notice, and care. I really think what he has done at the police station, although it may be part of his job and for the Sullivans, is ultimately for Amanda. And Amanda’s response to stay stoic and professional is showing that she is still pretty guarded about how she is going to react to these changes.

                        I have no idea why I put that summary into my comment about the “girlfriend”? Maybe I need another cup of coffee…

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                        1. You may need coffee, I think I need something for my head. So much analysis of what’s going on under the surface in this episode. I think there is a lot going on under the surface, but I think we may be over analyzing Lee’s denial. Whether he is sleeping with the new girlfriend or not, he obviously has one. I think the denials are as simple as he is uncomfortable with Amanda knowing he has a girlfriend. Simple as that, and you notice he never comes out and right out says I don’t have a girlfriend. He’s just uncomfortable, and feels guilty IMO, so he doesn’t want to come right out an admit he has a new girlfriend either.

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                  3. Morley, one of my theories is that a lack of sexual desire for this new someone in his life would be a factor that would bother a man like Lee. And Misty, your point about him denying the girlfriend due to not actually having slept with her is one that had occurred to me as well. Don’t want to go into detail now as this discussion fits better in an upcoming post. For most men a relationship is not a relationship without the physical aspect. I have also noticed that lack or loss of physical performance seems to be a universal fear amongst men. Not being “up” keeps them up… as it were. 😉 That’s one for the gutter club.

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                     1. I like the way you are thinking kiwismh. Could this theory also be why he drummed up that ridiculous black dress scheme? Could he be remembering a time that he was experiencing the feeling he seems to be lacking now?

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                        1. Yes, the black dress fiasco is also another piece of evidence I have to support my theory.
                           When I first saw SMK in the 1980’s (my late teens early 20’s) I just assumed Lee and his new lady were sleeping together. It was good to come back to SMK 4 years ago, refreshed from barely having given it a thought for 20 years, and see it with much more mature and experienced insight. Some of the assumptions I made the first time I saw the series don’t hold up now. This will be a great discussion when we get a little further along in the posts for this episode.

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                           1. I agree, the first time I had watched it since the 80’s I zipped through it and I was confused by so many things I was assuming were there. So I spent time relooking at it (a hardship indeed) with a blank slate of opinion except a basic trust that these two actors really knew their characters and their backstory and were going to do it justice. So I played around with the order and my assumptions and I found a whole new and even more wonderful story. I may be making the whole thing up, but I like it. 🙂 I am looking forward to the discussion.

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10. I’ve been thinking about Amanda a bit more and her reactions here. I agree Iwsod, I don’t think she has been jealous before when she has “bristled” about his romances. Previously I got the feeling she was disappointed that he diminished himself by not being more responsible/mature in his relationships. It’s like Amanda has always thought highly of Lee as he does have many fine character traits, and these have only become more apparent over the last couple of years, but in this one aspect of his life he lets himself down. I also suspect she thought none of the women he entertained would hold his interest long term so as they came and went there was no real impact on her growing friendship and partnership with Lee.
    There seems to have been no lady friends about since Randi-baby, so may be Amanda has been lulled into a false sense of security that Lee has matured and left that life behind now. Somehow it’s like she didn’t contemplate he would start a serious relationship with someone, or more likely she just hasn’t given it any thought. She certainly wouldn’t have foreseen the feelings this scenario has churned up in her. Her un-Amanda-like behaviour seems to me to be a manifestation of churned up personal feelings.
    It seems since Randi-baby, Lee and Amanda have spent more time together both professionally and personally. As I’ve said previously and others have commented, I think in the last few months with Lee becoming so much more mature and settled she may deep down, without even really realising it, begun to somehow think of Lee as hers. Have her natural female instincts been at work behind the scenes tagging Lee as a potential life partner? I think so. Cindy got me thinking again about this angle with her comments on whether Amanda is displaying friend jealousy or romantic jealousy. Amanda’s comments to Lee were so pointed – lack of sleep and new girlfriend. I don’t see any grey area there. Only a woman who has a romantic interest in a guy would throw those comments in his face. There’s no doubt about it – this is about him tearing up the sheets with a new woman. Worse, one he seems to be serious about, and worse one he’d like to dress in Amanda’s clothes!
    Maybe during the drive to the Police Station Amanda had a little thinking time, thus by the end of this scene at the Police Station she’s grateful for Lee’s help but this time she’s not letting him off the hook with one good deed. You can still see her admiration for him in her eyes, but she is also aware and wary. The smile for him that normally lights up her whole face just isn’t there anymore. For right now it seems she has decided to fortify her defences and stick to being professional and business-like as the best means of avoiding more hurt and upset.

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    1. I put the comment about natural instinct in bold as I recalled Iwsod and others having a discussion about conscious and sub-conscious a while back. I’ve never been sure about the power of sub-conscious thoughts, but I’m a great believer in humans still having strong natural instinctive tendencies. Having said that, I heard an interesting interview today on Radio New Zealand about The Benefits of Doing Nothing which included some relevant discussion on the sub-conscious and suppressed thoughts. Here’s a link for those who are interested. It’s about 30 minutes long but well worth a listen.

       I hope that link works, otherwise go to : http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon
       and find the content for Wednesday 9 April –
       Andrew Smart – the benefits of doing nothing ( 30′ 28″ )
       Andrew Smart is a neuroscience researcher and the author of Autopilot. He explains the art and science of being idle as a necessary means to creativity and greater productivity.

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    2. Whooooo! Like this kiwismh!!
       Love your question u bolded –
       I’m thinking Amanda has unconsciously been doing just that!!! She is now starting to become aware of it- though for me the big moment of awareness for Amanda is yet to come..
       Though I think she would see she’s a bit jealous here.. And v quickly put that out of her mind.. I can’t fully explain why i See it this way. There’s so much to say but I’ll need to hold off till we’ve got a bigger picture here!
       Great question!!
       What does everyone else think?

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       1. I don’t think Amanda is going to admit at any point this is jealousy. I think she probably recognizes that it is but pushes that to the side, stuffs it back in the Tupperware as people like to say here. Just like Lee never admitted he was jealous. I think all of this is a huge slap in the face to her and she’s not ready to reconcile it yet.

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       2. I agree that Amanda would recognize her jealousy and be rather invested in trying to put it out of her mind.

          I like the bolded question as well. I don’t think she knows that she has been allowing herself in fits and starts to ask herself that bolded question, I think it may surprise her that she has. Kind of like someone (sorry, don’t remember who) mentioned Amanda being surprised at how close to the edge she was after the dress conversation.

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       3. I think I’m thinking along your lines. 😉

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          1. Me three! It’s amazing how you can be so sure that you are fine fine fine while underneath it all you are not even close to okay. (And love what I have read about Andrew Smart’s approach. We live in an overscheduled world that’s accelerated vastly since SMK times. Watching the show reminds me of that. Just a tangent….)

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11. Well, I have to admit, I do see this as no bones about it, jealously. Amanda is not even trying to hold the the Tupperware lid on momentarily. Oh, she’ll kind of get it back on, but for now, it’s blown off IMHO. 🙂
    Love what y’all have said here. Oh, to be able to delineate my thoughts as clearly……..runs back down the rabbit hole to replay this delicious scene

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12. I am sure there are going to be some great comments on this one, as there already have been. It’s just interesting to note that even though no one, including Lee, has specifically stated that Lee has a new girlfriend that is where Amanda’s head (and heart) have been thinking thus far. It has truly been one lollapalooza of a day for her. And I am loving this feisty, won’t take any guff, Amanda. She certainly can be silky sweet, when she’s being snarky. It has certainly left Lee off-balance.

    But it is nice to know that Lee knows what “that look” of Amanda’s means. And it’s good that he didn’t just sit back and not do anything else. He made sure to step up and help out as best as he could. He knew Amanda wasn’t going to leave it alone. He is still trying to somewhat either placate or make up for whatever grief he has caused Amanda.

    He must have thought he did a pretty good job of covering up whatever was going on with him. I think that Lee understands just how well Amanda can see things when it comes to helping solve cases with the Agency and he can see how adept she is with helping others and taking care of them. I wonder if he thinks that she can’t read him that well or that as the Scarecrow he can keep things on the down low better than anyone else. Maybe that is the cause of some of his confusion. Amanda does tend to surprise him still with the things she can come up with and the things she does. And I think it continues to happen. He is surprised that Amanda has figured it all out, even though he may have thought he was being sort of covert about the whole thing. I don’t think Lee can read Amanda as well as she can read him.

    Not sure if any of that made sense. It’s been a long day…

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    1. Well said Valerie!! At the end of a long day? You’ve done v well!!! 🙂

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13. This is a new Amanda to Lee, but there are also new boundaries too. Amanda is recognizing them. Lee is trying to compartmentalize and have Amanda as only a work friend, but he can’t help his personal tender responses to her and I think that confuses him. He recognizes them and tries to not respond that way and so here he begins to respond like her superior again, pointing his finger at her, and yet he can’t do that either. Neither of them are really clear about where the boundaries are or – and I think this is the main question- can this relationship of theirs be contained in boundaries.
    Oh, yes, I think all the references to this other “friend” was percolating inside of Amanda all day! And I think her comment also shows that for Amanda things have become completely de compartmentalized. Yes she is a bit
    jealous, but maybe not all romantic jealousy. I think she liked being a focus of friendship for Lee. They are partners and have a close friendship that was changing both of them and something has shifted. Lee has been preoccupied and busy with thinking about dresses, ones that came from a nice time with her, for someone else. I don’t think she planned to come at him like that, I don’t think she has had time to think through the way she really feels and what her motives for saying that to him truly are because if she had the time she would have gotten a handle on it.
    I think she can tell that something has shifted with Lee now. I think she can pick up on the displacement that Lee is attempting (that is keeping him up all night to keep in place) she can sense it. She picked up on it (maybe intuitively) during the dress conversation, she could probably also sense the tenderness in his hug at the bombing and I think her comment here about the new girlfriend is a gut level, “hey, what about me?” kind of comment. Of course, I really don’t think any of this has been thought through by her.
    That comment of Lee’s, “Who says I have a new girlfriend?” is the smoking gun. I agree, he is lying to himself. Amanda probably couldn’t have really heard him. It is like he is trying to convince the air. This, to me, is such an important line coming from Lee. Could you imagine season 1 or 2 Lee standing there in the bullpen saying something like that to anyone in general, but to Amanda King specifically (as she marched away)?
    I always notice the way Lee looks at Mr. Sullivan and Amanda (in that 2nd picture of Lee with Manny) he is very aware of Amanda’s presence there. And I do think that smile a few moments later is a warm smile, but I think he may also be smiling at Amanda’s smiling reaction. There is also sadness or wistfulness as well. The ideas of families maybe one that Lee is allowing to touch him in someway I think. I also think he likes Amanda’s concern for families.
    I do think he is bashful as Amanda approaches him. I don’t think he has behaved like that, maybe only when Amanda has remarked on some other woman’s attraction to him like in SOS? But never like this. I think he is trying to show Amanda that he does notice her, in response to her comment to him earlier outside the bullpen. He notices her care for Elisabeth and families, her opinion and insight about the case. But I also think it is more. I find it impressive that he moved so quickly to show her.
    But she isn’t fawning over him and I think he knows it isn’t going to get fixed right away, I don’t think either of them knows what needs fixing or how to. But I do think he knows that it is important to have his friendship with Amanda on track, just what track? And I think Amanda is trying to figure him out as well. Has he gone back to his old ways? No… is this something new? And how are these differences in Lee and his life going to affect their friendship which she has become so important to her?

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    1. Like this too, Morley. Some good stuff!!

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    2. I like the way you put this, Morley.

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    3. I agree that Lee is smiling at Amanda smiling at the family!

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14. This post contains two huge moments for Lee, although I don’t think he consciously realises right now how important they are. All he is feeling at the moment is confused – he still can’t quite bring himself to fit the pieces together and examine his true feelings. The moments and the feelings associated with those moments he will likely recall and contemplate over the coming days, weeks, months.
    Yep, Amanda’s jealous all-right. She’s upset about Elizabeth and SOB, but you’ll notice when Lee stops her here she doesn’t mention a thing about them – a big part of her frustration and annoyance is with Lee, and it’s personal. On one level she is frustrated and annoyed that he is not taking her professional concerns about SOB and a possible miscarriage of justice more seriously, but here we see an expression of what is going on for her personally at a deeper level. Lee’s lack of sleep and “new girlfriend” aren’t really anything to do with Elizabeth Sullivan and SOB. Amanda is normally pretty good at covering her inner thoughts and feelings – for all she talks she doesn’t really give away much about herself personally. But here she does reveal what is really bugging her, even though she probably hasn’t even been able to admit it to herself yet. Not only does she reveal it but she reveals in a very “snarky” un-Amanda-like way, which really tells me this comes mainly from feelings of hurt and jealousy.
    However, having said that, it is what Lee needed to hear and maybe the only way he will listen is if Amanda does step outside of her normal behavioural pattern. Love how Lee is momentarily stunned, I think both by what she’s said and by the way she said it. “Who says I have a new girlfriend” – well, duh, you pretty much have today buddy! I see the look he gives the person who is passing by just as he says this – I can see they would be grinning or rolling their eyes at Lee’s antics and the fact that he’s getting a telling off from Mrs King. 🙂
    So, Lee must have literally run out to the Corvette and raced to the Police Station to get their ahead of Amanda. Not only that but by the time she gets there he’s managed to get Elizabeth sprung from jail. Maybe Amanda should give him a rev up more often if it gets him this motivated! 😉
    The second big moment for Lee is watching the Sullivan reunion. This is a big moment emotionally for him – this family stuff does actually give him a good feeling, a deep down satisfying feeling he’s hardly known all his life. Again, I think this is a feeling that will stay with him and give him pause for thought, maybe it will force him to re-examine his assumptions about himself.
    For all that he doesn’t think he can lead a normal life or be a family man, he is a great protector of the family ideal. We’ve seen in the past the lengths he will go to, to protect “normal” people and families, or even just to make things right, e.g. the lengths he went to in S1 to make sure Philip got all his birthday presents and that they arrived in time.
    Very swoony pics Iwsod. I noticed in the last of those 4 pics of Lee watching the Sullivan reunion that he no longer seems to be looking at them but more looking inward, if that makes any sense. Does anyone else see this, or are you all passed out from the swoony-ness of it all? I’m a trained professional and have steeled myself to withstand the “drop dead gorgeousness” that is Lee Stetson. 😉
    Iwsod, I agree with you, Lee is somewhat sheepish and bashful. He knew somehow he had to make things right with Amanda, although I don’t think that’s the only reason he got Elizabeth sprung from jail – he probably realises too that the case against her just doesn’t add up. He’s still getting used to the emotions he is feeling, and the moment he has just witnessed with the Sullivans has really made him super-aware that he’s emotionally not on steady ground right now.
    Amanda is grateful, but cooler than she would normally be. He’s gained a couple of brownie points, but she is wary. I think she has just put up her own defences around her heart and feelings for now.
    Yikes, late for an appointment. Gotta go!
    Looking forward to reading everyone else’s comments. 🙂

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    1. Liking this a lot, Kiwismh. I always like how you can just break things down and put them so well.

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15. Oh wow, where to begin — I feel I could write pages on Amanda’s snarky scene alone. I think what is going on her is sometime between season 2 and 3 (actually I think it was crystallized in MBF) Amanda realizes she does not like the dynamic of her relationship with the agency and the professional relationship with Lee. It must have been a huge shock to the system to work with Byron who valued her opinion and was going to pay her well for her work. We already see her being more assertive and taking initiative in WTAMB. I think she her patience has worn very, very thin and the dress comment tipped it for her,
    Not that Lee’s comment was the worse he’s ever done (I chalk it up to CMS — Clueless Male Syndrome) — just look at how awful was in Artful Dodger and Amanda let his behaviour in that horrible episode slide, but she is done. She has made the conscious or unconscious decision not to put up with anyone’s crap anymore and she is very willing to let Billy and Francine know she is not to be messed with. YOU GO, GIRL!
    Amanda’s world has been rocked with the change in Lee and she is feeling his loss of companionship but I have to feel for Lee here — the one constant in his life, his biggest supporter and cheerleader no matter what he did is now pi$$ed off at him and he can’t figure out why. (CMS)
    Poor Amanda — Lee’s unwillingness to work with her, comparing her to another woman (NEVER OK GUYS — DOESN’T MATTER IF YOU ARE ROMANTICALLY INVOLVED, JUST FRIENDS OR EVEN CLOSELY RELATED — DON’T DO IT!), and abandoning her and actually endangering her life for this new woman causes all kinds of hurt even if she only thought of Lee as a close friend. Is there romantic jealousy here? I am not sure, I am on the fence about it — but at the very least she is jealous of whatever is coming between her and Lee.
    I also love at the police station (and Lee must have broken a whole bunch of speed limits to get there before her) that she didn’t gush over him. She is still angry and hurt and not going to swallow it like she normally does. “Good Move.”. Those two little words delivered in that way tells Lee finally he is doing the bare minimum of his job. Again, poor Lee — this is quite the change in Amanda who has been his rock for 2 years and I applaud it!
    On another note — I love the actor that plays Manny — he looks so tired and weary here. Well done!

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    1. Like 🙂

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    2. Cindy, you are spot on with your comments! Yep, CMS is real and thriving in SMKland :). Oh, and not to make you feel bad ladies, but it’s a lifelong syndrome. On the other hand, my friends and I constantly are entertained (or enraged) at our more-than-middle-aged husbands who still suffer from CMS. Gotta love ’em!

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    3. Like this, Cindy. Also, what you said about Manny just caused me to remember that he was in an episode of Miami Vice and was playing a very similar role, tired and weary, to the point of almost blowing a case.

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    4. Like this Cindy. Amanda is definitely done with not being taken seriously by both Lee and Agency, especially since MBF.
       I do think there must an element of romantic jealousy in Amanda’s reaction. It would be immature and a bit controlling of her to think that he could never have any close friends other than her. I don’t get jealous when friends have other friends. I would get jealous though if I had deeper feelings for a male friend (whether or not they were acknowledged) yet he developed a close friendship with another female or females. Not only has Lee done that (or appears to have done that) but he has virtually rubbed Amanda’s nose in it with the dress conversation. It’s gotta be CMS – although I think men are often deliberately clueless from my experience 😦

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       1. Hmmmm. I will think about this some more. I have been known to indulge in the snark on occasion (Shocking, I know!) and there has been times (many moons ago when we were all a lot younger and less wise) when our group of friends was ditched by someone in the throes of a new relationship. Cancelling plans, standing us up, etc. Then, when the relationship ended we were suddenly good enough to be around again and I know I have said some really pithy comments. I know I am projecting (and not saying there wasn’t some romantic jealousy in play here especially if this episode is after ALLA — I can’t make up my mind!) I could see Amanda reacting this way because she had to deal with sleezo eyeball guru dude ALONE, and could have been killed or seriously hurt because Lee abandoned her and his job where he was supposed to take Amanda spring cleaning. And that was a direct order from Billy. And perhaps if Lee had been there, Elizabeth would not have been arrested in the first place because Hotshot SpyGuy is deemed to be a more credible eyewitness.

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          1. But like I said, I am projecting and Amanda is much nicer than me. 🙂

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          2. I used to think that this episode made much more sense after ALLA but now I can see how it makes much more sense, for both Lee and Amanda, if ALLA is right after OTL. But we shall talk no more of it else the wrath of Iwsod shalt come down on me like ye olde tonne of bricks for thinking ahead and not examining the moment and all that has gone before, which I must admit is indeed more illuminating than analysing current events around future happenings. You are so wise in these matters Iwsod. 😉

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             1. Hey kiwismh, hope you saw my reply to Cindy.. I gave the link to the episode order post over on Neds where ALLA can be discussed now if you like 🙂

                kiwismh wrote:

                But we shall talk no more of it else the wrath of Iwsod shalt come down on me like ye olde tonne of bricks for thinking ahead and not examining the moment..

                Gah!!!! don’t joke about that! I hate being the bad guy!! 😦

                kiwismh wrote:

                …thinking ahead and not examining the moment and all that has gone before, which I must admit is indeed more illuminating than analysing current events around future happenings. You are so wise in these matters Iwsod. 😉

                Awh!!! Thanks kiwismh! That’s sweet of you to say! I learn a lot from you all as we together try and stay with the moment! 🙂

                But don’t forget – there is always Neds for anyone to discuss things that are ahead [just do share it with us here on JWWM too when we get to it please 🙂 ]

                I’ve gotta sign off.. but thanks again kiwismh, you have honestly made my night with your comments! I know it is difficult to not jump ahead- but glad to hear someone else say they think it is worth it 🙂
                Byeee

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                1. Nope, not a bad guy, IWSOD. Never. And hey, it’s your blog so if you decided we all had to discuss SMK in Klingon, I would have to oblige (though I hope you don’t – I gave away my Klingon-English dictionary when I moved. Seriously) And I am deliriously happy with any order as long as WTAMB came first and Q Bureau was resolved.

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          3. ugh!!! I just wrote a big comment and it got eaten! grrrr..

             Cindy your comment:

             I can’t make up my mind!

             this jumped out at me! 🙂

             I haven’t made up my mind either Cindy – and I think that’s okay. It’s all part of the journey.. I like to keep questions in mind as I progress and revisit them – can I answer that yet?? sometimes not.. and I let the question hang.. waiting for an eventual answer that I know will come eventually on this journey.

             I just wanted to mention that I understand Morley’s season 3 order is not definitive and I will definitely want to revisit this order too!!! Though at the same time- I’m really enjoying it 🙂

             I am really looking forward to hearing your thoughts on ALLA and the order Cindy!!!

             If you don’t want to wait to discuss this there is a thread over on Nedlindger’s HERE
             Where we discussed how JWWM should approach the first five episodes of season 3.. and Morley’s order was decided upon by a number of us – talking about what’s in the first five episodes of season 3. I won’t be stopping by and revisiting the question of the episode order until I’ve blogged all the first five episodes – but others may want to join you in that discussion now..

             So while JWWM isn’t the place for discussing ALLA just now- because in Morley’s order it’s ‘ahead’ – you can discuss it over at Nedlindger’s anytime you like.. or it will definitely be discussed here when we get to it! I’m busting to talk about them all with you guys! I am keeping these kinds of questions in mind for now myself happy to have not made up my mind yet 🙂

             lol.. you know you are right Cindy, if Mr Hotshot spy had been there- the agency would have realised that ahem there was a witness who can clear Elizabeth! 😉 heck.. maybe the agency wonders if Amanda is in on it 😉 whahahaaaa! wouldn’t shock me! Oh I know.. Lee’s new girlfriend is in on it!

             hey I’m especially interested to hear everyone’s take on why Lee is still denying he has a new girlfriend?!!! After what he said in the dress conversation??
             Do you think he is lying to Amanda here??
             or does he really believe he doesn’t have a new girlfriend??
             How??!!

             thoughts??

             OH btw – I think busy is my new normal.. I’m going to take a leaf out of BJo and Happy Camper’s book- and I’ll let you know if I get extra smk time and can go smk crazy.. otherwise.. I’m doing my best to write blog posts and respond to comments when I can – but it’s not going to be as much as I use to 😦 boo!!

             I’ll be reading comments and relishing them always though! (LOL I’ve taken to reading them on the bus!)

             byee for now!

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             1. Iwsod, his denying he had a new girlfriend seemed to me an exasperated retort laced with guilt and bewilderment. When he said that I was reminded of the tone of what he said in Brunettes when he and Amanda resumed their argument after Lee came back to the house – “I don’t even know what I said anymore!”
                I think he knows he has a “girlfriend” but he also knows there’s something terribly wrong with the whole scenario that he just can’t bring himself to admit.

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                1. The brunettes quote? Good one kiwismh! So true! Same mannerism with the arms too!!!
                   How cool is it- all these minds keeping an eye out for previous smk references!

                   Poor Lee he is one very confused dude right now! 🙂

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                   1. I’ve just read all these wonderful post 8 comments and I’m one confused dudette right now….

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                      1. You are in good company, right there with Lee and Amanda 😉

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