2/2 Discussion of Lee and Amanda’s Love Story

Hello my fellow smk fans!

JWWM typically focuses on following the journey, sticking with the story as an episode unfolds and staying in the moment with the characters… However, if we don’t step back and look at the big picture we can miss out on some great discussions…insights and fun!! The big picture does come up during episode discussions.. but I thought it could be handy to provide one place to place these thoughts if anyone is so inclined to share- at any time!

It’s come to my attention that 1/2 (1/2 Discussion of Lee and Amanda’s Love Story) needs a 2/2 lol! Sooo here it is! Smile As I publish this post, the walk has finished season 3, and moved on to early season 4 – so it’s a good time to ponder the journey up till this point and call out to all smk fans who stop by JWWM and ask:

How do you see Lee and Amanda’s love story so far? What phases do you see this story moving through?
What individual phases do they undergo that impact the love story?

What were the big milestone episodes for you and why?
When we say ‘love’ does this mean different things at different points in the story for you?

Don’t feel restricted to addressing these questions.. roam and explore the overall love story however you like. Just please remember to not refer to anything that hasn’t been covered in the walk yet… thanks guys! 🙂 I fully expect we will see different things.. honestly, there is no one right way to see things.. I love to hear others thoughts and ideas – they help me to explore and expand my own too.

A great discussion in post 10/19 Season Four Episode Two: Stemwinder Part II prompted this focus on the big picture..
In this post, Amanda says:
We have each other; that’s something.
[No I will not post another image of those hideous sunglasses of doom]
Lee responds:
Yeah. It’s more than most people in this business will ever have. I didn’t think we’d have to go through anything like this to find out that we’ve got it.

Okay safe to share this image Winking smile
Lee and Amanda have come so far!!!
From this in TFT:
TFT.avi_000292417
[‘Just walk with me’!]
To this in the Stemwinders:

[Just run away with me?! Winking smile ]
There is so much to talk about.. if you feel like putting your thoughts together and sharing your take on the development of their love story please share with us here.. All views are very welcome – and no one is going to tell you that you are wrong here!!!
As Amanda says: When you’re talking about love you have to be patient Smile
We may disagree on a few bits.. but that’s cool no one’s thoughts are more valuable or accurate than any others in my book!! Smile [Except maybe Francine’s and Dr Smyth’s!!! I draw the line there!!! Smile ] If you would like to put together a blog post on your thoughts- rather than comment on this blog post to share them? I’d be very happy to publish it for you too!!

I look forward to hearing people’s take on this wonderful love story!
[keep the smelling salts handy!]

19 responses to “2/2 Discussion of Lee and Amanda’s Love Story

  1. Lee and Amanda’s whole relationship began because Amanda had a look of someone who was trustworthy. Lee picked her out of a crowded train station. She showed confidence in her walk and purpose. Lee, normally a person who hides his true emotions, but can turn on the charm to get what he wants, was in desperate need at that exact moment. He had no time for charm, just raw emotion (he is capable of it right from the beginning even though he might not believe it or trust in it since he constantly falls back on what is easier – a look and a smile to get what he wants). Amanda is a very perceptive person and can see his sincerity. Her response would have been completely different, IMO, had he tried to charm her into taking the box. This look into who they truly are, right from the beginning is the basis of their relationship. No matter how things change over the course of the next 4 years, they have seen each other in their true selves. I think this is why they are able to work so well together right from the start. That look into each other’s eyes, gave them a much deeper look into their souls. Amanda, I think subconsciously realizes it, but it will take Lee much longer to realize what he saw that day and it is what he needs in his life.

    I think over the course of the series, Amanda is searching for the Lee she meet at the train station. She knows he is in there but is not willing to give herself to Lee until she sees what she saw in him that first day. She is patient, just as she tells him in AABH.

    My husband asked me a few weeks ago, what it is about Lee and Amanda’s relationship that makes me want to watch it over and over. I think it is because they are true to themselves and true to each other. When my family first met my now husband, my sister told me that he was the first guy she had seen me with that I was truly myself with. That meant a lot to me then, it still does now. Fast forward 15 years and three kids later. Without being too personal and cliche, over the last couple of years, I lost a part of myself. It was taking a toll on me and my family. After some serious self-reflection and a good therapist, I started to find what I had lost. My relationship with my husband is in a much better place and I believe it is because we are true to ourselves. So that’s my two cents. Their relationship rings very true for lots of people I believe. Of course, all the silliness is fun to watch and laugh at, but in all honesty, it’s their love story that brings me back again and again and again. And I don’t see myself stopping anytime soon.

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    • “Lee picked her out of a crowded train station. She showed confidence in her walk and purpose.”

      Yes, exactly! Also, Amanda did not walk with blinders on in the morning rush. She looked around, which showed Lee she was aware of her surroundings.

      “My relationship with my husband is in a much better place and I believe it is because we are true to ourselves. So that’s my two cents.”

      Thank you for reminding us to not take what we have for granted. What you worked to rekindle is absolutely priceless to you, your husband and children. I’m thinking others in your circle of influence were also blessed and even motivated to evaluate the health of their own relationships because they were witnesses to this restoration.

      “Their relationship rings very true for lots of people I believe. Of course, all the silliness is fun to watch and laugh at, but in all honesty, it’s their love story that brings me back again and again and again. And I don’t see myself stopping anytime soon.”

      Beautifully expressed, Emma! I don’t see myself stopping anytime soon, either.

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    • Lovely!!! thanks for sharing Emma! I think many of us can relate to smk having a special place in our hearts – and a connection to the things in our lives that really are special to us!!

      I was thinking Lee picked Amanda because she’s young and his charms would work well on her 😉 but.. your idea is much deeper and substantial 😉

      My husband asked me a few weeks ago, what it is about Lee and Amanda’s relationship that makes me want to watch it over and over.

      What a fabulous question for a hubby to ask!!! 🙂

      Of course, all the silliness is fun to watch and laugh at, but in all honesty, it’s their love story that brings me back again and again and again. And I don’t see myself stopping anytime soon.

      hear hear!!!! Me too Emma – Anyone else not planning on stopping any time soon??!!!!! Squeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!! 🙂

      Liked by 1 person

      • I think he asked because he has something in mind for christmas. We talked about it briefly but he’s been tight lipped about it since. I’m hoping he’s still planning on something and just wants it to be a surprise. I’m keeping my fingers crossed!

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  2. Love all the comments though. Lee & Amanda are our favourite people!

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  3. I think it begins in ITCK where Amanda will go to the wire for Lee – remember she’s the one who ‘breaks’ the conditioning; and then in SAMB when (I think) he’s shocked because he suddenly starts to see her as a sexual being – and the expression on his face when he carries her from the house – his world has just been cut from beneath him and certainly the way he threatens Delano are all telling signs; I’m not totally convinced by SBTB because I think Scarecrow would have done the same thing for Francine- that is he cares, but only because she was in the wrong place at the wrong time; then TLCE (in the script for this episode there’s quite an extended piece where Amanda rolls her sleeves up to dress Lee’s shoulder) where she rises to the occasion and even the Soviet Agents are impressed; I think things stay relatively calm after this, up to S because at this point Lee has really begun to care for her and can’t bear the thought that she’s a traitor; then we have ARS and even Lee’s uncle sees Amanda for who she is – and even tells Lee that she’s a step up from his usual dates; there is of course LOTP where even Francine (grudgingly) has to admit that Amanda has courage and cleverness. My opinion is that thing really start to change from OOADP because when Scarecrow is in the car with Amanda’s double, you can hear the concern in his voice and it’s no longer just ‘another agent’ in trouble, this is someone he’s beginning to care for deeply. Then you have YODT and the way his face falls when Billy tells him it’s Amanda – followed by BO where Amanda’s faith in him is almost absolute – I think begins to show how much these two are beginning to care for another. Season 3 really cements this and the audience get to see how much they’ve developed – episodes worth noting are TTOTDW where for the first half of the episode Lee and Amanda are at loggerheads; but my favourite still remains WN because it shows that Amanda isn’t a mouse that she will stand up for what she believes in and that even Lee acknowledges it when he says, ‘But our Agent of Record caught it.’ I think his pride and respect for her shows in that instant. The last three really just build on the relationship they have leading up to Stemwinder and their total faith and trust in one another. Sorry if I’ve gone on. The post just kind of ran away with me.

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    • Hiya Anchoret! Really wonderful to hear from you!! It’s been a while I think??
      so glad you are still walking with us 🙂

      How flippin awesome it is to get on here and read someone’s thoughts on this love story?!
      Of course- headslap tee hee.. How could I have forgotten service above and beyond?! the big episode that really challenged Lee and his view of Amanda as a sexually desirable woman (and by extension- the american housewife)..

      Whoooo Wrong Number is a wonderful episode!
      You know what? I think it might be that different episodes appeal to different people for different reasons, at different times in our lives – Even in their love story, there are so many elements and interactions – I enjoy different aspects at different times.. and find myself relating to different parts of the story at different times in my life. Sorry I know I tend to drift into psychobabbley directions.. ahem..

      Anyway – I really wanted to share that, while short comments- any comments rock- I get a special little delight in reading a longer comment where someone pulls together their thoughts on the love story of this wonderful couple.. so thanks Anchoret – so glad this post just ran away with you! 🙂

      I think things stay relatively calm after this, up to S because at this point Lee has really begun to care for her and can’t bear the thought that she’s a traitor;

      This is referring to Spiderweb? I love Spiderweb.. Lee looks so lost at even the idea that Amanda could be a traitor it’s positively endearing 😉 and very telling – how it would shock him to his core if she is not who he thinks she is: It is THAT important to him. Whoa.
      Not many TV shows give that kind of a narrative these days…

      What does everyone think of YODT and OOADP?
      No pressure to share btw- this thread can stay open for years to come 🙂 and the conversation will continue 🙂 If or when you are ready to jump in and share thoughts: you will be welcome!

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      • Hi iwsod, I haven’t been around much because I’ve just been feeling dreadful. Finally had a fairly positive diagnosis from my doctor who thinks it’s most likely Fibromyalgia – I do still read everything. Promise!

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        • Anchoret I’m sorry to hear of your health challenge!! There is another smk fan here who has the same diagnosis..
          [If either of you are interested in connecting offline, email me and I’ll facilitate this for ya]

          No pressure to participate here Anchoret, anytime you feel like jumping in feel free – you are always welcome!

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  4. Amanda and Lee are In Love and Having Fun with the ‘Dangerous Thrilling Spy Work’ or just getting to know each other. For me that is enough to make a great Love Story. Now, I have not read every single comment(I am busy with some translation work) so I may have missed similar comments? I will add that this site just shows how great Lee and Amanda’s Love Story is even after all these years.

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  5. Hiya everyone, continuing on with this discussion..
    Katjielee wrote:

    iswod, mention Lee’s view on the American housewife? I know that he sees the housewife as tedious and boring and not someone with whom he’d have any kind of relationship. Then again, at the time,he wasn’t looking for any kind of relationship except the fleeting, one-night kind.

    Whooooo now this is super interesting! in my hazy thinking i wrote “what about Lee’s view of the American housewife? I think Lee was pushing Amanda away at the beginning, and I’m not sure he would have bedded her.” and I think this is what you’ve replied to yes Katjielee?

    I didn’t spell out what Lee’s view of the American housewife was. And.. this is where the whole Lee and Amanda love story starts isn’t it!!
    With Lee’s pre-existing views of women like Amanda.. and Amanda’s pre-existing views of men like Lee! 🙂

    Just focusing on Lee’s pre-existing view of the American housewife here in this comment.. I agree with katjielee’s idea that Lee viewed the housewife as boring – not someone with whom he’d have a relationship of any kind as you say katjielee. But – I have to go and complicate things! haaaaa…
    I think that is true but I also think there is another layer here!
    The other layer is how he views women in that role –
    With IMHO perfect timing, Nancy just commented on a comment of Morley’s from years ago! – back in the blog post ‘Lee’s journey: from the First Time…. to Spiderweb‘ – it relates directly to this idea..
    I hope Nancy and Morley both won’t mind – I’ll copy and paste your comments here:
    -quote-
    Morley | April 4, 2013 at 7:47 am |
    I don’t know if this fits with this post (which I thoroughly enjoyed) But I kept thinking these thoughts while I read it… It is almost as if there is a place for Lee to be drawn to a woman like Amanda because of the kind of woman that his mother appears to have been. She is portrayed in the series as a warm, strong, adventuresome woman, who happens to also be a homemaker (as well as a brunette). I think that type of a woman might be imprinted on Lee’s subconscience and that part of him recognizes this about Amanda right off. Of course that would probably make him run and hide behind all those well crafted defenses. The other thing that I keep thinking about is how the goodness and trustworthiness of this type of woman was reinforced for Lee through his training and close friendship with Emily Farnsworth. I also noticed that all of the women that Lee seems drawn to for significant, normal relationships are brunettes. Maybe all this is thinking too deeply and maybe the writers didn’t think that far, but hey I thought it so there it is 🙂 So glad there is a place to put these thoughts, Thanks!

    Nancy | November 15, 2017 at 2:39 pm |
    Though many years have passed since you posted this, Morley (I found JWWM just before the S4 walk began), I am in complete agreement with these thoughts of yours about Lee’s mother, Lady Emily and Amanda:

    “… I think that type of a woman might be imprinted on Lee’s subconscience and that part of him recognizes this about Amanda right off. . . . The other thing that I keep thinking about is how the goodness and trustworthiness of this type of woman was reinforced for Lee through his training and close friendship with Emily …”
    Spot on!
    -end quote-

    I think Lee deep down revered the American housewife! Highly prized the concept.. and was drawn to it…while being simultaneously trying to distance himself from it- because he was deeply uncomfortable with the whole concept! He’s a complicated guy! 😉

    Building on this reverence – I think Lee was also deeeeeply uncomfortable with the American housewife being a sexual being! having sexual desires.. and being sexually desirable!!!!
    I think Lee’s sexual attraction to Amanda from the start was very unsettling to him!!! [thus I don’t think he would have bedded her early on..]

    This is just my take on things.. In my thinking – this is where the whole conversation in TGTN leads: Amanda gives Lee that sideways look as he stands there talking about who gets the bed with his shirt open.. ahem.. and what would people think? and Lee’s response?
    Get your mind out of the gutter!
    like: American housewives are not supposed to think things like that
    – when we know good and well that Lee has gotten up to all kinds of mischief no doubt and Amanda’s question is maybe closer to the truth than he wants to admit or consider!!!
    Another moment that highlighted this attitude toward the sexuality of the american housewife:
    When Lee is having hot and steamy dreams- and Amanda says it’s ‘probably sexual. (Freud would say)’. Lee looks (hilariously) appalled to be having this conversation with Amanda haaaa like YOU are not supposed to say things like that!!! Why not her Lee?! 😉
    Then , we have Lee’s gag to Francine about never underestimating the stamina of the American housewife. I take this to be Lee trying to gross out Francine at the thought he doesn’t really believe it – at that point in time, Lee and Francine (I shudder to think) were on the same page! A bit like Lee is ridiculing the idea..

    In Sudden Death: Lee gets knocked for six by his reaction to that kiss – no way did he think that was going to happen.. he was totally caught by surprise and unprepared that he would respond like that and feel like that when kissing an American housewife!! well.. THIS American housewife! 🙂
    I think he shifted heavily into denial.. and then.. we have….

    Filming Raul! – and Lee’s off the cuff remark that Amanda ‘isn’t the type’ (for a clandestined love affair).
    No sooner is Amanda challenging this, than Lee and Amanda pretend make out – because it’s ‘much more natural’ – and Lee is soooo close to turning it into another kiss.. forgetting where he is.. what is his name.. not hearing Francine banging on the window rofl- he is completely disassembled by this moment and cannot have Amanda leave that car quick enough!
    Maybe this is the big moment where he stops denying that his pre-existing views are not accurate.. and he treads much more carefully here in future!!

    What do you all think? do tell!! and no you don’t have to do massive comments like this first two of mine!!! eek!!! sorry just gettin the ball rolling and copying and pasting over fantastic ideas you have all shared!

    Oh my gosh.. spending a bit of time focusing on Lee and Amanda is THE best way to start a day!!
    Bye all!!

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    • iwsod, it’s fine with me that you pulled my “kudos to Morley” post into this discussion.

      Whatever Lee’s true opinion was about housewives, it sounds to me like he made a 180 degree turn during the TGTN episode. The full quote of what Lee said to Francine and Billy was: “I’ve gained a lot of respect for the generosity and stamina of the American housewife.” Yes, Francine was being snarky and superior, but my impression of Lee? He was sincere. In regards to the sexuality issue, maybe it’s not housewives per se, but virtuous women Lee holds in such pristine regard — as a stark contrast to the loose morals gals he’s used to and that includes the Elisa Danton types.

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  6. Hi Everyone.. I’m going to copy over the discussion from 10/19 stemwinder II that got the ball rolling.. feel free to continue it.. or branch off on to something else if you wish! 🙂 [fingers crossed this works]
    -start quote-
    katjielee | November 11, 2017 at 12:59 pm |
    BJo, I believe Amanda “knew” Lee loved her before he ever said it out loud; in fact, I think she “knew” he loved her before he knew he loved her. I agree with you that it was the piece she needed to feel totally secure, but I rather think she would have followed him anyway. and I also believe that it was her declaration of love to Lee that changed everything. Although she had a point that if she stayed she’d be in a holding cell and unable to help anyone, her profession of love to Lee made it acceptable to him that she should join him in this endeavor. He would NEVER leave her alone if the tables were turned, because he loves her, and now he can accept the same steely support from her because it’s not done just because of partnership, friendship, and loyalty, but from the ultimate pristine motivation of love. So intensely romantic!

    iwsod | November 12, 2017 at 9:54 am |
    Whooooo wonderful topic of conversation!
    Katjielee, when do you think Amanda knew Lee loved her? If not a particular moment, maybe an episode? or a part of a season?
    And.. when you say Lee loved her are you thinking love as in – He is head over heels committed to me and umm firmly hooked?
    or more of a – he has real genuine feelings for her alone?
    I find when we discuss the love topic at different times we can be thinking of ‘love’ slightly differently.. it’s a pretty nuanced concept – but then, for some I think they would define Love as not being nuanced it is or it isn’t.. I just know we all see it differently.. so I’m curious to hear your take Katjielee If you like..

    o katjielee | November 12, 2017 at 4:25 pm |
    iwsod, my opinion as to when Amanda knew Lee loved her is subject to change. Frequently. But right now, I’m going to go with the kiss on Ship of Spies being her wake up call (and possibly his too.) I believe there are many kinds and levels of love (definitely nuanced) and Lee went through every one of them trying desperately to put on the brakes. At the time of SOS, I think this might have been the first time he could see her in “that way.” By “that way” I mean merely as possible dating material. And I really think she could tell by his kiss, and his look of utter shock, that he was greatly affected. He sought HER out to go on a honeymoon cruise, and regardless of cost, he could have chosen someone else and she knows that. Looking backward, do I think he would have bedded her in TGTN? Yes! He’s a naughty boy, and I think he was always aware of her physical beauty, but there would obviously have been no emotion at that point in time. Why is that relevant? I do not think he would have taken her to bed by SOS because there were deeper things going on he was avoiding with specific intent. Virtually every show after SOS shows Lee’s increasing affection and respect for his partner. If he didn’t love her by SOS, then definitely by Burn Out. At that point, it was probably like “If I were the serious kind, I’d want you…” kind of love, not a madly-in-love-I’ve-got-to-have-you love. I’m not sure how Lee would have handled it had Amanda not chosen to forgive him, and regardless of her accommodating nature, it was definitely a CHOICE she made. Lee, then, made the choice to put himself out there for real and truly apologize and let her see how very much she mattered to him. I think he cares greatly for Francine as a friend, but he would NEVER have done this with her, imo.
    I think great love is always anchored in friendship so this question of yours is very difficult to answer simply because of the nuances. What do YOU think, iwsod?

    iwsod | November 13, 2017 at 7:27 am |
    Whoo hooo!!! Love this topic
    Sorry katjielee I don’t have time to respond as I would like right now but will get here to reply soon.
    I’m just getting into the start of my work week on a Monday morning (my time)…. Thanks for sharing!!!
    Anyone else feel like sharing their take on this?
    [I see Nancy has too- cool! again: I’ll try and get back here to respond soon]
    byee for now!

    Cindy Davis | November 13, 2017 at 10:42 am |
    I am not sure when Lee love loved Amanda but I think he finally realized it in Wrong Way Home when Jumping Joe came back in the picture. Before, he was carefully testing the waters to pursue a relationship with her but hadn’t admitted to himself that he was in Love with her. It took his brain awhile to catch up to his heart.

    learjet1 | November 13, 2017 at 10:45 am |
    I agree that the Joe in the restaurant moment (and actually seeing Joe with Amanda) was Lee’s wake-up call. But it wasn’t until the Triumvirate that we see Lee at peace with himself about how he feels about her.

    iwsod | November 15, 2017 at 8:56 am |
    Love this Learjet!
    i think after WWH Lee is set on a path of pursuing a relationship with Amanda.. though slowly!
    I agree Lee is pretty open in Triumvirate.. peace is a great word!
    For me that ep is Amanda’s big turning point – where she really gives herself permission to let go and let Lee into her romantic heart

    katjielee | November 13, 2017 at 5:25 pm |
    In Wrong Way Home, seeing Joe with Amanda definitely gave Lee the wake-up call that Amanda might not be there waiting forever and he might want to do something about those feelings he’d been experiencing. When he told her “okay isn’t good enough for you” I melted. I would be surprised if, by this time, either Amanda or Lee could claim ignorance as to the fact that they each loved the other. Cindy, here is a question: Do you think that Joe, when he asked Amanda if she wanted to go back…was asking her to start up a relationship with him again or was he merely being rhetorical? Because if he was being serious, I’ve wondered if Amanda would have considered it for the sake of her boys or if she was too far gone on Lee? If serious, do you think Lee would have simply stepped aside or do you think he would have fought for her?

    Cindy Davis | November 13, 2017 at 6:12 pm |
    Hmmm, Great questions! IMO Joe was being somewhat rhetorical. He definitely was intrigued by the woman he thought he knew so well but obviously didn’t. He would have been open to getting to know her better if she was receptive, but wasn’t going to push. I think (again, MHO) he realizes that he needs to do major repair work with the boys. Would she have considered getting back together for the sake of the boys? No. (and I never, ever believed she would have married Dean to provide a father figure for P & J or companionship for herself). Now if Lee wasn’t in her life, or Joe returned much earlier, than she might have taken Joe back, but not just for the sake of the boys. I think Joe would have to prove he had changed and she and the boys were now his priority and she would have to get past the hurt to fall back in love with him if that makes sense. “If serious, do you think Lee would have simply stepped aside or do you think he would have fought for her?” Oh the Angst would have been unbearable for me! I believe Lee would have done the honourable thing and stepped aside if that is what he thought Amanda wanted or needed. He is at the point where Amanda’s happiness is more important than his own (I think the whole brother-sister cover in Fast Food For Thought was him trying to do the right thing and step aside so Amanda could be together with Joe and reunite their family if that is what she decided. .

    katjielee | November 14, 2017 at 2:55 pm |
    Thank you, Cindy. I love your thoughts on this!

    iwsod | November 15, 2017 at 8:53 am |
    Whoooo wrong way home is fabulous – and another milestone episode!
    I was surprised when I walked through it how significant that ep was. I’d never really connected with it until the walk with you guys!
    Before, he was carefully testing the waters to pursue a relationship with her but hadn’t admitted to himself that he was in Love with her. It took his brain awhile to catch up to his heart.
    Yes!!! Poor sod tee hee..
    I agree early season 3 – he was definitely testing the waters, in OTL he was showing signs he wanted a real relationship.. and there were big hints that he was trying to find this with an Amanda type.. but he realised it was really Amanda that he was interested in.. soooo he was going to have to start getting his head around that relationship maybe changing – which is a risk…
    so he upped the flirting [ Opera? Love to!] and she gave indications she was not anti. [Flight to Freedom and sailing off in the sunset anyone? ] that’s a good start.. lol. But IMHO Amanda was still holding back her heart and soul romantically early season 3.
    ‘Wrong way home’ brought home (see what I did there with that pun haaa) the seriousness of love and pursuing that relationship between Lee and Amanda..
    My memory of that ep is that final look of Lee’s across the gym – which screamed at me: self-sacrifical love.
    In that ep, Lee’s love for Amanda was shown to be selfless… another step in the right direction – that’s the sort of love that Amanda could commit her heart and soul to!
    It took his brain awhile to catch up to his heart.
    Amen to that.. the two are a different journey – sometimes one is ahead of the other – and they IMHO over take each other at times.. lol… the path to love is not smooth..

    iwsod | November 15, 2017 at 8:29 am |
    Okay.. I finally have a moment to come back to this.. my brain has been all fuzzy with a headcold.. what better cure than some Lee and Amanda goodness?!
    Whooooo katjielee, I love that you went straight to ship of spies!!! It is a big turning point isn’t it!
    I believe there are many kinds and levels of love (definitely nuanced) and Lee went through every one of them trying desperately to put on the brakes. At the time of SOS, I think this might have been the first time he could see her in “that way.” By “that way” I mean merely as possible dating material.
    Indeed! this is where this discussion can be super interesting and nuanced! And.. I think it’s a credit to the smk writers and performers that we connect with this – many shows don’t give this kind of story such nuance. Instead, the whack us over the heads with he is in denial! or.. uh oh she’s trying to bury her feelings by dating someone else! the development doesn’t feel as organic – it feels contrived. With smk I don’t get that vibe, which is probably one reason why I’m blogging about it 35 years later!
    I agree Lee was shocked by that SOS kiss!!
    do I think he would have bedded her in TGTN? Yes! He’s a naughty boy, and I think he was always aware of her physical beauty, but there would obviously have been no emotion at that point in time.
    Now this is interesting! I can see your point and all.. but what about Lee’s view of the American housewife? I think Lee was pushing Amanda away at the beginning, and I’m not sure he would have bedded her. I think he preferred to play the field with other women who played the field. that way it was not complicated.. I’m guessing Lee would not have bedded for fun the same woman who was inviting him to her family’s thanks giving because he was lonely.. it all emotionally hit too close to home, and he was pushing her away very early on..
    I do not think he would have taken her to bed by SOS because there were deeper things going on he was avoiding with specific intent.
    Ah! Well I’d agree with this I just put this avoiding even earlier than you katjielee. Love all your thoughts on his affection and respect for Amanda.. Which was probably an additional reason he put her in the ‘don’t touch’ category – in addition to what I saw happening very early on for Lee..
    If he didn’t love her by SOS, then definitely by Burn Out. At that point, it was probably like “If I were the serious kind, I’d want you…” kind of love, not a madly-in-love-I’ve-got-to-have-you love.
    I’m thinking the if I were the serious kind I’d want you is where he was at a bit earlier.. around SOS and A relative situation (which I put a little earlier in season 2).
    Burnout was where Lee discovered Amanda’s unconditional acceptance and support of him as a person and as an agent – a very attractive quality
    She even forgave his slap – a moment for Lee which he (I think) found his own behaviour apalling and he was heartily ashamed of himself and what he had done. And Amanda forgave and didn’t reject him.
    It’s definitely a phase where Lee sees Amanda is very special, and that this type of friendship is extremely rare and special. He can see how lucky he is to know her and have her as his friend.
    I love how you described Amanda’s choice katjielee! I think Lee was touched by her choices in relation to him just another aspect of Amanda that totally won him over in the end
    I don’t know if I’d say it was love at that point.. but then I also think in some ways they loved each other from the start… love has many dimensions, levels etc..
    I think great love is always anchored in friendship so this question of yours is very difficult to answer simply because of the nuances. What do YOU think, iwsod?
    katjielee I think you are spot on!!! it is not a simple answer to the question ‘When did Lee and Amanda fall in love?’ thank goodness for that.. it’s what makes the show so good!!!
    I hope I’ve made some kind of sense here my brain is very fuzzy. eek!

    katjielee | November 16, 2017 at 12:48 pm |
    iwsod, LOVE your take on things! The wonderful thing about your blog is how we get to roll around different scenarios on our tongue and pick out what tastes best. I think the best thing about the SMK love affair is that no matter when it started, it goes on forever. And we will never get tired of debating the issue.

    katjielee | November 16, 2017 at 3:23 pm |
    iswod, mention Lee’s view on the American housewife? I know that he sees the housewife as tedious and boring and not someone with whom he’d have any kind of relationship. Then again, at the time,he wasn’t looking for any kind of relationship except the fleeting, one-night kind. Given that he was determined to avoid working with Amanda, I don’t think her housewife status would have stopped the purely physical from happening; in fact, he might have done it for the additional benefit of “running her off.” Maybe the fact that he longed for something she could offer would be the reason to keep it physical thinking the after effect of that would be to end this so-called working relationship quickly… Our Lee was a bit self-destructive back then. But I do defer to your knowledge in this mental-motivation arena! You made perfect sense! Hope your cold is getting better. Our whole household has the same thing.
    -end quote-

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