15/18 Season Three, Episode 03 : Over the Limit- Scarecrow and Mrs King (Blog order-Episode 02)

Lee and Amanda walk out into the hallway closing the door on Leslie in Lee’s apartment.. Amanda still has her smile plastered on.. LOL! poor Amanda!
3.03 OVER THE LIMIT.avi_002278878The shock of it all is still hanging in the air.. Lee didn’t expect Amanda and Leslie to meet, and well… Amanda certainly didn’t expect Leslie Winking smile Remember that easy, friendly camaraderie as they arrived just a few moments ago?? Everything is suddenly different. Veeerrry different!
3.03 OVER THE LIMIT.avi_002279679So… what are the first words out of Lee’s mouth once Lee and Amanda are alone?
Lee: I briefed Billy. [Really Lee? Bluffing again are you Lee? It does come naturally.. What about Leslie and Amanda meeting??!!! Because right now that’s all I care about! Winking smile ]
3.03 OVER THE LIMIT.avi_002283883Amanda nods..and smirks.. though IMHO it emanates from her here that she is not happy- too mild a word? How about- she’s furious???? (what do you think?)
Lee continues with his bluffing :
We’ve got a team standing by in case O’Keefe calls.
Amanda doesn’t respond to that, instead she says: She’s very nice.
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[Meh! Amanda is generous! I’m not convinced on that one myself…but whatever!]
Lee is a little taken aback by this statement:
Ohhh ahh… I’m glad you like her.  [lol Lee Amanda didn’t say she liked her 😉 only that she was ‘nice’ 😉 ]
3.03 OVER THE LIMIT.avi_002285685[Is he? really glad?? I think he’d rather they had never met- thoughts anyone?]
Amanda quickly: N
ot your type.
3.03 OVER THE LIMIT.avi_002288088Lee: what do you mean not my type?
3.03 OVER THE LIMIT.avi_002289689Amanda: she’s normal…

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[Okay, I can see the attempt was made to portray Leslie as normal..she looked normal! but lol I found her weird! Winking smile ]
..She’s a normal person. She would never understand you…
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…She would never understand what you do.

3.03 OVER THE LIMIT.avi_002293860[and since when has Lee gone for ‘normal’!! Right Amanda? 🙂 ]
Amanda takes a huge breath here.. yes.. breath Amanda!
Interesting-
Amanda is normal.
Amanda says Lee’s type is not ‘normal’
– therefore Amanda is not Lee’s type!!
Hmm.. this is all getting rather confusing for Amanda no?!
3.03 OVER THE LIMIT.avi_002294894Lee’s reply is a little snappy  :
Amanda…
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…She has a top security clearance from the UN as a diplomatic translator…

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(Lee starts checking off on his fingers here her credentials..Okay, I am now officially starting to get mad at Lee for the first time this episode!)
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…She’s been to Moscow for the start talks.
To me, Lee gives off the vibe here of not being happy with Amanda questioning him- because he knows what he is doing! Indignant maybe? He’s thought this all through! What does she know! lol.. Lee thinks he has it all sorted out, but I think he is kidding himself.
[Amanda looks at Lee incredulous at hearing this]
…she can guess what I do.
3.03 OVER THE LIMIT.avi_002302102Ohhhh boy.. I think Amanda freaks out a little as what Lee says here is plausible and requires her to re-adjust all the things she knew about Lee and Relationships!!! eek!

I cannot wait to hear what you all make of this!

Can Leslie really guess? ‘guess’ implies he hasn’t actually told her! So this real relationship he is trying out with Leslie so far still has it’s limits.. I tend to think anyone who knew what Lee did would not have ‘surprised’ him at his apartment, and if she knows- why did he hide his gun from her when he arrived? Meh.. I’m not convinced..
I think Lee is trying to convince himself though. I see this as Lee talking up this relationship with Leslie because he wants it to work.
Lee continues:
… that’s why it works out so….. perfect!
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Whoa!!!! Now that is a line that tells us a lot about where Lee is at now!
This is what Lee now sees as ‘perfect’?? A woman who can actually guess what he does and has a security clearance?
I think this is a huge shift in Lee and his attitudes towards relationships that – when Amanda has calmed down- will tell her a lot!
Lee now no longer defines Randi types who have not a clue what he does for a living as ‘perfect’ – Lee now seems to value being able to share his life with someone-without having to keep secrets..  he sees the advantage in less compartmentalisation…but.. at the same time, IMHO he hasn’t stopped this yet (I’m not buying that he has been completely open with Leslie about what he does!). And let’s not forget- he’s now thinking ‘normal’ is perfect!
So while I cringe at Lee saying this about Leslie.. I do also see that this is progress..
That question he began to ponder in SOS: Could I want to be a husband??? Maybe I do??!!  Could I really share my life with someone?? Well… it seems he has progressed in answering this, and has moved on to trying out this type of relationship with someone – Someone who is similar to Amanda in that she wants a real relationship.. but it is not exactly the same as with Amanda.. as was discussed earlier in light of the dress conversation, Lee’s feelings for Amanda are too scary for him to deal with at this point.
I am sure you will all have a lot to say about this!
This is a long distance relationship soo that seems to me to be not too demanding..
Leslie doesn’t have a ready made family and Lee thinks he can test this relationship stuff out, long distance,  without having to risk his relationship with Amanda – which he knows would be at risk if he tried this with her.  It’s not a bad plan.. lol! 😉 He values Amanda so much- he doesn’t want to risk loosing it. He’s not ready to risk that.. but he’s ready to try with someone else.. Ohhh Lee!!!! I guess he’s got some growing to do!! I
hate to see Amanda’s hurt here.. but.. I can see Lee needed to go through all this to learn a lesson or two.

Maybe Amanda needed to go through this too – to begin to acknowledge she has not completely dealt with romantic feelings for Lee like she thought she had.. [and like the casablanca dream in DOA hinted at- it was buried deep in her unconscious!!]
Can’t wait to hear your thoughts on what is happening with Amanda here – jealous? yes! but.. I think that is only a part of what is feeding this anger of hers here..I’ve never seen Amanda as tending towards jealousy very much.. a little.. but I think jealousy is much more Lee’s tendency.
I’d better keep going with this scene! Sorry for my rambles!
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So… Lee has just explained what’s now ‘perfect’ – shocking isn’t it Amanda!!!!
Amanda doesn’t really respond. She just nods and says:
Ohhh..
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and takes a breath. What to say  huh?!
Lee seems to be oblivious to Amanda’s anger here.. confused and trying to move things back to business – you trying to keep Amanda your partner separate from your private life again now Lee?
3.03 OVER THE LIMIT.avi_002311711Lee continues: Anyway, where was I?..
3.03 OVER THE LIMIT.avi_002312112…everything is all set up in case O’Keefe calls…
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…You’re going straight home right?!!!
[Amanda is over the limit!!!!!]
3.03 OVER THE LIMIT.avi_002317317Oh boy!!! this really is the last straw for Amanda.. first she is replaced by Leslie.. and now she is suddenly no longer involved in the case?? she was involved when they arrived, and now Lee is staying with Leslie she isn’t?
Amanda:
Ohharrrgh!!..
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(Amanda heads for the elevator mocking Lee) ..ha haaa haaa grrrrr go straight home Amanda! Story of my life. School, dinners, grocery store, then straight home Amanda!..
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Lee is utterly baffled at her angry reaction here
Lee: what the-
Amanda:
…Never been to the UN,…
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…never been on the road to Moscow…
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…The only Hague I know is that guy who use to be secretary of state! Ha!
3.03 OVER THE LIMIT.avi_002331464Lee: Amanda, you have been a big help, believe me I appreciate it
.
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[Meh.. the words don’t match the actions Lee… Give her a pat on the head there Lee.. that will make her point so nicely! you condescending dill! I think Lee said something similar to James last week (In Welcome to America Mr Brand) when he was trying to placate him. ]
On hearing this, Amanda lowers her head and lets out a big breath, you can even see her slump physically.
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She can see she is not being understood by Lee here. And he isn’t going to get it. I think this is the moment where she decides to go work on the case without him anyway. she starts smiling and nodding like crazy, too bad pal!
…Now all we have to do is wait for O’Keefe to take the bait…
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[Get it???!!! Take the bait??!!! whahahahaa]
…If he calls for a rendezvous, hey, I can get Francine to you know, double as you.
3.03 OVER THE LIMIT.avi_002340974It’s official! Amanda is well over her limit!!!!
She smiles and nods and throws up her hand saying light-heartedly:
riiiigghhht!!! 3.03 OVER THE LIMIT.avi_002342475
…yeah!!!!

3.03 OVER THE LIMIT.avi_002343743oh boy..did Lee just say what I think he just said??!!! Of all the times to mention Francine replacing Amanda!!!! Big mistake Lee!! Amanda is fed up with women replacing her!!!! She wants to be free to live her life- whether you want a relationship with Amanda or not! Lee knows previously Amanda has had issues with Francine replacing her- why say it now like it is doing Amanda a favour that she isn’t involved? Honestly, Lee is completely clueless here!!!!! Criminally so!
The elevator door opens.
Amanda:
.. we could at least watch him…
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…but ohh  nooo no no…
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… you have better things to do.
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Ouch!!! now that is some nark there with that last line. She’s right though, he’d be on the case if Leslie hadn’t ‘surprised’ him. Bad Lee.. I guess Lee can go do what he likes, but Amanda doesn’t have to like it. She’s as angry here as I’ve ever seen her.
Amanda’s quip about Lee having better things to do makes Lee mad!
Lee:  Amanda King. I am not going to fight with you about this.
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(Amanda smiles at Lee here.. nothing he could say to her now would stop her from doing what she wants)
.. Now watching O’Keefe is pointless…
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…You go home!..
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…Go Home!

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(saying that? Is going to make her even more determined!)
Ohhh I so can’t wait to hear everyone’s take on this!!! I see this as a huge contrast to the previous scene in that same hallway
– coming out of that same elevator Lee points at Amanda to say you were good! here: harmony!
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and here on the way out?? Lee points at Amanda to tell her to go home like she’s a child! here: disharmony!!
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Whoa!!! suddenly with Leslie on the scene Lee is shutting Amanda out of this case, telling her to go home, and IMHO Lee is slacking off on the case! Watching O’Keefe is pointless? Rubbish!!
Amanda: Ohh?? Mmmmmm..
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(Amanda’s big smile as the elevator doors close 3.03 OVER THE LIMIT.avi_002359492is priceless!!)

…Not this time Buster!

Whoa!!!!! is that their biggest fight yet?? What do you think??? They both got very worked up. I tend to think this isn’t just about work – it’s about their feelings for each other, but the work thing is definitely a part of it all. I am sure you guys will be able to put it into words better than I!

Amanda is so angry – angry about Lee and Leslie.. Why is Amanda so angry?

I’ll think on that for a while.. but the idea of earlier comments that Amanda felt a ‘claim’ on Lee because of their history rings true..(not necessarily a romantic claim)  Who said that?? and what post?? remind me?? so sorry! I don’t have time to hunt it down!
BJo listed earlier a number of reasons why Amanda could be feeling angry- Amanda jealous of Leslie? yes, a little.. but I really think that is only a part of it. She really wasn’t thinking Lee was a possibility..so jealousy was to me not the main emotion going on.. this is all such a shock!

I also think that Lee denied to Amanda that he had a new girlfriend (when he exclaimed: who said I have a new girlfriend?!! like Amanda was nuts to suggest it) and here she finds out – she was right he did – and by denying it, Lee had lied to her. I mean he could have said- no comment..but IMHO he lied to Amanda.. I can see that making Amanda very angry-  to find out in this way?? with Leslie being all nice and super friendly and way too familiar?! and acting like she is in a long term committed relationship with Lee? meh!
Amanda is angry with Lee and Leslie –  I think Amanda displaces some of her anger with Lee onto her anger about the job – this is why she is so extreme in her anger here.
I think her anger is leading her to behave recklessly.. I am not sure she would have gone off if Lee hadn’t made her so mad.

Lee is angry with Amanda too – he doesn’t really get where her anger is coming from, he certainly doesn’t want to listen to Amanda tell him that Leslie is not his type and he’s doing this relationship thing all wrong lol.. he seems to me to be avoiding thinking about Leslie and Amanda.. This is not working out the way Lee hoped.. he thought he could have the best of both worlds – keep wonderful Amanda close as a friend and partner.. and pursue a normal (long distance) relationship with Leslie – but… Amanda is so angry she is making trouble for him! [in more ways than one- but I’ll come back to this next post]

Amanda it seems is being replaced.. what with the dress, the soviet embassy.. and Lee choosing to be with Leslie than watch O’Keefe.. and it seems very stark when compared to Lee and Amanda’s arrival in the hallway- so together!! and now?? they’ve never been further apart!! Sad smile

You know, not watching O’Keefe reminds me of Mr Brand last week- no one but Amanda and James, against orders, were watching Clayton-Dobbs as he carried out his plans – and had James and Amanda not followed him the agency would have had nothing. Interesting when this episode is now immediately after Mr Brand- how this similar situation has arisen again.

[The script IMHO has a different tone here.. much more Amanda on the front foot with Leslie, and Leslie not being so weirdly assertive with Amanda..(I think the weird assertiveness was a blunder, and the writers did intend to write her as a nice normal lady- but IMHO they got it really wrong. A bit like how I think Byron Jordan was suppose to be a good guy, but to me he came off as a sexual harrassing boss! )]
I’ll look forward to hearing you guys expand more on what’s happening with Lee and Amanda here – I’m sure I haven’t put it very clearly.. but oh well.. this is the best I can do  with the time I have..
I was really struck by the level of Amanda’s anger here  – and Lee’s cluelessness..
I’ll finish up here for now.. we pick up with Lee and Leslie’s dinner in the next post.. you guessed it- this post is huge and I need to finish up for now..  – as always- please try not to jump ahead to the next scene- lots to discuss here!!  Can’t wait to hear your take on this scene!!! byeee for now everyone!!

50 responses to “15/18 Season Three, Episode 03 : Over the Limit- Scarecrow and Mrs King (Blog order-Episode 02)

  1. Pingback: 10/21 Season Three, Episode 22: All the World’s a Stage–Scarecrow and Mrs King | "Just walk with me.."

  2. I’ve just watched this again (husband bought me Seasons 1-3 SMK from Amazon to watch on demand) and Lee’s behaviour is appalling! OK, he tries to get a copy of Amanda’s dress – going out with Leslie – a woman not unlike Amanda in colouring, age, etc, trying to get a copy of Amanda who can guess what he does and he doesn’t have to pretend. But he seems genuinely confused when Amanda turns on him with the ‘Go home speech because that’s all I do.’ This really is Lee at his most dense. I think she should have slapped him, he really, really screws up here. And I’m afraid having dealt with a ‘ Leslie’s’ in my time I find her so false.

    Hope this makes sense, just needed to vent a little.

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    • Sadly, I’ve known guys as dense as Lee is here. Superspy – my butt! I find it fascinating how polarizing Leslie is (in addition to the fact she was now a rival for Lee’s affections) and I never clued in how she was supposed to be like Amanda, I found her too bland and ‘librarian-like’. Maybe I am a bit dense, too – LOL! In my defense, even first watch through, I knew that Lee didn’t want the dress, he wanted who was in it.

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  3. Pingback: 5/ Season Three, Episode 02: We’re Off to See the Wizard- Scarecrow and Mrs King (Morley’s order: Episode 04) | "Just walk with me.."

  4. Pingback: 4/ Season Three, Episode 02: We’re Off to See the Wizard- Scarecrow and Mrs King (Morley’s order: Episode 04) | "Just walk with me.."

  5. Ahhh, yes, Amanda does seem to be quite peeved here! Wow! It’s a side of her we’ve not really ever seen isn’t it?

    I think Lee is in denial that Amanda and Leslie have met. He comes out of his apartment and wants to just discuss work. Not Leslie, just work. Amanda is not gonna let that happen though! Not only is she mad, but she appears to be quite confused. And jealous and irritated and just plain incredulous that inside Lee’s apartment is a “normal” woman that Lee is going to have a romantic dinner with. What happened to work? To O’Keefe and the plan?

    Yes, Lee is irritated at Amanda’s comments about Leslie and I think I would feel the same if I were him. Amanda is not his mother. She is not his girlfriend. She has no business telling Lee who he can and cannot date. This is not how he wanted this to go down!

    Amanda does look like she is freaking out a little bit. She seems to be realizing a few things about Lee and that he may be has turned a corner in the woman department. He’s thought this one through and he’s not in it just for the you know what. He’s actually thought about this with his head and not just another part of his anatomy.

    I agree, iwsod, I think Lee has decided on paper that Leslie is the right “type” for him. She isn’t Randi and she isn’t Amanda. She’s smart, sophisticated, travels, and works in similar circles as Lee. It’s perfect! LOL.

    I also do think Leslie is a needed step for both Lee and Amanda. I think someone mentioned that in the last post too?
    Yep, Lee IS officially clueless with the mention of Francine replacing Amanda. Oh Lee. You can really be quite dense. After all she’s done on the job recently and you still want to replace her with Francine because you’re sending Amanda HOME of all places??? Grrr. I bet if Amanda was at the shooting range right now and Lee was a target on the screen for her fake gun, she’d nail him right in the forehead.

    Ohhh, the finger!!! I hate the finger point! My husband did that to me once and I don’t think he’s ever done it again. That is just so wrong on so many levels! I know he is her boss, but I’m sorry, you just don’t do that to another responsible adult.

    To me, their biggest fight yet was in BAI. They almost “broke up” then. Here they are not anywhere near that point. This is just pure emotion. In BAI it was emotion but also a possible cleaving.

    The reasons I listed for Amanda being angry earlier, I think had all perhaps evaporated by the time they were just about to head into Lee’s apartment. I’m not sure that I think those reasons are part of her anger here. At least not the main part. I think Amanda is mad at Lee and also mad at herself here in this scene. She is mad at Lee for dating a “normal” woman. She is made at Lee for not sharing anything about her with him. Why wouldn’t he do that? They are friends, aren’t they? I think she’s also mad because she now knows he was lying to her about not having a girlfriend – or at least that is how she views Leslie, I’m sure. On the other side, I think she is mad at herself. I think she is realizing that perhaps she has missed some things about Lee. I think she may also be mad at herself for feeling some jealousy toward Leslie. I think that may surprise her. She may also be mad at the fact that all those crush feelings she had for Lee have now suddenly shot to the surface with seeing normal Leslie with Lee. I think it is a little irrational on her part to think that, I mean Lee is still Lee, he’s not shown any interest in her kids or the suburbs or anything. He still needs time for that part to grow inside him.

    Oops, I see we agree on the lying thing. Well, that’s it for me for this one!

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  6. Everyone has such good things to say here. Amanda has been hit by so much in the past couple of days, she’s already reeling. Lee has been trying hard to ignore the truth that is keeping him up at night. This whole incident with Leslie has brought both of them to the breaking point.

    Amanda responds by lashing out (in both anger and jealousy, though I don’t think she recognizes it), so she decides that once and for all, she’s going to do whatever is necessary to finish the job. She’s finished a few jobs quite well lately, so she deserves to finish one she’s already done well on. She, not Francine, thank you.

    Lee reverts back to his usual mode: work with no complications – Amanda is a complication, though he’s fooling himself by thinking it’s just work. His relationship is easily dealt with – he’ll smooth it over in his usual style. Hey, he’s Scarecrow, after all. And, perhaps he does slip back into Scarecrow for just a bit to deal with this. In some way, I think he preserves the real Lee for Amanda (and occasionally Billy or Francine) and this is another reason why he’s having trouble in this relationship – because he can’t “just be Lee” because Leslie doesn’t know the real Lee. Thus, he lashes out in a sense, too. Amanda is messing everything up again, just by being Amanda because his Lee/Scarecrow cover won’t work in front of Amanda, and he’s got to get her out quick before she exposes him.

    Then, again, maybe I’m just over-thinking this. Perhaps I need some chocolate …

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    • WOW!!!!
      Hi Everyone!!

      Just wanted to say that every time I read a comment I’m seeing more and more about Lee and Amanda! Adding layers and layers of enjoyment and understanding!

      Sounds like we are all seeing Lee and Amanda in quite a similar way here in this very significant time in their story – usually we have more diverse views.. but we seem to see just a few smaller things differently (like how we view Leslie) – I wonder if this means that the episode order is working out pretty well so far..

      I keep reading the comments thinking – I agree! yes!! that’s it!!!! 🙂

      If anyone reading has a different view though – do feel free to go for it and share your views!!!

      You guys rock!!

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  7. Lots of emotions coming to the forefront for Amanda here. I think she is certainly jealous, but mostly over the relationship that she has with Lee now, not a fuzzy future romance. She can’t help but know that she has been able to forge a relationship with Lee that is much more concrete, much more lasting, than he has with any of his girlfriends. Now she is worried that someone else has come along who is able to take her place. First, his reluctance to talk about it makes her feel like he’s sneaking. Next, she finds out that Leslie actually is nice, and a “normal” person. (I don’t think Amanda believes Leslie is being snippy or conniving in this scene; her complaints and anger are mostly directed at Lee. It would have been distinctly easier for Amanda if she could point to something Leslie had said or done, and said, “This is what’s wrong with her”.) Normal is threatening, because all along it is Amanda who has been “normal”, and yet able to bridge the gap between the normal world and the one Lee lives in. It’s funny that in ROTP she tries to make Lee more normal, and now she objects to Leslie as being too normal. Next, Amanda finds out that Leslie can guess about what Lee does, and that she fits into his world — Amanda is afraid Leslie fits better than she herself. So far, Amanda has been someone Lee can talk to about his work, be open with, when he can’t with other women. There is a very real fear that Leslie will displace Amanda in that area, that he will begin to share things he’s previously only shared with Amanda.

    Amanda is also stung personally by Lee’s obvious hurry to get rid of her and professionally by his dismissiveness of her role in the case they were so excited about just a moment ago. Now her worst fears seem to be confirmed, because he is shutting her out of his life. He has a new woman who is important in the same world he lives in — she’s not a trainee, she doesn’t wear a guest pass. Lee is impressed by her, and meets her as an equal in a way that Amanda’s been working long and hard for, and only just beginning to accomplish. Amanda feels put down that she isn’t exciting or impressive enough — she doesn’t travel all over the world or work with the UN, or have security clearance. She’s “just” a housewife, “just” a part-time partner. Then, Lee has the nerve to basically kick her off her own case! Insult to injury. Especially since it seems likely that they she was going to his apartment with him either to wait for further developments or to get ready to head out on the next stage of the investigation.

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    • Wow, happycamper! How do you do that? Awesome analysis! I think this was my favorite line:

      > Amanda is afraid Leslie fits better than she herself.

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    • I think you nailed it, Happycampero.
      More than being jealous I think there is a small measure of hurt at possibly being replaced . Amanda has been the only “normal” person in Lee’s life and now here comes Leslie and she isn’t at all like his usual bimbo girlfriends. (But IMHO “she ain’t normal either”, she’s weird .) Yes, Amanda is ticked off, she was just dismissed like yesterday’s coffee grounds, all because he wanted to get back to his romantic dinner and wanted her out of the way….Lee is very practiced at at that rude behavior.

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    • Absolutely! I feel really bad for Amanda in this episode. She’s spent years now trying to bridge the gap between her world and Lee’s, and working to help him open up a bit, and now she’s being pushed out. It’s obvious she’s been harbouring an attraction to him, but she’s long since accepted he isn’t looking for a serious relationship. Now, though, it seems that he is looking – is already IN one – and not only does he push her out of his apartment, he tries to shove her off the case too! Add to that the fact that her MOTHER seems to be getting more action than Amanda, she must be feeling awfully left out.

      It’s one thing to acknowledge that you sometimes wish you could be with someone who is obviously not looking for the kind of relationship you want. It’s another entirely to have him change his mind and pass you over for someone who’s ‘just like you only better.’

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  8. Melissa Robertson

    Yeah, Amanda is hopping mad. IMHO some of her anger is jealousy over Lee’s new ‘friend’, but a lot of it comes from all the emotional events happening in her life. So far she has had thrown at her: her mother going away with her dad’s fishing buddy to where they went as a family (that right there is a lot to deal with), things are changing at work (Billy’s giving her training and she didn’t do that great, so I think she is a little down about that), Lee’s got a friend that he wants to buy a dress for (one that is like hers). When you have that much happening in your life in a short amount of time there is a lot of pent up emotions that are going to escape at some point and that point was coming face to face with some one that is simular to herself. She probably wants to slap Lee upside the head and say, “Hey pal, if you want ‘normal’, someone who understands you and your job, and who looks good in my dress. I’m right here!”

    I agree that she feels like Lee lied to her about Leslie…I think she knew when Lee had a new girl because she calls one by name in Three Faces of Emily. But she never felt threaten by his little girls, but Leslie now she sees this isn’t just another one of those girls.

    Sorry, I don’t feel like I’m saying this well, but I think all this pent up emotion of Amanda’s was ready to come to a head and meeting Leslie made it boil over and Lee got it. But, I can’t say that I feel sorry for Lee… even though I know he is working through a lot of feelings too I say, “suffer, Lee, suffer.”

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    • Rofl…
      “Hey pal, if you want ‘normal’, someone who understands you and your job, and who looks good in my dress. I’m right here!”

      I love this!

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  9. My mind was just wandering, and… my apologies if anyone’s already covered this–someone’s bound to have–but I keep getting diverted down rabbit holes when reading… anyway:
    I can’t help but compare Lee’s minimising of Amanda to the climactic part of BAI–but this is so much worse because (a) he’d grown and now, with just a sniff of a woman around, he reverts back into old ways/butt**** Lee, and (b) Amanda has trusted him and supported him throughout–including BO. But, he’s minimising/ignoring everything she’s done on this case, and then–the icing on the cake–telling Amanda that Francine can sub in for her? OUCH!
    Uh, I think I just slipped down another rabbit hole…

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    • Hey KC! and hi everyone!!! Life’s keeping me busy at the moment.. but you are all making a whole lot of sense! Lovin the discussion!! hope you are too!!

      I agree KC, Lee does seem to suddenly take a step back here.. and only a few posts ago, some of us had pointed out how far Lee had come, and the progress he had made – seems he has regressed because of his own internal conflicts going on here..

      will be interesting to hear what you all make of this situation as we head into the final act of this episode!

      Like

    • I like this comparison KC, and I agree that it is much worse because it is happening now after so much progress. But it seems to underline the main difficulty that Lee has which I have always felt is fear. I think he is reverting back to some self preservation techniques that he has used since he was a young child to protect his sensitive heart, mainly compartmentalization. I think he also has come to a cross roads. He may not recognize it here in the hall, but I do think he has made enough progress that he isn’t going to be able to get away with it for long at all. He will recognize what he has done.
      The fear that he has is so primal that he doesn’t even recognize it. I really think he is afraid to love, because love gets taken from him every time he allows it to grow. And I do think that his relationship with Amanda has been a loving one since the very beginning. In SAAB he began to love her. I am not going to go as far as saying it was a romantic love, but it was a genuine love, and the fact that even that is scary for Lee says a lot. So his response was to keep her at bay even professionally. And that came to a head in BAI. Since then he has allowed her to become closer to him, he has acknowledged her as an integral part of his work life and they have become friends. But he is scared of that growing closeness and his way of protecting her from becoming even more essential in his life he has created a boundary by having another woman fill the romantic slot. But here this has been complicated and maybe even that thin barrier has been compromised by having the two meet.
      So, here in the hall, he is throwing up every boundary he can think of, even the old ones. Go home, Amanda (sounds like Mongoose?) We will take it from here (that sounds so pre BAI). But Amanda, has grown too. “Not this time Buster.” Oh, she just rejected all those boundaries. She is also beginning to use those great one liners that challenge Lee’s elaborate boundaries, huh?
      What will Lee do? Will he continue to live hemmed in by those boundaries that keep his heart “safe” and deprived. Or is he going to become brave and push through them? I think he has tasted enough of the realness of the love that his heart has so longed for, I don’t think he can stay in that impoverished, cold place he had kept himself in the past.

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      • Morley–yes, I agree. 🙂 And I normally give Lee’s character a lot of leeway (LOL)/a pretty wide hall-pass for bad behaviour because of where I think it stems from, but here he manages to go all-out. He (mostly unwittingly [?], but still) pushes all the buttons and he’s not just a butt personally he’s also not being particularly professional (blowing off the case). So… I’m still calling for a kick-in-the-wherever for him in this case. 😀 Tee hee hee.

        Then again, I do so love the way you’ve stated it all, that I’ll give him a pass–just for you. (“I think he has tasted enough of the realness of the love that his heart has so longed for, I don’t think he can stay in that impoverished, cold place he had kept himself in the past.”)

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      • Really like this, Morley! Especially this:

        >Oh, she just rejected all those boundaries.
        Not only has Lee grown, but Amanda has been growing as well. She is not just going to let him treat her like he’s treating her here with respect to work. If she wasn’t so angry I don’t think she’d be reckless, I think she’d go to the Agency and do something there. She certainly wouldn’t go home. I think it’s her anger that causes her to be reckless and go watch O’Keefe. I think someone else already said that – whoever it was, I agree!

        Like

  10. There is a song called She Ain’t You by New Hollow. When I hear that song, I think of this episode. So fitting. I think the worst part is when Lee is thanking her for helping him with the case. Excuse me, but if she wasn’t so enthused, there wouldn’t even be a case to begin with. She wanted to help Elizabeth and you decided to help her. I think the other thing here is that Amanda has really been standing up for herself recently (with Francine, with Billy, now with Lee). This is the turning point where Amanda really decides she wants to be more in the agency. She is now going to fight to get to do more. I also agree that her reaction here is a part jealousy, but in part a build up of everything that has happened the last 2 days. Amanda is very patient, but not a saint.

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  11. I find it interesting that Amanda is criticising Lee’s choice of girlfriend. She hasn’t really been quite so vocal about it before has she?
    I do feel sorry for her…..she’s discovered Lee has been lying by omission about his new girlfriend and relationship and possibly doesn’t even really understand why it annoys her so much. And then Lee in his usual stick-his-head-in-the-sand-and-pretend-there-really-isn’t-an-issue manner has just well and truly stoked the fire by brushing off her comments and then suggesting Francine can replace her. After all the work she’s done on this case and as usual she isn’t being allowed to follow it through to the end. Lee, Lee you’ve just lit the fuse, better stand back and watch the fireworks blow!
    I shan’t say any more because actually kiwismh put it best 😀

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    • So true. Lee just pulled both rugs out from under her. Their friendship, not just because of Leslie, but because he was not telling her the truth about her) and all that she has gained professionally. Too much. But I do love Amanda’s reaction. The woman has chutzpah.

      Like

    • Thanks Bitsybeans – and I was thinking it wasn’t my best work as I struggled to find the right words at the end of another long day. 🙂
      Like your comments about Amanda criticising the girlfriend – a first, and a sure sign of at least some jealousy in the mix of emotions!
      And about Lee’s lie of omission. He wouldn’t out and out lie to her now, but sometimes silence or avoidance is just as bad.

      Like

    • I don’t think she’s criticized his girlfriend choices beyond comments like ‘Randy-baby’ and that time he confesses that his girlfriend took off with a pilot or something and she said her name in a kind of make-fun-of tone. But I think she outright criticized here out of jealousy. All this time she’s been either consciously or unconsciously convincing herself that even though there is something there he isn’t ready to deal with it because he’s not ready for commitments or real relationships. Leslie is more of a ‘real relationship’ type girl. Whether Lee intended to have a long term relationship with her or not, she’s definitely more of the relationship type. Add to that Lee throwing it in Amanda’s face that Leslie is exactly what he wants and illuminating her attributes that Amanda doesn’t have… and yep she’s ticked.

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  12. So, for the sake of decorum and politeness Amanda kept it together while she was in the apartment but now that she and Lee are outside the door her smile and her patience are worn thin. Still, as Lee starts to ramble on about contacting Billy, she looks like she is still trying to keep a lid on her emotions – maybe crossing her arms to keep all the hurt and jealousy from boiling over into anger.
    Lee does the typical male thing when they’ve been found out – he starts talking about something else in a there’s nothing unusual just happened here kind’ve way. Oooh, I hate it when they do that! 😦 In fact, in this scene he does it twice, “Now, where was I…” grrrrrrr 😦
    Love how Amanda puts him right back on topic and on the spot – “She’s very nice”. She’s not going to let him gloss over this. After the “who says I have a new girlfriend”, the “the dress”, and the whole scene she has just endured with Leslie, she feels she deserves some clarity (to put it mildly).
    I really feel for Amanda here and can sympathise with the gut wrenching feeling she must be experiencing, even though she still doesn’t fully understand why she feels so wounded. But it’s important to her right now to understand what is happening with Lee (rational) and stop it (oops, not rational – as if pointing out to Lee that Leslie is a “normal person” will somehow make him realise Leslie isn’t right for him. We women do these crazy things when we’re confused and hurt by someone we care for). 😦
    I definitely see hurt and jealousy coming from Amanda here – it’s like Lee has (unintentionally) twisted the knife by pointing out all the ways Leslie is “normal” but not “normal” like Amanda – the UN, the START Talks, the Hague. Amanda immediately takes these comments as a comparison to herself and throws them back at Lee in that light – how is he not getting this? And then just one more twist of the knife – I’ll get Francine to double for you.
    The way Lee chides Amanda as she gets into the lift always makes me angry because I feel like he is transferring the annoyance he feels towards Leslie onto Amanda. Just before he and Amanda left the apartment it was obvious that Lee was irritated by Leslie’s constant chatter and the things she was saying. Now Amanda has put him on the spot and challenged him, ramping up his feelings of guilt and embarrassment, causing him to take out some of his aggravation on her.
    I think Lee is just not thinking clearly here – the two separate parts of his world he didn’t want to meet have collided and he’s desperate to get this very personal and emotionally stressful situation over and done with. He’s feeling guilty, embarrassed and regretful but in the confusion of events he still can’t face his true feelings. Again, some personal reflection time is in order – for both Lee and Amanda.
    Definitely this is a “safe” normal relationship for Lee – no long-term commitment, no need to explain his job, no need to see her every day even (Leslie lives in NY and only travels to DC for work, and she spends time away overseas), no kids, no mother-in-law, no pre-existing friendship (that we know of). It’s as if Lee wants to keep a certain level of remoteness in this relationship. Leslie, I’m sure, has other ideas 🙂
    He sounds to me like he is trying to convince himself that this type of relationship is “perfect” for him now. His heart just isn’t in it (because it’s with Amanda) but at this point he’s still determinedly avoiding the obvious and determined to plough on with this charade with Leslie.
    Again we see Amanda channelling her negative energy into work – she can’t deal with the hurt, anger, frustration and jealousy without facing her true feelings, so she retreats to the things she can put some positive energy into, her work and her family (in this case, work). In this, she is showing more professionalism, and more emotional fortitude and maturity than Lee at this moment.
    “Not this time buster!” You go girl!

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    • I am liking what you wrote, kiwismh.

      Like

    • Definitely like this!! Very well explained. I like the comment about Lee pointing out that Leslie is normal in all the ways Amanda isn’t normal.

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      • Yes, I tend to think that Amanda, in reflecting on this conversation, would come to the conclusion (wrongly) that she is not sophisticated enough for Lee, that he would have more in common with someone who is, like him, more travelled and worldly. She would still be hurting but this is how she would settle in it in her mind, and she would probably quietly chide herself for her jealousy and carry on as positively as she could.
        She values his friendship too much to turn away from him because he is in a relationship but I think as time went on their friendship would necessarily become less close if Lee were to carry on a long-term relationship.

        Like

        • Double Like for all that you’ve written!

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        • She would be remembering the “how you do a kitchen” conversation in TGTN. Leslie may be normal because she wants a normal relationship, but that is where the comparison would stop. And that is probably the most threatening thing that Amanda could think of, even though she won’t let herself, still, think of Lee as potential for her. She would chide herself all the way to Transoceanic.

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  13. When I watch this conversation I just want to draw little boxes and put each characters lines in the corresponding box. Talk about compartmentalism.
    I am pretty sure that Lee would rather not have had those two meet, it messes up those nice neat boxes.
    I think Lee was surprised that Amanda was so aware of what his type is, it almost sounds like she has given some thought to this. Is Leslie “normal”? She just isn’t a bimbo. She travels (like Phyllis in Dead Ringer), she works in international political circles. She is probably very comfortable in a room of elite types. That isn’t Amanda’s definition of normal. Or is she “normal” because she appears to be the kind of woman that isn’t in a relationship for a one night sand, she wants romantic dinners at home and a secure personal relationship in which she could know Lee well and is her type of normal the kind that knowing what Lee does would mess that up? Does knowing what Lee does mess that up for Amanda? Does it make him not a candidate for a normal relationship? Is the fact that Lee would attempt a relationship with Leslie mess up Amanda’s paradigm, does it mess with what she was telling herself as far as Lee was concerned and some of her attraction to him. Was she telling herself that oil and water don’t mix. And instantly she was comparing herself to Leslie.
    When Le lists all of Leslie’s qualities it really does sound like he is going through a check list that he is very familiar with. I imagine he told himself this very thing every night as he had trouble falling asleep. Actually it sounds like both Lee and Amanda are rehearsing their “talking points”, but actually I do think they hearing each other, what they have both says appears to be getting under the other’s skin.
    I do think that Lee is attempting to break down some of the compartmentalism in his life, but not completely because the vestiges of it are still there and they are in the areas that pertain to Amanda and what she represents (family, love, home, a complete marriage between his work and his heart) and he isn’t ready for it.
    Iwsod, I totally agree with your ramble.
    I do love it when Amanda loses it, I do like it that she is in a position that she is pushed to lose it, but since she is, I am glad that she does. Actually, I think it makes Lee take notice. I love his reaction, she is just not going to stay in that nice neat “Amanda is my work partner box.” Nope, it is like Amanda is saying, “fine! Then I am taking my ball and going home.” And Lee really likes playing ball with Amanda. I wish we could have seen his face the moment he walks back into his apartment and to Leslie.
    As for Amanda, there has just been to much in her life jumping out of the nice neat boxes she put them in. Her mother really threw her for a loop and now Lee is doing it to. I am sure that all of Lee’s strange behavior the day before seems even stranger now. Yup all of Amanda’s anger is making trouble for Lee and his “perfect” plan.

    Like

  14. Lee is definitely off his gourd here. Everything he says in this scene is practically guaranteed to get Amanda to do exactly the opposite of what he wants her to do. My only explanation for his behavior here is that he’s been seriously rattled about Amanda and Leslie meeting. His worlds just collided, and now, they each realize that Lee has been holding back on them or misleading them about things.

    Lee has never really meant it as an insult when he’s suggested replacing Amanda with Francine on an assignment, although it often sounds that way. In the beginning, it was meant to keep Amanda safe because she was inexperienced and couldn’t defend herself as well as Francine could. However, for Lee to revert to this now, after Amanda has had more experience and training is rather insulting. After everything else that Amanda’s been going through, I don’t blame her for being upset and blowing up a little.

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  15. I also noticed that physically Leslie and Amanda are almost identical-same height, complexion and size. If he wants a woman who has security clearance, can guess what he does, who he can talk to and physically looks like that -he is getting awfully close to Amanda herself….

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    • LOL! So very true. I put this down to Lee not recognizing he is in a losing battle with himself. Yep, my men-are-dense-as-rocks-theory when they are faced with potential threats to their treasured delusions. Love Amanda’s expressions and mannerisms!

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  16. Just quickly… before I run away to elliptical…
    “Amanda doesn’t have to like it. She’s as angry here as I’ve ever seen her.”
    Actually, I think that here she’s angry but there’s also a huge heaping dose of frustration mixed with the anger (and a dash of jealousy for seasoning?). In contrast, she was livid pretty much to the point of speechlessness towards Magda in Dead Ringer (when Magda said “In my country, first place is winning, everything else is losing.”). I think that was the angriest we’ve seen her, and that was mother bear in defense of her cubs… so the anger was coming from a different place–but was a more pure anger.
    shrug

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    • elliptical?? Sounds painful whatever it is 😉
      Yes I agree about your mix – Amanda is angry, frustrated and there is a good dose of jealousy there too. As I have commented previously, to me she has in recent months very likely begun to think sub-consciously (her inner instinctive female I am talking about here) of Lee as a possible life partner. His behaviour and maturity since Burn Out have moved him much closer to normal territory, and that mixed with an already very close friendship must be resonating with her inner woman.
      Agree again, she was really seriously mad in Dead Ringer – that is the most angry we have seen her I think.

      Like

      • LOL. Torture device… 😀

        Yep, yep, yep. I like what you say, Shona. 🙂

        Oh, and I forgot hurt–I think there’s a lot of hurt here too. 😦 Poor Amanda. 😦 Lee needs a good ol’ kick in the wherever-you-think-appropriate…

        Like

        • Doh! Hurt! Yes, of course. Bad Lee, very bad boy. Now, where to kick him…. hmmmm, not there, uh, not there, ooooh, definitely not there! 😉
          Can we just give him a slap over the wrist with a wet bus ticket on this occasion? 🙂

          Like

          • I think definitely yes there… put the kibosh on any, uh, fun plans with Leslie. puts on an innocent expression and wanders away to find Jule down the rabbit hole Muah hah hah!

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  17. I love, love, love, love this scene. I agree with so much of what you said. Amanda is ticked off and Lee is dazed and confused. Lee’s listing off of Leslie’s “qualifications” is not just to Amanda but also his explanation to himself for this deviation from “Randy-baby” types. You can just imagine that he’s been hearing this little voice telling him that those relationships are unsatisfying now that he’s growing as a person (because of Amanda) but he’s not ready to say he actually wants Amanda. So he figures he still needs to compartmentalize his life but also needs someone who won’t be totally ignorant of his life. So enter Leslie. I keep envisioning him listing off that same checklist in his head when he meets her saying ‘yep – this one will work’ plus that additional checklist – ‘Not a mom, not challenging to me, not Amanda’. Meanwhile he is completely baffled by Amanda’s anger. And I love that she’s angry here. I know this sounds strange but her being angry with him to me is growth in the relationship as well. They’ve been mad at each other before but about stuff. This is about feelings and their relationship (even if they don’t admit it). She has spend so much of the series so far feeling inferior to him because he’s the agent and she’s the housewife. Here she stands up to him. They walked into the apartment partners. Now he’s blowing her off again as unnecessary and she’ll unwilling to roll over and take it. I think Amanda’s also a bit upset that he doesn’t even address what just happened. Even when Amanda brings her up, he says the bare minimum and changes the subject. He doesn’t acknowledge that it was awkward or that he’s sorry that she was put in that position. Amanda is definitely over her limit. She is willing to wait for him to be ready for their relationship but not willing to play these games. One minute she’s important to him and the next she’s supposed to “go straight home’ and can be replaced with Francine. Well not this time buster….

    Like

    • I like what you say here about Amanda’s anger. Although I am not sure if she is aware that she is waiting for him. I do like that second to last sentence, “one minute she is important to him and the next she’s supposed to “go straight home” and can be replaced…”

      Like

  18. Hate to post and dash, but the number one thought I have about this post is “Lee, you SUCK!”. Seriously. I’ll be back later — there is so much to discuss.

    Like

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