On to a plant of some kind.. it’s meet the baddies time!
Crawford is meeting with a baddie..named Gregory – he must be bad.. he only gets a one word name! Oh this actor, James Cromwell, was the owner of Babe the pig.. you know ‘Babe’?? La laa laaaaaaa!
Anyway…. Gregory is annoyed Crawford ‘didn’t get it’
Crawford explains there’s been a set back but no biggie.. the letter is in a safe place. Ahhh I see… so Gregory wants the letter Crawford stole.
Gregory has paid Crawford 50,000..
Gregory: the deadline has passed. And I use that term advisedly.
Crawford says he deserves a bit more patience from Gregory.. he’s been setting up this deal for a whole month! (Doesn’t seem long to me!) taping ‘his’ phones.. following ‘him’ to Gregory.. (Since the letter was Harry V. Thornton’s I can only guess he is talking about him).
Crawford tells Gregory that with this letter, he’s “going to be able to bring down the whole agency and nail Thornton for 30 years of double dealing.”
Gregory: I want that letter by 2 o’clock tomorrow afternoon. Or we will kill you in some terrible manner……. reeeeally terrible.
Whahahahahaahh that has got to be the worst baddie dialogue ever!!! Really terrible dialogue! 😉 hilarious!!!! come on.. why finish there.. make it really really really really terrible! muahahahah! Let’s hope he’s kinder to his pig..
Amanda pulls up out the front of a town house.. man I feel like I’ve seen this exterior a dozen times now! This was the officer’s club in A relative situation! [quite handy for Harry when he wants to party no?? ] and where the party was held at the start of Life of the party. Aie! they really haven’t even tried to change how it looks.. oh well. anyway.. this must be 33 Du pont circle, where the card said to come.. Zulu Blue!
Amanda heads inside.. leaving her car unlocked.. and her windows down!!! [I’m thinking the windows reflect the camera crew, maybe that’s why they are down?]
Inside, Amanda finds Harry V. Thornton with his orchids.. hmm that is the sort of thing refined baddies do!!! are we suppose to at some point question whether Harry is a good guy? Hmm.. let’s see what his phone looks like!
Harry: have a seat Mrs King. Orchids are err delicate flowers, you know that. They can’t do a thing for themselves. You got my card?
Amanda: Yes Sir. Sir, you look very familiar.
Harry: Ahhh that’s good. So you recognise this face. My portrait. The Agency. Georgetown foyer?
[Amanda tries to look blank!]
.. they gave me the painting when I retired. It made me look old so I left it.
Amanda: ha. sorry.. I don’t what you’re talking about.
Harry: that’s alright Mrs King, I know all about you.
I’m Harry V. Thornton….
… I started that infernal place in ‘54. [that’s the date the letter was written!] …and I’ve still got my clearance. Here’s my ID.
Harry gets it out and gives it to Amanda to inspect.
As Amanda takes it to look at it Harry adds: You’re every bit as pretty as Lee says you are.
hmm.. yes mention Lee.. and give her a compliment.. that might win over her trust! Hmm.. do you think Lee really said this? I’m not convinced.. I don’t think that Amanda is either. It sounds like a line to convince Amanda.. but hey, YMMV!
I mean, why would Lee admit that to anyone when he isn’t even comfortable admitting it to himself?!
Harry continues: haaa.. every bit!
IMHO Amanda doesn’t seem to really react to this to me.. what do you think? she is more intent on ensuring his ID checks out.. rightly so…
Harry walks over to his desk while Amanda looks at his ID.
Harry: this is my cat Ike.
[Love how right on cue the cat says: Meow! like hi Amanda! ]
…. ID check out?
Amanda has a close look at it.. and we see a close up:
You know what’s funny – it doesn’t check out!!! rofl!!!
In the episode it does though, and Amanda responds: Yes Sir!
Why do I think it doesn’t check out? the codes are all wrong.. the fake ID that Crawford had breaking into the State Department for Harry’s private papers? that ID had the correct codes on it!!!
It matched the read out the security guy had,…
and the label on Harry’s private papers filing cabinet drawer…
– Harry’s ID code matches nothing! whahahaahaaaa!!
Anyway, I’ll pretend it does check out.. and that Amanda can suddenly have very long finger nails!
Harry: you know about the codes and signals? you know the window warning?
Harry advises Amanda that if she ever sees a pot of flowers at the window there that means trouble, so stay away..
Love the looks Amanda gives in response to this.. yes Amanda, it’s like something out of a novel
(file that one away.. hmm think we might need it!)
Ahh.. Harry doesn’t have a baddie phone.. or a tea set.. he checks out! phew!!
Harry: You know what Zulu Blue means?
Amanda: Oh yes sir, respond without question. that’s why I’m here.
[All this code talk.. and Amanda understanding zulu blue?? I think it hints to us that Amanda is beginning to get more training at the agency!]
I think Zulu Blue is a good one to use with kids! rofl.. okay who here has taught their kids to respond without question??!!
Harry: Good. I want you to spy on Lee Stetson.
Amanda quickly: I think I better be going!..
love her big smile here.. like cha! yeah right!
Harry: give me a minute. I mean Lee no harm. He’s a lot like my own boy. (hmm.. Lee could use a father figure! strange this oh so close relationship comes out of thin air! but … I figure this is a contrivance of the script and I’ll go with it) … I just want you to be my eyes and ears at the agency.
Harry: A few hours ago, a fire was started in my secret papers at the State Department. I’ve got to find out about a letter from Ike.
Amanda raises her eyebrows.
Harry: not the cat! The General.
Amanda: you think somebody wanted to burn your letter?
Harry: Not burn it, take it! The fire was a diversion. The letter is invaluable Mrs King.
…It’s Ike’s presidential pardon to me in advance. I work for the Russians.
(Amanda frowns at hearing this)
… but I err.. really work for us. I’m a triple agent and err.. Lee doesn’t know…
[triple? my head hurts already!] … somehow the Russians found out about that letter and took it. and we’ve gotta get it back.
Amanda: I think you should tell Lee sheesh..
Amanda smiles.. she’s uncomfortable with going behind Lee’s back..
Harry: this is dangerous for him. You see, that letter is all I’ve got to prove that I’m not a turncoat. I created the agency. I hired all the senior people. Lee in 73’. If I’m branded a traitor, they’ll all be suspect as double agents. The agency would be terminated. And if they catch Lee working on this for me?!! It would be worse for him.
[I don’t see why it isn’t dangerous for Amanda.. she does work for the agency, even if she isn’t an agent.. meh!]
Amanda: Yeah but why do you want me to watch him?
Harry: You’re unique Amanda. You’re not an agent… (rub it in why don’t you ) …but Lee trusts you completely, and that’s good enough for me. You’re exactly what I need for this.
Amanda: ahh gee I don’t know..
Harry: I know you don’t, but Lee says you have good instincts. He says he’d follow you blind through a blizzard at midnight…
[oh boy.. Harry pulls out the big guns to convince Amanda to help him.. do you think Lee said this????? I think this one is more likely than saying Amanda is pretty.. Lee probably said Amanda has good instincts.. but the blizzard bit might be an embellishment..it doesn’t sound like something Lee would say to me! but I don’t care – Lee saying Amanda has good instincts is compliment enough to get excited about!!! what do you make of it? ]
Amanda: ohh come on, ..
…he didn’t say that.
[I’m with you Amanda! I doubt it!! Amanda can see when she is being buttered up! The first time I saw this I was believing everything Harry said- I just loved the idea of Lee saying all this wonderful stuff about Amanda!!]
Harry: sure he did! Which is how I know you’ll make the right decision.
Whoooo that will do it! Amanda and her instincts seems to be front and centre this episode.. I think regardless of her seeing Harry is trying to butter her up, she can still see he is telling the truth.. so she’s on board.
A bit worried about doing this to Lee.. but.. on board! From the look on her face, she isn’t thrilled to have to do this to Lee though.. eek!!
Oh by the way, what do you all make of the premise of this plot? I find the existence of one letter to save Harry’s innocence, and protect the downfall of the agency pretty lame! The agency and this letter have no fail safe! ridiculous!!!
If Harry started the agency, and his double agent stuff was discovered, it would bring down the agency – so why did he do it?!!! You would think he would not have chosen to become a triple agent if he knew not only his own liberty was at stake, but also that of every one at the agency and the agency itself? meh.. or lol maybe the gamble was soooo huge and ridiculous it made it more believable to the Russians that he was selling out the US!
Oh and what’s with the V? I keep thinking it’s the number 5 lol.. it may mean he double crosses 5 countries simultaneously? lol.. did Eisenhower use an initial? anyone? US presidents? I’ll leave that to actual Americans I think!
okay well I better finish up here! As always I can’t wait to hear what you think of this episode so far!!! byeee!!
When Harry V. Thornton tells Amanda that Lee told him: “I would follow her blind through a blizzard at midnight,” it took me back to S1 Disc 3 “The Long Christmas Eve.” In that episode, Amanda used her knowledge that moss grows on the north side of trees. We know Amanda had never been to that cabin; yet she immediately set off, not Lee’s direction, but he followed her. Lee was out of commission with the bullet in his upper chest and Amanda negotiated a Christmas truce with the KGB. Her kindness caused the uninjured KGB to retrieve the first aid kit, enabling her to do what she could for Lee. By the time midnight rolled around and the cabin was surrounded by US and Soviet armed forces, Amanda had the cabin occupants singing a Christmas carol as a heavy snow had begun to fall. In fact, the snow was STILL falling as Lee, in his hospital bed, was popping a champagne cork.
This episode is why I have no doubt in my mind that Lee told Harry: I WOULD FOLLOW HER BLIND THROUGH A BLIZZARD AT MIDNIGHT!
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Oh that’s so heartwarming Nancy! I love that image!
I’m a little late to the game and was going to wait to start commenting until I had caught up a little more, but… You had asked about presidents (I tried to skim the comments and didn’t see a response, sorry if someone has already brought this up). The president that came to mind for me was Harry S. Truman–and the S. was all it was, he had no actual middle name–maybe it was the same for our Mr. Thornton.
Welcome to Just Walk with Me Emily! I’ll be back to welcome you more fully later.. Hooray! 🙂
Hello Emily – welcome!
So glad you’ve found JWWM, and that you’ve decide to jump on in and share your thoughts!
It’s okay I think every person who stops by and comments didn’t start reading the blog from when it first started.. but I’m thrilled that everyone has joined the walk wherever!
Yeah the dilemma at this stage I guess is: do I catch up and then jump in? or jump in while the walk is happening and catch up as much as I can on the side?
I’m guessing if I were in your shoes, I’d do both – join the walk where it currently is so I can interact with everyone in real time, but try and slowly catch up on the side and post the odd comment about earlier posts too.. but then, I really value the walking with others part of this journey.. really do what works for you Emily, and we are happy for you to join in however and whenever you can 🙂
Thanks for answering this question about presidents.. Gosh I have to remember what the question was now – did I ask if the name Harry V. Thornton was a play on a former US president?
Really Harry S. Truman had no middle name?! that’s kinda cool!
Welcome Emily! [do you have 3 faces?! ]
The British had a triple agent, code named Zigzag, during WW2. He was an Englishman who offered his services to the Germans, but was in reality working for SOE (Special Operations Executive.) By all accounts he wasn’t a particularly nice guy – real name Eddie Chapman.
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zigzag?! what a fab name for him! aie!!
Apparently it was to do with his rather erratic behaviour, not his affiliation. By all accounts he was not the most honest person – had rather a shady past (he’d been arrested for theft, cheque forgery etc.) But Oskar Schindler was no saint either. Kind’ve makes you think when it’s those people you wouldn’t ordinarily consider as heroes that do something heroic. Perhaps a lesson for all of us there.
I really can’t see Lee volunteering those comments about Amanda on his own. But I could see him making the “blind through a blizzard” comment if he is jumping to Amanda’s defense. Here’s how that could possibly work: Lee and Harry go back a long way, but he doesn’t talk to Harry real often these days. But he has seen him fairly recently, after he has come to accept and show appreciation for Amanda’s role in his life. Harry asks about Lee’s new partner, and is incredulous when he finds out she is part-time, still in training, and a housewife. “Lee, what are you thinking? Her lack of training could get you killed!” Lee answers, “Aw, c’mon, Harry, she’s got good instincts. I mean, I’d follow her blind through a blizzard.” Harry shows amusement. He knows Lee’s background, and his tendancy to get involved with women, even when they are collegues. “Good looking, I suppose”. “Well, she is, Harry, but it isn’t like that at all.”
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Love your version you created to explain this uncharacteristic comments of Lee’s Happycampero, it sounds so much like Lee…Good job!
I totally agree! If provoked (or inebriated like raffie5 said), I could definitely see Lee saying something like that.
My theory on the “pretty” comment, though, is Lee griping that he can’t leave her alone at a party for five minutes without her being swarmed by attractive, well-to-do men. Or that somehow her latest ‘casual surveillance’ assignment turned into a dinner date a la ALLA.
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“My theory on the “pretty” comment, though, is Lee griping that he can’t leave her alone at a party for five minutes without her being swarmed by attractive, well-to-do men. Or that somehow her latest ‘casual surveillance’ assignment turned into a dinner date a la ALLA.”
This theory of your is spot on … it’s Lee Stetson to the bone!
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That works for me!! 🙂
Another famous guest on SMK! This episode is chock full of ‘em! Just one question though, is the fur around Gregory’s coat weasel fur? It looks like it could come to life and jump off his shoulders. Maybe that’s the reaaally terrible manner they’ll kill Crawford with – surprise weasel attack!
Very funny about Harry’s address. If he lives on a circle, why is Amanda parking on a straight street?
Love Harry V.! Not the orchids though – plus they look a bit fake. LOL. I think Amanda looks particularly beautiful in this scene. I’ve always thought that Harry was telling the truth about what Lee said to him about Amanda, but now that I’m on this blog and thinking more critically about the show, I think Harry may be exaggerating a little bit. I think Lee and Harry have talked about Amanda. Things like how much Lee trusts her would not be in a file for Harry to read, I don’t think. The blizzard comment sounds like a kids book title (a la Magic Treehouse), I wonder if Mary Pope Osborne was an SMK fan.
I can’t believe I’ve never tried Zulu Blue with my kids! I may have to experiment this summer….
Harry knows just how to be folksy with Amanda here. He is the founder of the Agency, knew Ike personally, and yet here he is conversing with Amanda and treating her in this manner. Very smooth Harry V. No wonder I like you.
I’ve always wondered why Amanda was so trusting of Harry V. Yes, she saw an ID, yes his picture is in the Georgetown foyer, but he’s just told her he’s a flippin’ triple agent and Lee doesn’t know and oh, can you spy on Lee for me??? With two years of experience behind her, I wonder what is really going through her mind. I’m sure she would really like to get Lee’s opinion on this!
I can see Lee telling Harry that Amanda is pretty – how she makes a good cover at embassy parties and such – but not in a ‘hot babe’ kind of way. And the blizzard comment I could hear him saying, but I do think Harry’s embellished it a bit with alliteration to make it sound good.
I think the plot is weak…hahaha…are there many episodes with strong plots? Why would Harry use Amanda? Is it because of her connection with Lee? I don’t get it. A non-agent housewife would not seem like a good choice. Does he not have other contacts? I’m still not sure why Lee is important here yet. I guess that will unfold as we move on!
About the V. in Harry’s name? I have no ideas right now. I’ll keep mulling it over, although I’m sure there are some clever ideas further down the thread that I’ve not read yet!
OK, I was supposed to remember something for a mention in Dancing Weasel and I’m pretty sure it had to do with instincts. Of course I do not remember. However, Lee has been relying on Amanda’s instincts more and more in the most recent episodes (and looking ahead [forgive me], into a future and not-too-far-off S3 ep, we will see evidence of this as he figuratively follows her blind through a building looking for a room) so I completely can picture Lee sharing the “blizzard sentiment” with Harry over a 3rd or 4th beer as the discussion goes deeper into his new partnership.
I think that while Lee’s relationship with Amanda progresses, so does his relationships with other people. Even though we don’t see it, I bet Lee keeps in better contact with his Uncle. Maybe even the 3 of them have gotten together again since RS. Harry is obviously someone that Lee knows since he hired him and he may be someone that Lee has always looked up to (like Emily). I could see a scenario where Billy forces Lee to take some time off after playing burnt out. You know Lee wouldn’t want to talk to a shrink; however, maybe he goes and talks to Harry. Explaining the case Harry, he would see that Amanda has great instincts and how much Lee trusts her. I could also imagine that Harry would ask Lee to describe Amanda to him (imagine him describing Amanda the same way Amanda talks about Lee to Magda!). I don’t think that he would go to that extent. I might also imagine that Lee talks about Amanda’s inner beauty even more than her outer beauty (think OOADP). But I agree that Lee wouldn’t have used the words that Harry used. But that is what Harry saw from Lee. It wouldn’t be the first time for someone to jump to conclusions about the two of them being in a closer relationship than what they are actually in. But, I guess my point is that now that he is opening up to Amanda more, he may also be opening up to other people he knows.
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Like this LAAL. I did think of the way Amanda described Lee to Magda early on, and it occurred to me that maybe Lee did a version of the same thing with Harry not long after Lee had met Amanda. I can imagine him describing her as having a “knock out figure and great legs… for a housewife”.
We can’t assume he related his thoughts on Amanda in an admiring way, although his comments would have become laced with more respect and admiration as time went by. I imagine he and Harry didn’t talk about Amanda that much as I don’t think Lee would have been comfortable with that.
In regard to the “blind through a blizzard at midnight” comment, he may have said it in exasperation after Amanda had stumbled across something and/or used her instincts or “normal life expertise” to solve a recent case, e.g. “God, I don’t know how she does it Harry but you could follow her blind through a blizzard at midnight and somehow she’d get you through!”
Apologies, I’m not a writer, but you get the drift.
Versions and snippets of what Harry relayed to Amanda could have been said by Lee at any time of the last couple of years. I think from these occasional comments Harry has gained a pretty good insight into how Lee really feels about Amanda. Hence, I don’t think he was entirely making up the comments he attributed to Lee about Amanda.
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OOOOOH! Really like this Kiwismh!
Like like like both of your scenarios!
Like what you here too, kiwismh! I had to laugh though, one of my favorite sayings, “Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while” is what came to my mind as I was reading.
I love your example of how the blizzard comment came to be!
Suddenly I want to write it into a fanfic… 😀
Yes, I want to turn some of these thoughts in fanfics but real life keeps getting in the way. Which reminds me check my Lotto ticket – I might have more free time than I think this week! 😉
Like this, LAAL!
I do think Harry knows how well Lee thinks off Amanda, either directly or indirectly. But really…..Lee would never use the blizzard reference. It doesn’t feel quite like Harry is being glib or schmoozing but he’s definitely embellishing to provoke trust in Amanda. Which I suppose is what spies do, they get people to trust them by any means possible so perhaps this is in his nature.
I am now sat here imagining what the V stands for…..Victor….nah too Russian sounding. Virgil? I reckon it’s Vivien and now. I have image of the Young Ones in my head LOL
Poor Amanda having to spy on Lee, not something she wants to do but she will do it. I do find the whole premise of this letter a bit weak…..but since when do I look in SMKland for cast iron plots 😉
As an aside how well has James Cromwell aged…..or maybe he was old looking before his time?!!
Thanks, learjet5. It just seemed to flow out from the episode to me. I do think Lee and Harry might have spent some time together in order to know each other that well.
I have heard of triple agents somewhere, and I suppose it would be bad for anyone close to them. Maybe there were more records to support Harry in those crazy files, but the letter was the main thing since it was a pardon for what he was about to do.
Sorry, this was supposed to be a reply, not a separate comment.
I agree with Learjet Debilyn, I checked out your fab story and it does actually begin to seem plausible – even to suspicious me! 🙂
I think part of why it is unbelievable is because we don’t know anything of Lee and Harry- if we’d seen interactions like the one you wrote, I might have bought it more readily!
Harry is confusing to me.. in the overall arc of the show.. but I guess I can’t explore that now! lol
Anyway, thanks for sharing your story with us that relates to this moment! 🙂
The fact that we don’t see everything that may be a regular part of Lee and Amanda’s life, like this relationship with Lee and Harry, is one of the things that I like about SMK. It adds added dimensions to the character development. We aren’t completely omniscient. We know as much about Lee as Amanda does, and vice versa. It is perfectly plausible that Harry does see Lee as a son, that he has been building a relationship with him for over 10 years. We are just learning it as Amanda has been. Having this limited knowledge of the characters is part of what makes the show so much fun to talk about and gives so much fodder for fanfic writers 😉
hiya! yeah that does all sound good to me.. I think it can be tricky though when what we do know about a character doesn’t seem to fit with what we are currently being shown. When it is new info- great but when it is new and doesn’t seem in character it needs a little more finesse me thinks..
but I totally hear what you’re say.. hooray for fan fic writers. I only wish I had time to read more.. but I’m saving that for when the walk is over.. yes.. it will have to end one day! 😉 but.. the smk fun doesn’t!!
Iwsod I’ve commented a few times but haven’t had the chance to tell you how much your blog brightens my days! Other than being an outlet for my smk addiction, it also helped me live through the dying (in more ways than one!) days of my thesis. Thank you!!
Hi learjet! Awh thank you!!! so glad you found us!!!
I handed in a thesis last year myself.. so I feel your pain! Is it all done? Good luck!
SMK is a brilliant distraction from the stresses of real life.. it brightens my day too – as does hearing from my fellow smk fans! 🙂
I agree, Morley. But one of the reasons why I get a bit tired with S3 is that they use this tactic a bit too much for my taste. Don’t want to say more, and I’m sure I’ll comment on it as we get there in our walk.
I never made the connection between Babe and Gregory. I love Babe. All he had to say was, “that’ll do pig” I love that. So Gregory is the same guy, wow.
I think as Lee and Amanda move into a more personal relationship we meet more of Lee’s close friends. It is kind of like we travel with Amanda here. First we meet TP, now Harry. I do think Lee must talk with Harry often, and I bet Harry picks up on some of what Lee says, and does what we do, read into every little thing. He is a spy after all. Maybe Lee didn’t say those words verbatim, but maybe he understood where Lee was at even before Lee did. Lee may not have said those things, but they are accurate. Lee does truly think it.
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Like your explanation here Morley about Harry picking up on what Lee says and reading between the lines.
I don’t see Harry as buttering Amanda up. I think he respects her intelligence more than that. Even though this is the first time he has met her, he has clearly been impressed by what he has heard about her. However, Harry may be conveying more what he suspects Lee feels rather than what Lee actually said in so many words.
Yeah! that sounds good to me too!
though, I also don’t see trying to be persuasive as assuming someone is unintelligent 🙂
Persuasion based on fact is entirely legitimate – I do this every day in my job.
But it just sounded like it was being suggested that Harry assumed that throwing a few empty compliments to Amanda would make her giddy enough to do what he wanted. I may have misunderstood what was being implied.
Heck, only the second post in this episode and we already have controversy! 😉
LOL I wouldn’t label this ‘controversy’ but others may! 🙂 All part of the exploration in my book..
I wasn’t thinking Harry’s compliments were empty – even if I didn’t think Lee really said those words. They were embellished facts (which is why I still think they are encouraging insights into how Lee sees Amanda 🙂 )
Persuasion is sometimes not about facts but about how something is presented.. my idea of what is persuasion is pretty broad 🙂
Other commenters may feel Harry’s compliments were empty though, I’m not sure.. and..fair enough!
I won’t speak for them.. and they can think that if they like! and.. you can disagree if you like too! 🙂 plenty of room for different views here 🙂
Oh yes, never controversy…I like that we don’t all think alike and can share our own thoughts because we all see it a little differently based on our upbringing, values, life experiences, etc. I want to know other points of view on things. I like to hear all sides so I can try to consider all the different viewpoints. When I was a teenager, I was extremely opinionated, quick to judge, and dismissive of others, so my mother used to tell me to put myself in other’s shoes. Now that I’m much older and wiser, ahem, I find that I am almost too slow to judge and like to keep an open mind – or at least not try to judge or invalidate what someone else is thinking just because I may not share their opinion.
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I like Gregory a lot too. ‘kill you in some terrible way’ is a great line. I agree that the letter plot is a little silly but the concept makes sense. Harry was most assuredly a triple agent from the beginning rather than a double who decided to get back on the right side. It would have been a “mission” for Harry to be a triple with probably very, very few people involved but there would have been records or a file. Instead of a single page letter I think it would have been more “realistic” (if that word can ever apply) for it to have been a computer disk or a microchip or something like that with the details of his triple agent work. But either way I’m willing to let it slide.
And no – in general Americans don’t have afternoon tea.
“Or we will kill you in some terrible manner……. reeeeally terrible.”
I wonder whether that’s where they got some of the inspiration for Dr. Evil’s unscary baddie dialogue (in Austin Powers)…???… But at least that had brilliant gems like the Alan Parsons Project/Wang-Chung/Bananarama conversation between Dr. Evil and Scott. ROFL!
“Orchids are err delicate flowers, you know that. They can’t do a thing for themselves.”
Uhhh… what flowers can? With the possible exception of carnivorous plants, of course. Muah hah hah… Of course, if Harry had managed to train his other plants to be able to water themselves and fertilize themselves, etc etc etc, then I think I want him to train mine!!!
“It sounds like a line to convince Amanda.. but hey, YMMV!”
I don’t think Lee would say that Amanda is pretty. I think he would use a lot of other descriptive words about her, such as her kindness, patience, perceptiveness, outside-the-box solutions, and instincts (!) but he would be hesitant to mention physical attributes; I think that he would be worried about giving away too much by saying anything like that. However, I also think that if he were pushed/talking to someone he really trusted, he might say she’s beautiful, but not “pretty”. Just my two cents.
“Oh and what’s with the V?”
Maybe just to differentiate himself from other Harry Thorntons? Possibly that was the equivalent of Joe Smith back then, or maybe his father was also Harry Thornton and Harry V. didn’t want to be Harry Thornton Junior, or Harry Thornton II???
President Eisenhower is often named as Dwight D. Eisenhower so an initial is used. There was also Franklin D. Roosevelt, John F. Kennedy, Rutherford B. Hayes, and Warren G. Harding to name a few. Eisenhower is also referred to as Ike.
Usually the middle initial is used in formal situations or legal documents etc. It’s a little odd in Harry’s case, not so much that his ID or his pardon used that name since those would be legal documents but that people seemed to refer to him that way..
I like Gregory already. Despite the corny dialogue he has a real sense of menace about him. Hmmm, a contender for the top 5 Seriously Bad Bad Guys of S3. Go Gregory! I think that little dweeb does deserve to be rubbed out in a “really terrible way”. 😉 Scooched and rubbed out, just like that!
Interesting Iwsod that you think Harry isn’t being genuine in his comments that Lee has made about Amanda. That has never occurred to me. I watched this scene again to see what I could pick up in this regard. I see Harry look closely at Amanda for a few moments before he says, “You’re every bit as pretty as Lee says you are.” I think this is genuine, although maybe not Lee’s exact words but I think Lee has indicated to Harry that Amanda is an attractive woman. This is probably something he has said to Harry in recent months – since BO maybe?
There is a lot that has gone on off-screen that we have to imagine in this scene. Lee obviously visits Harry on a semi-regular basis, maybe once in a while for afternoon tea (okay, that could be an NZ English tradition I am assuming happens in the US too, but something similar). They obviously talk about things going on at the agency and the people there, so it is not surprising that they have probably talked about Amanda often in the past couple of years since she has been quite integral to Lee’s day to day Agency work over that time.
I can imagine Lee commenting, especially mid S2 onwards that Amanda is attractive. Or he could have even made that comment when they first started working together if Harry had asked Lee about her. I can see Le justifying this as a statement of fact rather than a subjective (personal) opinion. After all, Amanda is an attractive woman.
Harry’s subsequent comments make me think he is not making up the compliments. He has obviously gained quite a bit of info about Amanda from Lee – he knows that she holds a unique position at the agency, not being an agent but being on the inside and having Lee’s complete trust. This tells me that Lee has spoken about Amanda to Harry quite a bit! “He’d follow you blind through a blizzard at midnight” – that’s a bit of a mouthful for Harry just to make up for the purposes of cajoling Amanda into helping him.
I’m not saying Harry’s not practiced at the art of cajoling, he clearly is. But if Amanda thought he was just buttering her up and wasn’t genuine in what he was saying, I don’t think she would be so comfortable with him or willing to help him.
So now we know Lee started at the Agency in his early 20’s in 1973. Interesting little fact, along with the “colleges he got kicked out of” (can’t remember what episode that was from) that form the basis of a pre-SMK fanfic. Hint, hint all you talented writers out there.
Gregory is good value.. reeeeeaaallly good value 😉
yeah I know..I’m probably in the minority! I don’t think Lee said those things Harry attributes to him! But.. I think Harry is embellishing what he has heard about Amanda from Lee – he does know about her from Lee and it probably is based on truth.. I think he says it to get her onboard.. Harry is a clever guy, a good guy, a genuine guy, and I think what he does here is calculated 🙂
Harry may have asked Lee if Amanda was attractive and he could have said well James Delano thinks so. lol!! tee hee 😉 there are many ways Lee could have said it but ‘Amanda is pretty’ doesn’t sound like Lee to me lol!
Also, I figured Lee had shared with Harry how much he trusts Amanda.. but the words Harry gave to this didn’t ring true for me.. but that’s just me! 🙂 and lol I wasn’t looking to make a big point over it, I still think it speaks to what Lee thinks of Amanda.. just not as much as others may think.
yeah! there’s so much fodder for fan fic in this episode.. and some great stuff coming up!
It’s quite a while before we see Lee and Amanda interacting in this episode isn’t it.. but I guess Amanda is thinking of Lee while in her meeting with Harry..
Oh well.. I best be off! Byeee
I don’t know if you are in the minority. I always thought the things Harry said Lee said didn’t sound like Lee. I am not sure we are suppose to think Harry is lying. I always got the impression the show had Harry saying Lee said those things about Amanda to give us the impression of a close relationship between Lee and Harry. Harry and Lee are so close that he admits things about Amanda he wouldn’t normally tell anyone, after all like you said in your post the show is trying to create this close relationship out of thin air. But I didn’t buy it. I think Lee might have said some generic things about Amanda like she is attractive and she has good instincts and Harry just compounded the statements to butter Amanda up. Lee would follow Amanda blind through a blizzard, c’mon at what point did Lee supposedly say this? I am not even convinced that is how Lee sees Amanda at this point. And every bit as pretty as Lee says you are? What does that mean? That makes it sound like Lee not only said Amanda was pretty, but went on about it. That doesn’t sound like Lee. I am sure he does think Amanda is pretty, but I just can’t picture him going on like that about anyone. Can you picture Lee acting like a school boy telling anyone that a girl is just so pretty? I can’t. I think Lee would describe Amanda as having good instincts, but would not say that part about the blizzard. I agree with whoever said that Lee probably wouldn’t even bring up Amanda’s looks when describing her. If Harry asked, Lee would probably say she is attractive. But again I see Lee being much more generic and Harry compounding on what he said. It’s not like Lee to gush. Even when he and Amanda are a couple he only gushes a little bit a few times, and I don’t think that’s normal territory for him.
I will say this, though. I think the one statement Harry totally hit the nail on the head with was about Amanda being in an unique position because she’s not an agent but Lee trusts her completely. Obviously Lee did talk about Amanda enough for Harry to know that Lee does trust her completely. I think anyone who knows Lee knows trust does not come easily to him so Lee must have said quite a bit about Amanda for Harry to know that. I don’t see Lee gushing, though. I always got the impression that if we are suppose to believe that Lee and Harry do have a close relationship that Lee and Harry had probably talked on a semi on going basis through the years, and Lee is close enough to Harry that he did talk about Amanda to him over the years and that Harry could see Lee had slowly come to trust Amanda. Harry is suppose to be agency too so I can’t see him trusting Amanda based on one conversation with Lee.
I agree that Lee didn’t say those things. I think Lee has talked to Harry about Amanda but Harry made up the actual “quotes”. I also believe it’s more than just buttering her up. It took me a few times watching this episode before I decided to believe that Harry and Lee were as close as the portray. It just came out of left field. But once I decided to go ahead and believe the relationship, I also decided that in addition to buttering her up he’s playing a little match-maker. We know Lee has spoken to Harry about Amanda and that Harry is supposedly retired so that means Amanda came up in social conversation. If Harry knows Lee that well he probably senses Lee’s feelings for her and also knows Lee is going to be slow as molasses (if not worse) to doing anything about it. So telling Amanda a few white lies about what he actually said to convey what he’s sure Lee believes it something a father-like person might do to help out a relationship.
I like the idea of Harry V. Thorton being a little bit of a match maker. If they have been in regular contact over the last few years, he would have noticed how Lee’s demeanor has changed when he talks about Amanda. And I am sure he has had a few side conversations with Billy about Lee’s new ‘partner’ when Amanda came onto the scene.
I think it was a very smart move by the producers to have Amanda work seperately from Lee these last few episodes. It helps establish that she is a serious agent (if not officially) in her own right and not just riding along with Lee. A very important development (IMHO) if there is to be a romance in their future (no spoilers, alway wishful thinking even when I saw this for the first time 😉 )
Hear Hear Cindy!!!! 🙂 I love that we see this separate growth in Amanda’s work too!!!
Enhances the relationship progress too 🙂
Haa!.. I don’t think it’s a spoiler to say Lee and Amanda end up together.. lol.. we all seem to know that already 🙂 – and though I haven’t seen season 3 or 4 for a very long time – I certainly haven’t forgotten that plot development whahahaahaa 🙂
Thanks for being careful with spoilers though Cindy – much appreciated 🙂
I love the idea of Harry playing matchmaker!
To the letter plot, I simply say – Why not? Many things can hinge on one thing. Why not a letter? Though you think he’d have it at his home somewhere instead of government storage.
As to the “blizzard” statement, I’ve got a fanfic I wrote to answer that question, and I found another one recently. If someone is interested, here is my link: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/7992528/1/A-Conversation-with-Harry. I was watching an older episode when this occurred to me. As to the other one: I don’t know who the author is, but I hope they don’t mind if I link to their version of this story: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/20735/1/Friendly-Advice.
I enjoyed how you wrote this Debilyn esp when you set it. Made Lee’s reported comments much more plausible. I’m looking forward to reading more of your fanfic.
debilyn, I really appreciated that you linked your story. I do love it when all the different parts of the story get integrated. If Lee did meet with Harry on a regular basis, I could see a conversation like this happening. I even wonder if Lee met with Harry as sort of a check up / accountability thing, maybe. I wonder if he had to meet with Harry after his little anger outburst in OTL. Maybe that was another reason he called Amanda in on this one, because Harry sensed something changing in Lee and Amanda’s professional initiative. Maybe he could even sense their growing relationship and wanted to test how they could work together as they grew closer. If Harry is a perceptive leader he would notice these things, and if he was a personal friend and did have a fatherly relationship with Lee he might no take a completely academic view of work/ personal relationships. Not sure if I said that clearly…
I also liked reading your story because I am working on the thoughts for Spider Web at this moment. I like the way you have Lee reacting to his relationship with Amanda, things just slip out, Harry picks them up, Lee tries to sweep them away. Harry gets it, Lee doesn’t.
Thanks, morley and iwsod. I like thinking about how Lee and Amanda’s relationship looked to other people. I’m one of those people who doesn’t mind suspending disbelief because it gives me a chance to let my imagination run wild. The sillier, the funnier, the better, though I generally get back to something plausible sooner or later. 🙂