We find Amanda walking to IFF, and entering through the front entrance. This is an unusual view of the street IFF is on!
– she’s being followed by Mr Prescott – does she know?
[She noticed the car following them last week (in flight to freedom) – so you’d think she’d notice it this week when she knows Joe is in trouble and the powers that be will be watching her?! Do you think she notices? I guess we’ll see..
If she doesn’t… this would make me wonder if this ep could come before last week’s episode Flight to Freedom.. hmm interesting!]
So why is Amanda walking? I guess Amanda took public transport from her meeting with Mr Prescott and then over to IFF?
Ahhh so Amanda has headed straight for Billy’s office.. how interesting.. that she still hasn’t seen or spoken to Lee.. Do you think this means anything?
Billy: Amanda, come in.
Amanda: Thank you sir.
Interesting that Billy gets up from his desk and walks around to the front of his desk to talk to Amanda – this is unusual..
Hmm.. maybe Billy is wanting to support Amanda here and not be too intimidating in his ‘boss’ role (heaven knows Lee isn’t intimidated by it ha!)
do you think that tall ship was in the office back at the Triton Club last week?
Billy: You heard about your ex-husband?
Amanda looks a little surprised.. maybe she thought this meeting with Billy was going to be her breaking the news to Billy about Joe!
Amanda.. they have their ways!!
Amanda: Ah yes sir, from a Mr Prescott at EAO.
[Hmm did she?? or is she lying here? Joe told her.. but did the EAO contact her also? I find this a little confusing.. doesn’t really matter but it would help to know where Amanda was not being truthful- this I find interesting! don’t mind me.. ]
…Sir, you know it’s absolutely ridiculous. Joe couldn’t kill anybody.
Billy: Well, Estoccia is a very dangerous place….
…We don’t even know for sure what’s hap—
Amanda: No Sir. Makes no difference.
(Amanda speaks forcefully here)
[anyone else find this a little curious? I mean.. it could be a warzone in Estoccia, Joe could have fought back in self-defence..but nooo Amanda knows Joe would never fight back or defend himself.. What do you all make of this??
hmm kinda interesting when you compare that view of Joe to what Amanda knows of Lee..
I’m not certain of what to make of it (lol like most things in this ep as I write!) – does this tell us something about how Amanda views Joe?.. it may.. maybe Amanda’s view of Joe is a little umm.. idealised? unrealistic? Hmm.. looking forward to hearing what you all make of this! ]
Billy: Well, it’s not his habit to pick up in the middle of the night and disappear is it?
[Billy chooses his words carefully here.. but this is a fascinating way of making his point – This question does three things – it asks if Joe up and left her suddenly in the past (whooo like when they separated), it asks about Joe’s character.. and if Joe’s character is as saintly as Amanda thinks – it says that this then is not a normal situation where Joe is acting normally and doing normal things – so something is not right here!]
Amanda: No sir.
I think Billy has made his point.. Amanda doesn’t have an argument for it.. but she doesn’t have to acknowledge it either..
Wise Billy moves on.
Does this remind anyone else of just a few episodes ago? Remember Agnes??: “No.. the man you’re describing couldn’t possibly be my Nicky!” oh dear!!
Amanda is the same here.. this is not the Joe she knows..
Billy: Well. We’ve thrown out all the nets for him, along with the CIA, FBI, Security Taskforce. We’ll do everything we can to get to the truth.
[Billy really means ‘we’ll do everything we can’ – even if it might mean ‘using Amanda’. Ha! Even if he cares about her.. In his view, it’s okay to do whatever it takes – (IMHO of course). He cares about Amanda.. but Amanda knows this comes with the territory, and the agency must come first.. this is the attitude of virtually everyone at the agency – so I don’t find it heartless or anything.. it’s just (to me) very different to the way Lee and Amanda operate with each other.
Billy’s approach here is fascinating.. he doesn’t ask Amanda if she has spoken with Joe or if she knows where Joe is directly. Seems he’s left that to Lee maybe?? – maybe because he senses Lee and Amanda share a special closeness.. maybe Billy is not so unwise in giving Lee the job as I first wondered.. lots of maybes from me in this ep! haaa!]
Amanda: Yes sir. Does Lee know?
[wow.. what do you make of this guys?!
I wonder if there is a little of Amanda not wanting to tell Lee about it.. or have to discuss Joe with Lee.. and if so.. why?!!! I think she’s happy to have Lee’s help – but maybe she didn’t want to have to break the news to him.. maybe?! hmmm.. what a fascinating episode! Don’t forget I haven’t seen this ep all the way through- or for a very long time! I am playing with ideas as I go – hope this is okay!!! ‘maybe?!’ 😉 ]
Billy: I already have him on special assignment…
…Very high level.
From Amanda’s immediate reaction to this news, I’m thinking she is really touched at the care that has been given to this – that Lee is on special assignment, and that it is considered high level.
Amanda: Yes sir. Thank you.
I think this is not just politeness here.. Amanda really means thank you. Thanks that the agency will do what they can to get to the bottom of things..
but.. there is also a tension here – because Amanda refuses to believe Joe could shoot anyone ever, at any time.. And the agency thinks at this point that anything is possible. I guess for Amanda knowing Lee is on the case is very reassuring.. Because she trusts him completely- awhhh..
This scene of Amanda defending a man to Billy is reminiscent of the scene in Burn Out – where Amanda went to Billy to defend Lee’s character. Did anyone else see this?
Amanda: Sir, I’d just like to say one thing. Umm.. even though Lee’s going through a pretty rough time, I think we should all remember that he’s really a, a very, well, a dedicated, and a caring and well.. a good person.
It’s fascinating (hey isn’t everything in this ep?!) to see Amanda now taking on this role of defender for Joe – her ex-husband and the father of her two children. I think this tells us that Amanda holds Joe very highly as a man of good character – regardless of whatever happened in her marriage. Does this mean Joe is a good man? lol.. or.. does it mean Amanda refuses to see him as anything but?
Even if he is a good guy – Joe can’t be perfect.
We saw (IMHO) Amanda start out with a big crush on Lee.. an idealised version of him.. and over time she has gotten to know and love and accept Lee completely – even though he is not perfect.. Did Amanda do the same with Joe?!! Or.. was this a first love and idealised? I think all these questions are raised at this point.. can anyone answer them so far?
I’ll be looking to have these questions answered as we continue to walk through this episode, but I’m tending toward thinking this is the case – Amanda idealised Joe and her first love.. (though how the divorce fits in here I don’t know yet!) and with Lee – she has a much more realistic relationship..
If love is unconditional and fully accepting, I’d argue her love with Lee ,even at this point, is more real that what she shared (shares?!) with Joe – IF she had idealised Joe..
Interesting to me how Amanda stonewalls Billy here.. and gives away nothing to him. Amanda’s loyalty is to Joe and her family – not the agency.. Just like in Burn Out how Amanda put Lee ahead of her own professional reputation (IMHO). And just like I was saying I thought Lee was with Amanda – back when Billy told Lee to ‘use her’?!
So what does this all mean? At this stage I’m not sure.. but I just know it fascinates me to have Amanda once again defending to Billy the character of a man who she knows and cares about.. I guess it could at least tell us that Amanda is very loyal and steadfast to those close to her. Maybe it is nothing more than that.. but it does make me a little uneasy that she is sooo steadfast about Joe – eek.. makes me worry that at this point maybe she is not over Joe? Ohhh I hope we’ve figured this out by the end of this episode! (I suspect together we will have ) so my torture will be of short duration!
okay guys.. I’ve rambled on enough – whoa.. this is a long one! so much going on here!! I can’t wait to hear what you all make of this scene.. do tell!! bye!
As I watch this episode throughout I think Amanda idealizes Joe. Aside from seeing them both as good men, she also seems to see Joe very differently than she does Lee. I think maybe in part because she is still afraid of her feelings for Lee, and sees Joe as safer. Not that rational, but that’s how it strikes me. As for not being over Joe, she probably isn’t completely. I don’t think she is still in love with him, but I think the break up of a family is always devastating and she probably never got any real closure since Joe was never there. I am sure it is all still painful and sensitive. One thing I think we have to remember is that no matter what Joe will always be the father of Amanda’s children. She has probably become use to idealizing him through the years in order to paint a good picture for their kids.
I think Mr. Prescott was the one who told Amanda Joe was wanted for murder. It looked to me like Prescott initiated the meeting with Amanda, and he told her Joe was in trouble before she said anything about — well, about anything. When the scene cuts away after he said Joe was in big trouble, I think there was more conversation after that, so that Amanda can honestly say to Billy that she heard all about it from Prescott. I think we can give credit to Amanda’s judgement about Joe’s character; she does, after all, know him better than anyone involved on the case. We’ve seen Amanda make snap judgements about a person before, and sometimes show misplaced loyalty, but in this case I’d take her opinion over that of the Agency, because she really does know Joe and they don’t.
I also think that Amanda doesn’t have any intention of hiding the fact that Joe talked to her, or of shielding him from being found, or “covering” for him to the Agency. She’s not going to blab unnecessarily, but she does want to help him, right? When she wanted to help Lee in SBTB, she had to start by finding him. I’m sure Amanda knows that the Agency is her best resource for finding Joe, and I wouldn’t be surprised if she tells Lee about Joe’s phone call. I’ll have to keep my eyes open and see if there’s any evidence she did. She trusts Lee, even more than Billy, (not a bad call, judging from Billy’s comment to “use her” and Lee’s reluctance) and I bet she’s going to try to get his help on this one, even if it hadn’t already been Agency business. Of course she’s not going to tell Prescott about Joe’s call — who is he, anyway? Does he even work for the government? Well, even if EAO is a government agency, Prescott doesn’t have the authority to be really asking her questions.
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I’m going to comment here before I read all the others’ comments, so if something is repeated, please bear with me. 🙂
I believe that whatever happened with Amanda and Joe, she has always presented him as a good man to her boys. This is simply her nature, as we’ve seen before – she tends to think well of people until they give her a reason not to do so. As a result, she continues to think well of Joe. Anytime someone is gone for a long period of time, we tend to forget about how they change – probably because we change so slowly ourselves. She remembers the Joe who left. When she mentions her divorce in TFT, she doesn’t appear bitter or angry, so I always assumed it was amicable. When she mentions that she never took alimony, I assumed it was because she felt asking for child support to be sufficient; that maybe Joe’s job wasn’t one that paid a lot, and she wanted to be fair. So, sticking up for Joe makes sense from this perspective. I know that I was curious about Joe at this point when I first saw this episode. I was prepared for him to be a completely changed man or to see him as a soft, gentle man. (With his implied regret in the last scene, I really expected a thoughtful man, but I was prepared for anything.)
I haven’t watched this episode in a long time, so I’m trying to see it freshly, too. I’m resisting pulling out the DVD’s. I can wait, I can wait. 🙂
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I think Amanda may have looked for Lee when she got to the Agency – or perhaps Mrs. Marsden told Amanda that Billy wanted to see her straightaway and so she headed there instead of up to the Q-Bureau to look for Lee. So I don’t necessarily think it means anything. I think Amanda’s initial surprise with Billy is that the incident involving Joe has caught the attention of the Agency – this sort of confirms her fears and ratchets things up a notch. Prescott told her Joe is accused of being a killer and now the Agency is involved? Uh oh. Not good. She knows enough about the Agency to know that it is probably not a good thing.
I think I like how Amanda defends Joe here. Although I think she may be a little naïve in her thinking that couldn’t have changed in the last few years after having lived in Estoccia – and not necessarily for the better. I think she can’t think that – he is the father of her children – so I guess that is why I like how she defends him. She feels like she knew his core well enough to believe that he is incapable of murder. Interesting – especially when I think of the contrast to Joe/Lee.
I find Amanda’s reaction to Lee being on the case a bit revealing – or maybe I am seeing things. I thing she is trying not to show how happy she is that Lee is on the case – a special assignment nonetheless. Even though the Agency’s attention is not a good thing, Lee’s attention is – in more ways than one.
I wonder if Amanda sees her divorce as major failure in her life, and as a result, she doesn’t want to dwell on it or talk about it to anyone. It is too painful. She is a very practical woman and so she goes about her life focusing on the practicalities most of the time. To have Billy have to ask her this one question about Joe leaving in the middle of the night has got to be hard. If I were in her shoes, I think I’d be quite nervous and my stomach would be in knots. No wonder she’s so happy to have Lee on the case. She knows she can trust him and he has a way of making her feel safe and finding that silver lining.
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I figure Billy purposefully did not ask Amanda directly if Joe contacted her. His way of protecting her from official interrogation and not put her in a position where she had to lie. 🙂 (I love Billy, BTW)
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Indeed.. after his ‘use her’ this scene put Billy back in my good books 🙂
He was quite gentle with Amanda here..
Good call Cindy!
KJ does an amazing job with these emotional undercurrents too.We have seen Amanda shaken emotional before, but not at so many levels and with so many personally emotional connections.As often as I have called Lee compartmentalized, I see Amanda rather compartmentalized as well when it comes to her past and her present. And here the two are threatening to collide.
The way she pauses and diverts her eyes, the way she switches from talking about Joe to ask if Lee knows almost without taking a breath are real tells here. She is a bundle of nerves. And it appears that when Amanda gets like that at this level she clams up. She can be a rambler when a situation is over her head, but this one involves love and failure and potential harm to so many things she counts on and hopes for. And here it is as if to deal with these things she numbs her emotional loose ends. And maybe when she gets like that she focuses on the one thing she feels she knows beyond a shadow of a doubt. When she is in a dangerous situation with Lee she focuses on the fact that Lee will get them out of it. Here she focuses on what she knows of Joe’s character. He is not a killer. And I think if there was one thing that she picked up from that phone conversation with Joe it was that he is very much as she knows him to be.
I agree Amanda’s loyalty and steadfast belief in a person that she has chose to trust is a strength. But it is a bit odd when it comes to an ex husband who left her with two children. I wish we could unpack what happened between them. Somehow I suspect that there is deep personal hurt in there for Amanda, and sometimes that is even harder to access healing for if she also has a deep respect for the character of the person who caused the hurt. It is so much easier if you can get good and mad at a person. I think Amanda must have just put the rubber to the road and moved forward. And now the two, the past (which I think I might be concluding isn’t completely resolved) and the future (which isn’t completely articulated) are coming crashing together in a very dangerous and high level way. It is going to take a lot of patience and respect for the three of them (Amanda, Lee and Joe) to get through this without huge fallout, or at least that is usually how people work these things through. We shall see what happens.
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Hey there – I think I wrote a sort of similar thing in my comment? Your second paragraph – or maybe I’m just thinking wishfully? LOL.
And I agree about Amanda clamming up when the emotions are just too much – reminds me of the car scene in SOS when Amanda completely clams up.
I agree with Morley and Kiwismh about Amanda possibly being so preoccupied with what’s going on that she doesn’t notice that she’s being followed. This is a personal situation for her and her mind is probably working overtime trying to figure things out. Also, at this point she doesn’t yet know that this has been taken on as an Agency case so she may not be in agent mode.
Amanda’s insistence on Joe’s innocence and refusal to believe otherwise is very interesting indeed. It’s like when you’re away from a difficult situation or person you may have forgotten what that real situation or person was like and you build it up in your mind as something else completely different or that it wasn’t as bad as you first thought. I agree that Amanda may have idealized Joe and how things ended between them.
But if you also look back at Amanda’s history with the Agency, there have been times when she was very trusting and only seeing the good in people. Remember her insistence that Conrad couldn’t be the Mongoose because it was unlike him and out of character. In Savior she was very trusting and felt foolish when she discovered that she had been used. But Lee helped her see the upside of what she was doing and how she was helping him as a friend. I think that Amanda’s faith, loyalty and trust in people, especially her friends and loved ones is actually one of her strengths. She doesn’t just write people off and I think that those she has been loyal to have made sure to do things to reinforce that loyalty, faith and trust. It has certainly caused Lee change how he handles some of the Agency’s standard operation procedures, most especially when it comes to Amanda.
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I completely agree with your take on Amanda’s loyalty and trust, Valerie. We’ve seen time and again that she chooses to see the good in people an forgive them a few faults. It’s one of my favorite things about here character. I’ll go a step further and say that I think this is so iny’sgrained in her character that it would be difficult for her to NOT view a person this way. Therefore I don’t have an issue with how she defends Joe here.
I did appreciate Billy’s gentle but authoritative way of reminding Amanda that Joe was already behaving out of character so her argument that Joe could not do something because it was out of character was based on personal emotion rather than agent reasoning. However, another of Amanda’s strengths is being able to combine the two, right?
Interesting that Amanda holds her tongue so well with Mr. Preston and now with BIlly. No more nervous rambling. “So much has changed.”
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do I have an issue with how Amanda defends Joe? Hmm.. My instinct is to say no- but I did find her inability to conceive that Joe could ever be in the situation of killing someone (not even in a war zone in self defence) a little too much.. but at the same time – I understand and appreciate her defence of Joe though.
Defending Joe? yep that’s Amanda.. unwilling to even contemplate he could have been in a war zone defending himself and not in a normal situation? I find that a bit curious..
but don’t mind me!
Loved your observation about no more nervous rambling Raffie – good call!!!
Really enjoyed your thoughts here Valerie – all sounds great to me!
I agree, Valerie, that Amanda’s faith, loyalty, and trust in people is a strength. But I also think that she may be too quick in giving some people her faith, loyalty, and trust. It worked in the case of Lee, but in so many other cases it got her into trouble or even in the case of Conrad wasn’t fully deserved. He was working for the Mongoose after all even if he wasn’t the Mongoose. So I think Amanda is learning to be slower to offer her faith, etc. and Lee is learning to be willing to give it maybe? I think they are both learning. I think it is important for Amanda to be more cautious with this in Lee and Billy’s eyes – it shows her professional growth.
Okay, my usual shallow self wants to comment on Amanda’s high waisted pants which I like so much! It shows off her itty bitty waist (yep, jealous here). I also like her defense of Joe. Even if it may be a bit naive or defensive, it shows Amanda’s warm heart and fierce protection of those people she values. Jule runs back down her rabbit hole in blue fuzzy robe clutching a fist full of chocolates
Yay!!!! I love it when Jule makes a comment in her fuzzy bathrobe and then runs away with her chocolates!!!! Yay!!!
Ha hah Morley! Come join me! I have tea, wine and hot chocolate just to cover all bases and warm slippers for all you snow bunnies 🙂 You do your wonderful analysis and I’ll feed y’all pops back down the rabbit hole will more goodies in tow
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Ahhhh, that all sounds sooo good, Jule! It’s been a while since I’ve been down the rabbit hole, but would love to join in too – especially for this ep!
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Too early in the day for chocolate and dressing gown here, but your comments on Amanda’s waist reminds me that I was noticing her hand positions – which look relatively relaxed in this scene – and how they contrast with how she holds her shoulders – which look very tense. It’s almost like she’s trying to keep her hands and arms relaxed (leaning against the door, one hand in pocket, a bit nonchalant), but her shoulders betray her.
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Hey Learjet.. you around?? It’s late enough on the east coast of Oz for bathrobes and chocolate! 🙂
How can Amanda’s shoulders betray her when her shoulder pads are sooo flippin massive? 😉
Same here, Jule — another nice 80’s remembrance and one reflected in my clothes closet even in 2015!
Yes as much as I am uncomfortable with Amanda defending Joe- and the questions it raises – you are spot on Jule with your point about Amanda being protective of those she cares about.. it is one of her best qualities! (I just want some reassurance that it’s definitely over with Joe at this point!!! and I am thinking maybe Lee does too 😉
First of all, I find it very hard to comment on these opening scenes because I’m not sure what I know from ahead, and what I know from these scenes and previous episodes. My responses are strongly affected by knowing things ahead. I’ll try to keep this in check.
I find Amanda’s massive loyalty to Joe a bit hard to fathom (and unpalatable). Yes, he is the father of her childen and they (?) had an amicable divorce, but they are divorced for a reason (which will become apparent). She almost seems too loyal and fond of him. I like your ideas about her “idealising” Joe, and seeing Lee more realisticly, iwsod – it helps me swallow this. And how many of us haven’t looked back on past boyfriends who seem so wonderful at a distance of many years, when we have to deal with ex-husbands who’ve behaved appallingly, or present husbands who can be a bit of a trial at times…!
I think Amanda is reassured by Lee being “on the case” purely because she trusts him as a professional who knows his job and will do it well. I don’t think the growing personal aspect of their relationship is part of this at all. Can’t say more on this at this stage of the episode.
Oh yes Learjet, I totally understand it is not easy to stick with the story when you know the episode so well – hang in there! I hope that this method of madness produces a few new or different insights for you that make the restraint all worth it! 🙂
but thank you for being thoughtful and not jumping ahead 🙂
Oh cool thanks Learjet.. I’m still playing around with ideas and exploring.. glad to hear you found the idea of Amanda idealising Joe interesting..
Yes Amanda trusts Lee as a person.. but she also knows he is ‘one of the top agents’ 😉 – even if he did get tied up and put in a closet 😉
I want to watch this scene before I comment. There are so many brilliant nuances in the way the actors did this episode. I really have grown to respect that. I don’t know when I will get a chance to watch it, but it must become a priority 😉
I do think, however, that she wasn’t noticing the car due to her preoccupation with what is going on with Joe and even how it will affect her and Lee.
I am impressed by the way Amanda holds so much close to her chest, though. I am not sure what to make of it though. She almost reminds f one f those Jane Austin heroines that we all yell at when we watch, you know the one who is so patient while everything whirls on about her… Elinor Dashwood maybe?
Miss Dashwood? oh how fabulous!! 🙂
Miss Dashwood, like Amanda was also very committed to her values..
whooo Morley is doing some research? whoo hooo!!! look forward to hearing your thoughts!
I think that Amanda is also protecting her family. If the agency knew that Joe had called her, they would probably tap her phones, surround her house, and maybe even follow her. She doesn’t want that invasion on her families life. She is glad that Lee has the assignment so that she can help find Joe and help clear his name.
As much as she defends Joe and what he could never do, does she think about how much she has changed and how she is doing things that Joe would never think that she would do. It is true that Amanda really knows people, but Joe could have changed in the time that he has been away, just as she has changed.
I like the fact that Amanda doesn’t really give away just how much she knows or that Joe has contacted her. I think this fits well with how good she is at being an “agent” now. She gets Billy to reveal who knows and where the Agency is at with this situation but keeps most of her cards close to her chest. This is a very personal, not to mention totally unexpected and potentially very stressful situation that has arisen for her, and she is dealing with it in a very professional and much calmer manner than would have been the case in S1 or 2.
Having said that, she is very affected by the situation and a little of this does show, but is doing a good job of not revealing how deeply she is affected at this stage. Therefore, I think she maybe doesn’t notice the car following her at the outset as she is full concentrate as she is walking to IFF on what could possibly be going on with Joe and preparing herself to face Billy and possibly Lee. In FTF she cared a great deal about Bart and Colleen’s situation but the scenario wasn’t really personal to her like this one, so she could be more detached and therefore able to concentrate her mind fully on her professional skills – like noticing a vehicle.
I get from this scene that she is not prepared to throw Joe under the bus without irrefutable evidence of wrong-doing. She knows it would be completely out of character for the Joe she knew (knows?) to do what he is accused of but I also think she is using her agency acquired skills to keep an open mind and find out as much as she can before revealing, if she has to, that Joe has contacted her. At this point though Amanda must be thinking it is more likely than not that Joe isn’t guilty and she wants to be able to help clear his name.
I also see in this scene Amanda’s very evident relief at having Lee on board (I assume “I already have him on special assignment… very high level” is Agency code for I’ve already put him on this case 😉 ).
I wonder how she is feeling about having her past and present lives intersecting. She seems to have trust and confidence in Lee that he – they – their current relationship – won’t be affected. Or maybe she’s both relieved and a little anxious about how this will all play out. Primarily now I think she is worried about Joe and her priority is to help clear his name. She knows that whatever uncertainty or anxiety she might be feeling about this intersection of old and new will have to stay in the background for now.
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At some point I’m going to figure out how to use the like button, but for now I will just tell you, Kiwismh, that I like your comments and agree with so much of what you’ve said.
I enjoyed reading your insights here.. Yep I agree Amanda is developing as an agent – and covering for Joe fits.
Yeah okay, I can get on board with your explanation for Amanda not noticing the car following her.. good call!
Yes I’m fascinated to see what Amanda does with this whole situation! Worlds colliding? indeed!!
I wonder if it will reveal to Amanda just how far she has come?? 🙂 she may be very happy with the result of her work with the agency – and her relationship with Lee 🙂
Go back to Joey shmoey? meh.. 😉