7/14 Season Two, Episode 22: Murder Between Friends-Scarecrow and Mrs King

We join Amanda on her err ‘business’ dinner with Byron.. yeeeeaaaah.. Byron lives in a lovely brownstone.. figures.. I wonder if that is the street we saw so much of in Life of the party and Relative Situation. I’m not going to spend time looking if anyone else would like to..
2.22 MBF.avi_001093259Oh boy! Check out this little love trap we have going on here!!! Their dinner is lit only by candlelight. In front of a fire place?? This is seduction central! The only thing missing is a frozen cake right Lee? Winking smile Anyway, I bet Bryon spent more on the champagne than Lee.. What am I saying???!!!! What am I nuts?? focus Iwsod!
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The room is quite dark, they are alone and the mood is intimate and congenial.
Amanda: It’s been a really lovely evening Byron.
Amanda sounds relaxed and like she did indeed have a lovely dinner.
Byron: well the night is still young Amanda. Would you like some more coffee and dessert?
[‘more’ coffee and dessert?? LOL.. Byron doesn’t want this evening to come to an end! He’s super keen and attentive.. Just IMHO a completely inappropriate way to behave towards your employee (especially your ‘executive assistant’) on their first day on the job! ugh! ]
Amanda: Oh no, no I couldn’t really. Thank you. Ohh ahhh.. (Amanda goes to say something but stops herself..she nervously laughs)
oh never mind.
Byron: no go ahead, say it!

2
[Byron sounds open and if it wasn’t her first night working for him, I’d say he sounded like a good guy! LOL!]
Amanda: well I was just going to say, you invited me over to talk about business, and we’ve talked about everything in the world but business.
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[yeah funny that! Winking smile At this Byron lowers his head and laughs.. ah yeah.. busted Byron Winking smile hmmm I could even suggest Byron appears a little bashful here-no?] …Not that I haven’t had a good time –I’ve had a wonderful time, but I … just .. thought.. that .. maybe.. we.. should……
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I can’t wait to hear everyone’s ideas on this!!! I think Amanda, while finding Byron attractive, is a little confused and wanting some clarification. Can’t say I blame her! Interesting also to note she confirms she had a good time, no – a wonderful time!
Byron: talk about business?
Amanda: yeah.
Byron
rubs his hands together: Okay, what would you like to know?
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[wha??  Byron is the one who wanted the ‘business’ dinner.. so why is he asking her what she wants to know? He’s the one who had things he wanted to discuss! cha right..]
Amanda: well, Umm there are a lot of security companies in Washington, but yours is the most successful one…
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…And I- .. well, why is that?
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Byron: Good question…2.22 MBF.avi_001136536
…Well, let’s see. Ah, first of all, I install back up 2.22 MBF.avi_001148314security systems for all security systems. But what makes mine really different is that I am the only one 2.22 MBF.avi_001149315that knows the access codes. And they’re stored right up here
Amanda.
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Amanda: ahhh so the other people put theirs on computers and you can tap into those.
2.22 MBF.avi_001157323Byron pointing again to his head:
but this one you can’t tap into! 2.22 MBF.avi_001158324
[funny, I think I can tap into it and figure out what this ‘business’ dinner is for! Winking smile ]
Amanda: right. Haa haaa..
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Byron: it’s too confusing! [I suspect Lee’s is even more confusing Winking smile ]
2.22 MBF.avi_001161327Byron: so tell me, how do you like working for me so far?  [working for Byron, being seduced by Byron.. it’s all a little bit too mixed up for my liking.. a bit icky!] Amanda can’t exactly say it stinks can she?!
2.22 MBF.avi_001163329Amanda: Oh! Well I like it very much, but I’ve only been doing it for a day.
2.22 MBF.avi_001165331Byron: well it only gets better from here on out.
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Byron: Look,..
(again he 2.22 MBF.avi_001173340rubs his hands together)
…Amanda, I like you. I like you a lot…
[IMHO if there is one moment where Amanda feels pressured by Byron and feels concern over whether Byron is going to be a problem- I think this moment is it….
Though, for me? I had an issue right from when he started listening in on Amanda and Lee’s conversation Winking smile ]
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2.22 MBF.avi_001176343…I’ve liked you from the first moment I laid eyes on you…

[I think Amanda likes Byron..but is wondering where he is headed here..]
2.22 MBF.avi_0011793462.22 MBF.avi_001180580but, I’m not a pushy kinda guy… [Could have fooled 2.22 MBF.avi_001185352me! Okay maybe he is promising not to be a pushy guy err from now on! 😉 ]
Now I hired you for the position because you were the best person for that position. Aaaand if 2.22 MBF.avi_001189389anything else happens between us? That’s just icing on the cake… 2.22 MBF.avi_001190390(Amanda seems to really like hearing this-her slight concern dealt with IMHO!)
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I just like it to go with the flow. [I think he’s being swept away by the flow Winking smile ] …Okay?
2.22 MBF.avi_0011945942.22 MBF.avi_001194794Amanda nods:
thank you.
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Byron: Good!
2.22 MBF.avi_001197364They both quietly take another sip of their coffee.
2.22 MBF.avi_001201368I’ll give it to Byron, he predicts or detects  Amanda could be concerned about this situation and any expectations he may have, and he quickly moves to quell those concerns and reassure her.
In my book, he never should have had to make those reassurances – dinner on her first day? dumb idea..the situation is too much for me!
But!!.. I see the writers weren’t playing it that way and we hear ad nauseam what a great guy Byron is! Winking smile
Amanda seems to be enjoying Byron’s attention.. she isn’t looking uncomfortable- She is her demure, modest self.. a classy lady.. I’m looking forward to hearing your thoughts!!!! but to me, she seems to be open to Byron’s advances in the future (especially since he is saying he won’t pressure her, she seems very reassured and grateful for this reassurance)… she is certainly toying with the idea,  because she is attracted to Byron.

Also, Byron has done something that at this point in the story Lee is simply unable to do – Byron has been up front with her about his attraction, his interest in her. He has made it clear what he would like their relationship to be in future if she is open to it – a clear definition! wow!! And he has reassured her there is no pressure for her to acquiesce. Whether I like Byron and agree with his dinner invite or not.. I’ll give it to Byron – this is a gutsy thing to do.. and completely puts Amanda at ease. I think it’s an important insight here into Amanda- Amanda finds this an attractive quality. 

So it’s interesting to compare this open interest of Byron’s with her relationship with Lee.. From the start, Amanda hasn’t know what their relationship will be according to Lee on any given day. Are they friends? Not friends? business? personal? are they work partners? or not?? or just sort of partners? and after all the topsy-turvy happenings of Burn Out? Byron’s direct earnestness could be quite a relief to Amanda. I think with Byron- what you see is what you get. I think the writers were going for this contrast.. this is just my opinion though..

It is clear Amanda knows who Lee is and is certain of that  – but the status of their relationship?? how it is defined?? It is changing since they first met! Amanda has been a saint to deal with Lee up to this point IMHO! …and I think she is beginning to find this more confusing – the more attentive and lovely that begins to Lee become!  I think Amanda is looking for some certainty/clarity before she begins to consider giving someone her heart and pursuing a serious relationship. She wants to know it is something steadfast that she can count on.. For me, right now Lee is so far removed from what she is looking for and what she needs here – It confirms for me Lee is not yet ready for love with Amanda. Amanda knows it and isn’t looking for love with Lee. [Well not romantic love anyway! Winking smile ]

Whether I like it or not (yuck!) at this point, Amanda’s considering pursuing a romantic relationship with Byron- it’s an option! .. I’m not sure if any of Amanda’s behaviour here is a reaction to Lee- what do you think? do tell!!!
Though I do wonder if Amanda is trying to move on emotionally from the agency.. and make a new future for herself. She’s open to it. What do you all think??

What does this say about Amanda and Lee? Anyone like to share their thoughts? Can’t wait to hear from you! I’m sure there will be varying views on all this.. probably some quite divergent views! All good!! Do tell!! Of course, if you agree – do tell also!! 😉 If you don’t know? hey – why not tell us about it too! Smile  I’ll be interested to hear what anyone says and I’ll try my best to keep an open mind here! bye for now!

70 responses to “7/14 Season Two, Episode 22: Murder Between Friends-Scarecrow and Mrs King

  1. Personally, I think Amanda brought up business as an attempt to put the brakes on the situation a little bit. I don’t see her being as in to Byron as some people do at this point. I think she is thoroughly enjoying having a man’s interest and attention but is probably worried it is moving a little too fast and worried about him pressuring her in to something because he is her boss. I don’t think Amanda had made up her mind about wether she wanted something serious with Byron, but I do agree she was keeping the option open, and I would go as far as to say if things had happened the way they did Amanda would have started dating him. I think he is a huge contrast to Lee, and I think Amanda enjoys having a man pursue her rather than always being the one who has to hang in there and prove that he needs her. Even after burn out Lee still can’t come out and say it. I think deep down Amanda knows she wants to be with Lee but she is not going to pursue him. She’ s not the type to romantically pursue a man and that would scare Lee off big time. He needs to feel he is in control. I agree with Kiwismh Amanda know she has feelings for Lee but has the maturity to know she can’t make him return those feelings if he is just not ready, and she isn’t willing to just wait around for him like some love struck teenage girl. Good for her.

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  2. Oh dearie…after watching this scene, Amanda looks like she is really enjoying herself with Jordan. He is so nice, gentle and easy going. Cute too – especially when he smiles. Is it just me or does he remind anyone else of Mitt Romney? I haven’t seen this episode in a while nor have I paid that much attention to it, but on close inspection Amanda seems very at ease here with Jordan. She is really enjoying herself. She is not acting goofy like she sometimes does around the Agency folks. I wonder if it’s because of how Jordan is treating her. He seems more ‘normal’ than the Lees and Francines of the world and much less critical. And she really comes across as competent and does ask a very good question to Jordan.

    In my comments on the last post I know I wrote that Byron was setting off my spidey sense and came across as icky, but here in this scene he manages to pull if off, I think. I’m not getting as much of an ick factor here as I was before. Maybe it’s the candles and the music ;). Maybe it’s his smile, I don’t know. He just really seems like a nice man and NOT the playboy type. Must be a breath of fresh air for Amanda 😆 😆 😆 This is not a man that Amanda needs to nurture or take care of. He is the type that will take care of her. With Jordan she’s primarily the taker, but with Lee she’s primarily the giver (at this stage of the relationship). Gosh, what a contrast between the two men. It hadn’t really entered my thought process until now even though I know just about everyone has been doing that for most of this episode.

    I do think Amanda is definitely open to Byron’s advances. I think if she weren’t she would have made a funny face or asked a question about having dinner with him at his house on her first day of work. He does put her at ease, like you say, iwsod and the insight you share – Amanda finds this an attractive quality – seems to really be right. I’m a logical thinking person and don’t rely on feelings too much, but it just feels right to say that about Amanda. There really is nothing in her life where she is at ease. Well, maybe at night in her bubble bath or while she’s doing her dishes (you go, Morley!!). But her home life is stressful as a single parent, her job is very stressful even though she completely trusts Lee and has total faith in him to save her . No wonder she seems to really be enjoying her evening – Byron is making it very nice and easy to! The more I think about it, I don’t know how she wouldn’t be attracted to Mr. nice, easy, even keel Jordan. And with double pay no less!

    Yes, I agree with this:

    …Lee is so far removed from what she is looking for and what she needs…Amanda…isn’t looking for love with Lee. [Well not romantic love anyway!;)]

    Now, having said all that, I really think she is just enjoying herself and enjoying this nice treatment by Jordan. I don’t think she is necessarily falling for him, but I do think she likes what she’s seen and heard so far and is open to it if something should develop. I don’t know that she is hoping it develops or not. I really think she is just enjoying it right now for what it is.

    Iwsod, I think there is no doubt that Jordan buys the expensive champagne 😆

    Hahaha, iwsod! Are you all tapped out after this scene??? Nice pilfer of the TFOEmily line!

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    • pilfer? moi??? 😉

      Lovely to hear your thoughts BJo!

      Mitt Romney?? Talk about a bucket of cold water! 😉

      Oh thanks for sharing that you enjoyed that bit about what Amanda finds an attractive quality – I found that to be a very interesting insight into Amanda’s workings – and as we know at times she can be very difficult to read! so at least her interactions with Byron give us an insight into Amanda we wouldn’t otherwise get if she just hug out with Lee all the time haa! 🙂

      Yeah I agree with you and Valerie – Amanda is just enjoying, taking it in her stride and waiting to see where ‘the flow’ takes her 😉 – we can relax though, we know eventually it leads her back to Lee! 🙂

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  3. Lee seems to know Byron, and apparently has a favorable view of him. I wonder whether Lee suspects from the outset (based on the interaction between Byron and Amanda at the Agency) that Byron is interested in more than a professional relationship with Amanda. And if so, whether he wonders if she’ll be receptive to that potential? Further, does Lee recognize that Byron is a different kind of “threat” than the players he is accustomed to warning Amanda against? Might Lee even accept that Byron would be a good match for Amanda – better suited to her than himself, perhaps?

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  4. These are my thoughts, YMprobablyWV (my apologies if others have already said this):

    I don’t think Amanda’s completely open to the idea of a relationship with Byron right now. I think she’s excited about the new job (not just for the money but for the learning and challenges–the opportunity it represents), but still missing the Agency and all it entails. I think that she’s in a period of mourning of sorts… for the friendships that she can see might not continue outside of work (one in particular)… and the seeming loss of what-might-have-been.

    After Byron compliments Amanda on the strobe idea and asks her to dinner and she accepts, she rushes to sit down in the car, removing herself from Byron’s immediate vicinity. After dinner, she makes sure to pull things back to talk of business… after an uneasy-sounding Amandaramble–I really think she’d prefer to keep things on a business level for now… but doesn’t want to upset the new boss. She thinks that Byron is a good guy–Billy said as much in the Bullpen, and he’s been respectful/gentlemanly/charming in her presence–but he’s been coming on very fast. I think she’s flattered by his attention, but even though he tries to reassure her at the end of dinner, and she’s smiling happily (?) at his words (“… I like you a lot…”, “… icing on the cake…”) I think she’s still hesitant. Flattered, definitely flattered, but not open.

    To go back to the analogies, I think that resigning from the Agency set off a minor earthquake, of sorts, in Amanda’s Tupperware cupboard, and when she went to neatly realign the slightly jostled Tupperware stacks, noticed that one of them looked a wee bit convex and needed burping… so she gently lifted the very corner and burped the container and put it neatly back in place–but it was enough to make her think a little bit…

    Just my two cents… shrug

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    • I suppose that a lot of things that happen at this stage are revelations for both Lee and Amanda about what they mean to each other. I guess what is telling is what they do with those revelations. To continue the Tupperware metaphor, they still haven’t taken the containers off of the shelf and delved into their contents. So far the adjust the order of their placement, or as you say gently lift the corner of a lid and then reclose it and put it in its place on the shelf and close the door. I do think that even though they are closing the door, the contents of that closet may be on their mind. Kind of like me with my broom closet. I know it needs attending to, because so much of its contents is out of place, but I can still easily say it is a job for another day.

      Another two cents

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    • burp!! 😆 KC!!

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  5. I like that Byron is finally upfront with Amanda BUT the whole job offer seems a way to ingratiate himself with Amanda and for some reason that really doesn’t sit well with me. The job feels a bit too much of a ploy I suppose, much like this “business” dinner. I am glad Amanda in her own way makes him clarify his intentions (gee how old fashioned do. I sound?!).
    I definitely see Amanda as open to his intentions but definitely no where near rushing towards them. I don’t blame her, Lee has led her a merry dance since TFT as to the status of their relationship. If I was Amanda I certainly at this point would not be putting my life on hold for Lee. I could actually see Amanda having a relationship with Byron (has things not been cut short) but at a much slower speed than he is currently running at!

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  6. When I first saw this episode, I was actually glad for Amanda that here was a guy who liked her immediately and let her know. I was actually frustrated that Lee was taking so long to admit how much he cared for her. So, I liked Byron (and still do). Sometimes what we like has to be taken away in order for us to view it in a “real” light. Yes, Lee has had to face difficult times with Amanda, but he’s never really lost her presence. (Which is why I think he would have sought her out after this case was over.)

    Both Amanda and Lee realize that they are there for each other at this point. They look forward to the day-to-day together, but they don’t talk about it. I think she finds Byron to be a breath of fresh air for that reason. She’s open, but she also wants to get to know Byron better before she becomes too involved. He senses that and is willing to give that to her. I think Byron is a little comfortable, like Dean, and a little exciting, like Lee. She responds because she wants a change from the roller coaster relationship with Lee, and because Byron is really trying to meet her where she is.

    I understand why Byron’s actions make so many people uncomfortable today, but I do like the fact that he chose to find out more about her before he approached her about the job. I can’t explain this really well without it sounding wrong – but I do think he was attracted to Amanda as a woman,, and the job was an opportunity/excuse to connect with her and spend time in her presence. He could swoop in and “rescue the damsel,” while using it as a chance to be in her orbit and know her. Not sure I communicated this well, but I don’t know how to say it better right now.

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    • I think I know what you mean in the last paragraph. And isn’t Lee doing this all the time, using work as an excuse to spend time with Amanda? He often suggests her name to Billy when they need “someone with the right security clearance”, even as far back as Season 1. Byron doesn’t have a beauracracy to hide behind, so his actions are more obvious than Lee’s.

      The fact that Byron’s been checking up on Amanda (asking coworkers about her, etc.) must be flattering. He actually has been fairly patient in approaching her, but the attention is pretty sudden for Amanda.

      I don’t know much about sexual harrassment, but this doesn’t seem like that to me. A bit over-the-top? Yes. But I’m under the impression that harrassment is unwanted attention and Amanda is definitely not sending those signals.

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      • whooo so true LASinLA!! Lee has been getting to know Amanda under the guise of ‘work’ for a while now! 🙂

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        • In today’s understanding of sexual harassment, it is probably the technical definition that the attention needs to be unwanted, but the common rule is becoming no touching or remarks . . . after all, why take chances? There are classes and training seminars on how to avoid anything remotely resembling a harassment situation. So not only are Byron’s not-so-subtle advances out of line by modern standards, but (unfortunatly) so is Lee’s attention and touching of Amanda. Workplace romances, at least in the professional sphere, are becoming more and more frowned upon.

          I think its important for older TV shows (or classic books) that we allow the time period to have its own standards of what’s acceptable and approch it from an understanding of the context in which it was written (something that I think everyone involved with this blog is very good at, BTW). It is always good to have an understanding of the viewpoints of other times and places. For perspective, today’s books and film contain things (i.e. violence and suggestive/explicit content) that would make people from other times/places cringe, just as their attitudes make people today cringe. And I expect future generations will judge the social mores of our times with similar harshness.

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    • Like!! Especially this part:

      I think Byron is a little comfortable, like Dean, and a little exciting, like Lee. She responds because she wants a change from the roller coaster relationship with Lee, and because Byron is really trying to meet her where she is.

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      • Hi BJo!!!

        I was going to come back to this wonderful comment of Debilyn’s you’ve quoted here – I agree!!! I really loved this insight Debilyn!!! 🙂

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    • Great insights, especially about Dean & Lee. I think Byron makes her comfortable because he seems very open & honest. And this was the 80’s, and in light of that I didn’t find his manner creepy like the Honeywell (?) (Honeycutt?) typewriter guy.

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  7. Amanda is a little more in control here than it seems at first glance. She knows for sure now Byron is interested on a personal level as well as professional.
    I think she is comfortable with him both on a personal and professional level, she is obviously sure he is a genuinely nice guy, she enjoys his company and has enjoyed the dinner. But for now that is as far as she wants the personal relationship to go.
    She starts to say something then stops, which is a great way to get the other person’s attention. It creates a gap in the flow of conversation, sort of like a small “reset” moment. A good ploy to interrupt the flow and manoeuvre the conversation more towards “business”, which after all the pretext on which he got her there in the first place.
    I’ve recently had an experience myself with a guy where I had to manoeuvre the conversation a bit to keep him on track – it’s not underhand or anything, sometimes you’ve just got to put up little barriers and diversions keep the situation comfortable. With a bit of skill the other person doesn’t even know the conversation is being “directed”.
    Anyway, once Amanda gets the conversation back to business she is able to convey to Byron that he needs to slow down without actually saying so in so many words. Her question about the success of his security company is a good one – gives his ego a bit of a stroke and gets the conversation firmly back to business. However, Byron’s not a successful businessman for nothing and he’s pretty good at reading people too. I think with his next question, “So how do you like working for me so far? he might have finally clicked to the fact that Amanda is just a little uncomfortable with his very “personal” approach so far.
    Amanda’s response, “Oh! Well I like it very much, but I’ve only been doing it for a day.” signals clearly but tactfully to him that he needs to slow things down. On the face of it she is talking about business (working for him) but she knows Byron is smart enough to hear the message behind the words. Byron.
    And this is where Byron lays his cards on the table, which enables the relationship to proceed on a more comfortable footing. If it happens, it happens. If it doesn’t, it doesn’t. Hate to say it but I think Amanda does like him a bit more at this point.
    Well, gotta go do some work so I will leave it there. Looking forward to reading everyone else’s comments later in the day.

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    • I like the way you described how Amanda led the conversation, Kiwismh. I can really see that in the dialogue.

      I think that if Amanda was to wait for Lee at this stage she would be pursuing a relationship that kind of confused love with infatuation. How could she put her heart on the line for a man that she knows is not her type and could never embrace her family? I keep thinking that thought as I watch this scene. She needs to know beyond a shadow of a doubt that Lee is it and for her to know that a few things still need to happen. She is open here to someone else at least a bit. Even if she is thinking that there will never be icing on the cake, she is not shutting him down. I know that could be hard with your boss on the first day of work, but as Iwsod said in a recent comment somewhere, Amanda isn’t using that fake smile here.
      The only thing that makes these scenes ok for me is that I know what comes next. Too bad we are all glad that the first nice guy to like Amanda gets killed. Oh well…

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    • BIIIIGGGGGGGG LIKE here kiwismh!!! love all this!!! 🙂

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    • kiwismh…you’re too smart for me! Great comment on their conversation!

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  8. If this were not her boss, I could see Amanda enjoying the attention of someone who is open and upfront about his attraction. But, big caveat here, Byron is her employer. He is wining and dining her at his home on her first day of work. Feels so inappropriate to me that it’s hard to get past it. Ok, deep breath, I still think Amanda is a woman who is receptive and tries not to judge others. If she had been in the workforce for a longer time, I think she might be more wary of this situation. And haven’t we all tried going out with others, even though our hearts might be pulling us in another direction since that way seems to be a no go. It healthier than moping around over a seemingly hopeless relationship.

    I’m going to try posting this from my phone. So far I’ve managed to delete this twice. It’s the trama of just now having my hair cut into a veery short pixie cut. Oh dear, can’t hide behind my hair anymore. Arrrrghh!!

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  9. Ooh, this is a hard scene to watch. Intellectually, I understand that Amanda isn’t in a relationship with Lee, and has no real expectations of that happening. Byron’s a decent guy, good looking, treats her well. He could be just the man she’s looking for, and she is clearly receptive to that possibility. It all makes perfect sense. But it hurts my romantic little heart.

    As a young woman, I remember being angry with Amanda for accepting Byron’s attentions. As an adult, I’m more accepting, and know now that what the heart wants is not always what’s best for us; you can’t live on love, as they say. Still, the viewers have been led to see a burgeoning romance between Lee and Amanda, to root for them to become a couple. So this scene feels like a betrayal. Can you tell I hate it? HATE.IT.

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  10. When SMK first came out I was in my last year or so of college and was transitioning into teaching. At the time sexual harassment in the workplace was not something that was not yet addressed and not yet the issue as it has become. It is even part of school policies now and how students deal with each other, but I digress.

    It is hard to say that’s what this is. We keep going back to how Byron is such an upstanding and good guy. But again, this is all so rushed. I would think that knowing KJ and what kind of person and actress she is that she wouldn’t allow the storyline to go that far in the wrong direction or be misleading in its attempt. I guess we just have to take Byron Jordan at face value and accept that he is a respected, well-liked businessman.

    We have gotten so used to the back and forth nature and hesitancy of Lee in how he treats Amanda that when someone is this open and honest about how they feel it feels wrong and rushed. Lee has been so closed off and Byron is so open–maybe a little too much. And because we have all been rooting so long for Lee and Amanda we are tending to not see Byron in the best light, even though he may have the best intentions. At this point, maybe Amanda is in her “let’s just wait and see how this plays out” mode.

    In the first episode we learn that Amanda has been divorced a year, yet been dating Dean for a while. Even though Dotty points this out and tries to push Amanda into marrying Dean, Amanda still felt it was too soon to move in that direction and felt rushed. I think she knew deep down that Dean was not the one, even then.

    Maybe this episode is like that fable of the Tortoise and the Hare and we see that it’s slow and steady that wins the race. It would have been interesting to see where all this would have been headed had Byron made it past the credits. I agree that while Amanda has some type of deep feelings for Lee, she is keeping them deep within herself. She is still not quite sure of Lee and he is not very forthcoming. She is a vibrant woman who wants a special someone in her life. She has to be willing to move on if Lee is not willing to be that someone.

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    • As I was reading your comment, Valerie, I thought that maybe Jordan really had been aware of Amanda a while longer than we had been aware of him. We are so used to Amanda just not being Lee’s type, but she is a remarkable woman and maybe Byron zoned in on that right away. Maybe he would like nothing better than to have the woman of his life be a part of every part of his life ( the very thing that Lee runs so far away from). Maybe this direct pursuit of Amanda is just to under score for us how remarkable and desirable Amanda is, and how far in denial Lee has been?

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    • I love this part, Valerie:

      And because we have all been rooting so long for Lee and Amanda we are tending to not see Byron in the best light, even though he may have the best intentions. At this point, maybe Amanda is in her “let’s just wait and see how this plays out” mode.

      And I do think that she is willing to move on if Lee is not willing to be her special someone, as you put it. Amanda is much too practical to wait forever for Lee at this point in her journey, IMHO.

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  11. Oh my (shaking my head). Bryon has it all for Amanda, the job, money and even more. All in one day so Amanda must be confused/overwhelmed.
    Yes the writers made it clear Bryon lays all his cards on the table for Amanda, Lee holds everything back.
    You know whats bothering me the most: we never see Lee & Amanda at a romantic candellight dinner, arghhh ore am I missing something?

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    • we never see Lee & Amanda at a romantic candellight dinner
      Well, when they’re not playing a cover… there was the Pepe Le Pew candlelit dinner in Weekend. LOL!

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      • tee hee! True! KC!! though I won’t comment on if there is a candlelit dinner ahead for us.. I sure do look forward to finding out what romantic situations Lee and Amanda get into in future!

        In Amanda’s dream about Lee (Rick) in Doa had candles also.. we didn’t see dinner. but the script mentions it.. and we did see Champagne.. 🙂

        Okay this little doozie is not in an episode.. but I can’t help myself:

        I see candles!!! 😉

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        • Her hair is absolutely amazing. I finally figured out what it reminds me of – Alex the lion from the Madagascar cartoon.

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        • I love everything about this photo except the hair, which was OMG Sooooo Big! even by 80’s standards. Here’s a little project for someone who is an expert with Photoshop – how about reworking Amanda’s hair in this photo to a nice 80’s style and reposting the modified version for all to enjoy. I would do it myself but I don’t have Photoshop and my artistic and hairstyling skills are not much.

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          • hiya!
            Is the season 4 dvd cover from the same photo shoot?

            Amanda’s hair doesn’t look as big – but maybe it’s because Lee and Amanda are standing next to each other? I don’t know.. but photoshopping Amanda’s hair is completely beyond my talents sorry kiwismh! 🙂

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            • Someone seriously needs to fix the Season 2 cover… KJ looks cross-eyed and like she has a raccoon on her head… 😥

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            • I could stare at this pic of Lee all night and never see Amanda…who cares about her lions mane when you have a hunk to stare at!!
              Just look at Lee’s blue eyes and dimples , the perfect hair, the tux…OMG…SWOON! I am in a trance….

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              • Indeed Gruvy Granny – Lee looks dreamy here!!!! 🙂 lucky guy. (and lucky us!) the Tux is timeless.. unfortunately they had KJ in a very 80s look that was sure to date – fast!

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  12. Well, if this thing would happen nowadays the guy could be sued right away, this really only works in the context of the show and I can not say how glad I am we moved on.

    Just yesterday I thought about the books I used to read when I was a girl and how my mother gave me the books she read as a girl and I was then soo glad, that I had more freedom at that time than the characters in the books, that where just going to university to try for a husband and immediately stopped any attempt of a career or studies of their own once this goal was reached…

    And now I decided to not bother to confuse my girls about their status in life by giving then those books just now, since even classics have cringworthy parts all over…

    I think what bothers me most about the whole thing is the context, Amanda is divorced, and she has let it happen, that Joe pulled out of his responsibilities emotionally and financially, it is ok to get divorced but not ok to let the the husband take his fair share if you want to be a woman who is well liked by all? And that is so commonly accepted, that another man can be the knight in shining amor and come and fix your financial troubles and you do not even have to get uncomfortable with it, just as you do not ever have to have a bad concience about dragging your mother into the whole thing and making her cover for something that is absolutly not her fault (ok, there is the matter of the dad and we might suppose that Dotty was glad to move him after his death, but are we ever told so, I do not think so).

    I guess, that is why I always liked Francine, she at least is standing her ground. But at what price, I really feel for her… And I do like her in this episode so far.

    And that all said I still like Bryon even though everything is so wrong, so the writers did succeed with me.

    And Amanda does what she is doing with Lee all the time, putting a nice face and assuming the best of Bryon, doesn’t she. And for me, she is quite glad, that she is given the impression, that she has a choice with Bryon and happy to fool herself, that this will actually be the case in the long run too. I do not see her jumping into this thing, just being flattered.

    You know in this way, like you are flattered by a guy who takes you into his confidence at work and you meet for lunches and have a nice time and at some point it hits you, that he is not just nice but hitting at you the whole time and you get this terribly sick felling in the stomach and know for sure, this is not what you need at all and you landed yourself into a whole lot of trouble and will not be able to pull out without some collateral damage, I judge Amanda to be two weeks away from this realisation at this point.

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    • I love your insights, Julia!

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    • Just my two cents, FWIW: I’m not sure that Joe pulled out of his responsibilities financially… the way I understand it is that Joe pays child support, but Amanda turned down alimony (was it TFT that came up in?). I feel she has pride and isn’t willing to be “kept” by him, no matter whether she’s entitled to it or not. Don’t get me wrong–I’m not saying that accepting alimony is bad or wrong… just that I can and do completely understand the desire to be independent. (Though, yes, there is the matter of Dotty…)

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    • Hi Julia! Great to hear from you!! man.. there is a whole lot in this comment to unpack!!

      Looking at Joe up to this point – we know he left, and that he pays child support and Amanda refused alimony ( Ah I see KC has confirmed this cool! It was in The Mole we learned this)

      I’d really like to come back to all this with you Julia as we continue our walk through- but so far we are given very little information about Amanda’s divorce.. grrrr.. I just remember I disliked all the sweethearts between Amanda and Joe in Season 4- other than that My memory isn’t great.. so I’d love to revisit all this with you when we get to Wrong Way home.

      The impression I get of Amanda is that her growth as an independent woman is part of her journey. For me, I see her becoming more and more assertive and confident in herself..

      I think I particularly like the idea that Amanda is not yet in love with Lee – because then she is not counting on him for her health and happiness. She is being wise and taking control of her life – by being wise in how she doesn’t fantasise about a future relationship with Lee, she doesn’t force him to go beyond what he wants to. I guess I see women who count on a man to save them as being super needy, manipulative, clingy.. etc. So while Lee does tend to want to be Amanda’s Mr Fixit, I think she accepts it but she doesn’t count on it – she does stand on her own two feet.. at least I think so!

      BTW- I think Amanda’s actions in this episode are very proactive and empowering. She makes a decision about what she wants for her future, and takes care of her family. She doesn’t moan about the agency and take the crumbs they give her. She finally stands up and asks for a raise. Good for her – I think this shows growth! So it’s interesting that you raise this idea now!

      I guess right now Amanda is still growing in this area..

      I agree with you about stories where girls wait for a guy to rescue them? can’t stand them!!! 🙂
      Glad to hear you like Byron – I actually like him much more this time than I have in previous viewings. I actually feel sorry that the poor guy winds up dead!

      I do hope what I’ve said makes some sense here.. I’m rushing and being naughty! 🙂

      Gotta run! byee!

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      • Yes–that’s right… it was in The Mole… the episode where Amanda gets the “United States Bureau of the Census Department of Marital Relations” badge and ID–ROFL!
        Oh–and I found I had the quote written down, so here it is:
        … Now, I mean, I take child support—I never took alimony…” (about 30 minutes into the episode).

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        • Thank you so much for this information, but honestly the more I think about the divorce the less I like Joe. So he is saving by having to pay only child support, but does he use the money to take the kids to amazing places, visit him or buy them equipment or sponsor clubs. No he does not and that is not at all the thing. Amanda’s behavior is beyond me here. I do like the fact, that she is not talking negatively about him to the boys, but by making her choices she is making the boys lives more difficult too. In financial issues pride is a stupid thing in my eyes.

          I mean Joe could give these children amazing experiences but chooses not to. I have just come back from Australia with my kids and the sheer joy of a shared experience like that should be obvious to everybody.

          Also Amanda never seems to think that they could visit him in the strange places he lives, even if moving there was too much for her, she could try for a little more contact, they are boys who need a father after all. And it never occurs to the boys either.

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          • If I remember correctly, there was a lot going on in South Africa at the time that made it a pretty dangerous place, so I can understand Amanda not wanting to travel there. However, I do remember thinking that Joe could have made plans to come home more, though air travel was pretty expensive at the time. We don’t know how often or if he ever came home, but we do know that he wrote to stay in touch. In a sense, he did keep up with their lives, just not physically.

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            • Considering Amanda didn’t recognize the striking physical similarities between Joe and Glen, I think it is safe to assume she hasn’t seen Joe in a very long time.

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            • This conversation about Joe has made me think and I think it reveals a bit more about Amanda’s character and how she is responding here in the is scene as it pertains to her leaving the agency and the comfortable dynamic with Lee.
              Joe was an Aid worker. I don’t think he made a lot of money. And I think the nature of the divorce had more to do with releasing Joe to pursue what he felt he needed to do. Yes, I have a huge issue with that, the man had brought two children into the world and I do think that should be his first priority. There are other ways to work with the foreign aid community than to live there, but that is the plot. Amanda in her graciousness released him. Maybe she tried to fight for their marriage, maybe they tried many ways to make it work and they couldn’t do it? And maybe she also decided to allow him to continue his life’s work by not taking alimony, after all she was the one that lived in the US and could pursue a job. I don’t even like what I am writing, I think that is doing something like this is a character trait that Amanda would still need to work on. It is all and good to be gracious, but not sure if that is the way to use. But I do think it is in her character to practice the “if you love something set it free….” However you want to categorize her love for Lee she is releasing again. Joe didn’t come back, but Lee? Well, we will see.

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              • Morley I like what you are saying here and that part about setting something free if you love is true in my experience. Joe didn’t come back – at least not soon enough 😉 – so he really never was hers to begin with. I like Joe and don’t have a problem with him. I prefer to think that he and Amanda thought they were in love and probably did love each other to a certain extent, but it wasn’t the same type of love that Lee and Amanda eventually have – a more perfectly fit love, if you will with a rock solid foundation. I tend to think they were young when they got married and probably shouldn’t have in hindsight.

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          • Hi Julia, if you would like to discuss the Joe character now including all four seasons- feel free to head over to Nedlindger’s and start a thread about him – 🙂
            As I’m not thinking ahead of MBF now, your comments here did get me thinking about how very little we know about Joe at this stage. I don’t think we even know he is in Africa no? And the one time we did hear about him was Amanda giving Marriage advice to Penny ( oh the irony) !

            The writers seem to have chosen to have Joe be a non-entity for Amanda and the kids so far- which is really quite strange! I don’t draw conclusions about Amanda because of this though, because I tend to put this down to bad writing. because they wanted to downplay Amanda being divorced – an 80s cultural thing..and they were trying to downplay at first how Amanda was a divorcee.. This is just my own idea.. don’t mind me! 🙂
            But – Joe being so absent from the narrative does in itself end up telling us things about him doesn’t it!
            Before we find out anything more about Joe, we are left to write him off as an absent father the family have nothing to do with.. You know, I think we heard more about what Dean did with the boys and bought for the boys than we’ve ever heard about Joe at this point! When Amanda can’t afford a wizard whopper no one suggests asking dad for the money. It’s like he doesn’t exist!
            So we are left to guess.. hmm..

            I’m guessing that Joe moved to Ubondwa for a few years, made friends with the communist rebels, came back to DC so evil that his ex didn’t recognise him. He bankrolled a company called Jordan Securities, killed his ‘pal’ (partly for dating his ex maybe), sniffed his ex’s serviette and ended up suffocating in a party cake. Eventually to be revived a changed man- Yep.. I’m going with that.. Does that sound ridiculous? good.. because it flippin is! 🙂

            Maybe Joe is Amanda’s version of what Eva was for Lee[without the KGB angle haaa]- a youthful burst of lust that was mistaken for real love – but as Amanda matures, she realises the love wasn’t deep enough or strong enough to last the distance.. and they really had very little in common.

            byeee for now!!

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      • “stories where girls wait for a guy to rescue them”

        Iwsod, this reminds me of the movie “Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves.” I remember liking Maid Marian pretty well until the scene at the end where Robin comes in to rescue her from the bad guy, Prince John (I think). She does nothing but cry and scream as they fight. I kept thinking she could at least bash the guy’s head with something. My hubby was laughing at me while I was telling her to grab something and help Robin. Honestly, that scene just made me mad.

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      • Agree with your comments Iwsod but I think that Amanda already knowing she loves Lee as more than a friend makes her seem even stronger in this episode. Even though she loves him, she’s showing huge strength of character and maturity in not counting on him for her health and happiness. She is being wise and taking control of her life – by being wise in how she doesn’t fantasise about a future relationship with Lee, she doesn’t force him to go beyond what he wants to.

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