Before we continue.. a quick mention of how the script had a slightly different in the conversation between Lee and Amanda.. Thanks for sharing this with us kiwismh! ________________________________
Kiwismh’s script notes: At Dooleys, where Lee and Amanda hope to catch Joe.
Lee-You wanted to be a housewife.
Amanda-I wanted a home. It was like a separation for two years, and we finally said, “This isn’t working.” Life’s turned out okay. __________________________________________________________
Any thoughts on this guys? Which do you prefer? why?
On with the episode..
Amanda suddenly notices Joe arriving.
Lee looks up and see’s Joe arrive too- This is our first wide shot since ‘okay isn’t good enough’ – do you think they are holding hands here behind that beer jug? I’m thinking not.
Lee looks worried as he tries to instruct Amanda..
So.. this was Lee’s first look at Joe.
How interesting.. and.. Amanda’s first look at Joe after what I can only assume is 3 yrs minimum?? Maybe 5?
Lee continues: Alright, I want you to get his attention…
…while I come around by his blindside.
[I’ve gotta laugh.. umm maybe you guys should have had this conversation before he showed up??!! lol!! but I also notice that this is Lee thinking of using Amanda to distract the ‘baddie’ as a tactic again Just like he did in Vigilante mothers no? ]
Amanda (gently): No, no, no, no—
Amanda: He doesn’t know you. You’ve got to let me talk to him first. He’s bound to be nervous… [Hmm gee so maybe you two should not have been sitting together waiting for Joe?! good thing Joe doesn’t see them first!]
…You watch, and I’ll give you a signal, alright?
[We cut to a wide shot, Amanda is leaning toward Lee, pleading with him to listen to her – and.. IMHO Amanda has reached for Lee’s hand there behind the beer jug.
Lee seems to freeze here.. other than his thumb- which seems to reach for Amanda’s hand in his..
Lee lets Amanda make the decision – it would have been easy for Lee to become angry and bossy here (old Lee might have.. but here Lee lets Amanda call the shots). why does Lee freeze like this?? everyone??
Maybe seeing Joe in the flesh Lee needs a moment to collect himself..? Is it that he has to watch Amanda approach Joe without him? Is it that his feelings for Amanda and the whole situation are challenging Lee? do tell- what do you think?!!]
Amanda continues: …Now come on, don’t scare him off.
Without waiting for Lee to respond- Amanda finishes what she is saying and immediately moves to go meet Joe.
Watch Lee here! Oh my… he still seems frozen
except for his thumb on his left hand..
it seems to be caressing the part of his hand which held Amanda’s just a second earlier.
Whoa.. for me this has an air of Lee experiencing loss here- is it just me?
[looks like Amanda left her purse on the chair?! ]
Lee watches Amanda approach Joe.
In this moment – I think Lee is struggling to come to terms with his fears, what they are and their strength. why? I think it’s because he cares about Amanda and wants the best for her- and he is putting her needs first during this really serious situation.
I also think it’s possible Lee is wondering now if Amanda still has feelings for Joe- especially after the way she just explained the divorce in a way which was extremely (IMHO) gracious toward Joe. Also, Lee knows Amanda wanted her family together – is this now an opportunity to finally get what she wanted all those years ago??!!!!!
I don’t think Lee would want to stand in the way of Amanda having her family together again, and the boys having their father back.. I think he would step back and give Amanda the freedom to have that home she wanted for her family. If that’s what Amanda wants.. Thoughts anyone? everyone?! 🙂
It seems to me that just like back in the Q bureau when Shamba arrived – things are still up in the air between Lee and Amanda.. what’s going to happen next? – who can tell!!!! Based on what I’ve seen so far I’m not sure where Amanda is at!
I think Lee gives himself an internal shake here.. just focus on helping Amanda and doing what’s best for her and her family– and don’t worry about yourself. If he does this, he will be happy with the outcome – whatever that may be. [though devastated to lose Amanda me thinks] This is related to how I saw Lee earlier in the Q bureau – I didn’t see him thinking of himself or motivated by his own needs – I felt he was motivated by Amanda’s and Joe’s needs and solving the case. Lee probably had a little fear and curiosity going on- but they weren’t motivating him or dictating his actions.
Here, I still don’t see them motivating Lee – but.. I do see Lee as having a moment where it all hits him and he needs to collect himself- maybe it is a moment where a decision is made for Lee – worry about himself vs just do what’s best for Amanda..? Thoughts everyone?
Can’t wait to hear how you guys see it! I am seeing Lee as being quite mature and selfless in this episode – this is a man who is demonstrating real love. Not the kind that fades away when you want to travel with your work and your kids and wife want a home so you say I’ll take the job and you leave. Not that kind of love – and I wonder if this contrast is part of what the writers were wanting to convey – given the conversation Lee and Amanda just had about how love wasn’t enough for Joe and Amanda.. ( I tend to see this more as it wasn’t a true love – it was a young immature love) real love is selfless and steadfast. but hey this is just my take on things! Oh dear.. sorry I’ve rambled on!
Well, Joe sees Amanda and then turns and walks away – Amanda seems surprised by this and turns to Lee – eek!
Amanda’s worried right now.. and doesn’t need Lee to be all thinking of himself right now!
[Hey see the joke etched into what Amanda is touching?? something about what do you get when you cross a ??? and a computer?? anyone know this gag??]
So Amanda follows Joe out, and Lee gets up looking determined to follow, catch Joe and support Amanda…. but.. I’ll pause here.. and we’ll pick up again at the same spot shortly – I really can’t wait to hear what you all think!!!
Byeee for now!
This episode does have so many moments of heart-break feel to it, but yet, I always feel the undercurrent between Lee and Amanda like a strong foundation that will last despite this bizarre situation they find themselves in. As Morley commented, there is so much that happens in this seemingly simple scene over pizza, but yet, it is so profound and BB and KJ are just insanely amazing here.
Iwsod, I agree with your whole thinking here about Lee’s selflessness and putting Amanda first – I actually commented on that a few posts back because Lee’s behavior seems so striking to me in this episode.
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Hiya Amandarambler- I’ve LOVED reading your thoughts as you really soaked up this episode. It’s funny how different episodes really connect with us at different moments and times in our lives. And I love that when this random, unpredicatable connection takes place, all of us can come here and just share with others our experience of it!
I wish we could all do this for any SMK episode – but we’ll get there eventually!
I’ve loved your insights – and being reminded of all the swoony Lee and Amanda moments in this one – so much character development..
Oh and I loved being reminded of some of the silly gags along the way.
You know what’s funny? I may have written the posts but I’ve forgotten about 90% of the jokes. so I could read a quote, laugh at it and then find out I wrote it a few years ago haaaaaa..
Oh and Morley.. I miss you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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This is a really great episode. Iwsod, your pictures make it so much better. I have found that when I watched the DVDs I missed so much that I never knew I missed until this walk with you. Lee is so sweet here and in the last post; he is so understanding and shows how much he cares for Amanda while she is trying to help Joe.
Yep, I agree wholeheartedly, iwsod! Joe was not the man for Amanda – then or now. And I think Amanda knows it. I don’t think she and Joe were ever really in true love.
Part of the reason I think Amanda is kind to Joe with her words is because in some way she still respects and admires him. Maybe that’s why she thought she was in love with him. I think she admires the qualities in him that led him to take the EAO job while at the same time hurt by the fact that they couldn’t make it work and her kids would grow up without a father. I also think she appreciates the time he’s taken to continue to stay in touch. He’s written piles of letters to her and the boys or maybe more toward the boys. He so easily could have not done that. I think he’s made an effort as best he could and Amanda does see value in that. Not sure I would be that generous, but I think she is. I also wonder how the death of Amanda’s father affected her and what she thought she wanted in a husband.
I’m not a Joe-hater, but I don’t excuse what he did. No matter how noble his reasons may have been (or not) he did make a choice to leave his wife and kids behind. But I think I look at it like they both realized they had both made mistakes and were going to do their best to move on and make the best of the situation – that is quintessential Amanda to me. Because Joe did the leaving, I think there is a tendency to lay the blame at Joe’s feet. Based on how Amanda has been in this ep so far, I don’t think she does. In fact, I think she lays part of the blame at her own feet. I think there is an awful lot of hurt and disappointment in the part of Amanda’s life and she probably doesn’t want to relive it at all. Having to explain it to Lee probably is putting her stomach in big knots.
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Perfect cutting right at that last screen shot. Amanda is literally between Lee and Joe. She looks at Joe as he turns around to leave and then looks back at Lee. But that is where Amanda is emotionally as well. She is torn between her past and her present/future (we hope!).
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whooooo I like it!! Hey LAAL!
[loved your observation about the pizza and beer too btw – sorry just been too busy to get back here and tell you! ]
I love all the naked emotion on Lee’s face throughout this scene. I never thought that Amanda was considering in any way the possibility of getting back together with Joe, but that isn’t something Lee would know because she hold her cards so close to the vest. Even when watching the show way back when it seemed apparent to me that Amanda had accepted the divorce and was working through the aftermath, not considering reuniting with Joe. YMMV 😉 Aren’t these two just beautiful here? sigh
I agree, jule. I never thought Amanda was considering getting back with Joe. She has changed too much from when they divorced and has a new life to move forward with.
“While I come around by his blindside.” So what was Lee going to do, jump on Joe? Knock him out and handcuff him? Draw his gun on him? Or just try to talk him in to turning himself in peacefully? I think he would have tried the latter first for Amanda’s sake.
Of course he and Amanda are not supposed to know each other, so it is just as well Joe didn’t see them together sharing beer and pizza.
Oh well, at least we got to see a quite illuminating conversation between Lee and Amanda, even if it was a not very smart thing for them to be seen together by Joe as acquaintances or friends.
yeah, I guess I can’t say anything about the other scenes, but it always struck me how obvious it is they know each other through this whole episode. Maybe, it’s not very professional, but I kind of like it. It’s like there is such a familiarity between them that is just doesn’t come natural at all to pretend like they don’t know each other.
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Iwsod said, “…for me this has an air of Lee experiencing loss here.”
I think you’re right Iwsod. I think it really hits Lee here that Amanda may want a reconciliation with Joe – she is very forgiving and even understanding of Joe’s desire to “give” to others. It no point in the conversation she and Lee just had did she seem to even insinuate that Joe was wrong to leave his family. The way she explains it to Lee it’s just like, well, it was what Joe felt called to do and I felt it was more sensible to keep the boys here in a stable environment. To Lee it must very much seem like Amanda and Joe haven’t really separated emotionally, they’ve just been working on different projects, physically apart from each other, for a few years.
The way Amanda talks it seems to me that it could be a natural progression for her and Joe to get back together if he is going to be living back in the US (provided of course he didn’t murder anyone and gets to keep his freedom). Lee knows he’s in love with Amanda but at this point it hits him that his love for her is doomed to remain unrequited.
Although Lee and Amanda have become much closer, Amanda has so far been holding back a little, and Lee must now wonder if Joe is the reason for that.
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I like how you say it seems like Joe and Amanda may not have separated emotionally. I think it goes along with what others have been saying about the possible fantasy Amanda may have built up about Joe’s return. And she certainly doesn’t say that Joe was wrong for leaving.
Oh my goodness I am so loving this walk right now. I agree completely, Iwsod about the hand-holding. I think it was something that could have easily been missed or overlooked at first viewing. I agree also that Lee expresses some loss when Amanda takes her hand away. Here they are being open and honest with Amanda finally opening up a bit and Lee showing some raw feelings and emotions. In the last set of comments someone mentioned how Lee has gone from these expensive meals and drinks to something more in line with being normal. I think that is true in regards to it being Lee we see more of, and less and less of Scarecrow. I think that Lee has longed for that and its coming through more and more as he finally moves from those bimbos to a more realistic relationship. So here he has opened himself up a bit and Amanda hasn’t really noticed it yet as she is so focused on Joe and his issues and most likely her own. HIs reactions are kind of heart-breaking. But you also get to see something else here. He is willing to sacrifice what he may be feeling or wanting to do to allow Amanda to be happy and find her way through all of this. Lee has put Amanda first and has always done so. He is taking a back seat and allowing Amanda to make the decisions as to how to handle this. Joe, however, seems to have only put himself first. Lee is really showing how much he listened to Amanda about being patient with love.
The one thing that I can say about Amanda is that she doesn’t just discount Lee, she just asks that he be patient a bit longer. She asks him to watch and indicates she’ll signal him. And I think she is well aware of just what her touch can do and how it can affect Lee.
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I don’t think Lee really makes the decision here to put Amanda first. I think from the moment Lee asked for this case it was out of concern for Amanda and he knew right away it wasn’t about him, I think he may be struggling with that decision a little now that he sees Joe in the flesh. After hearing how much Amanda wanted her family to work he may have had the thought he could lose her for the first time since this all started. Even before they were really close the idea of losing Amanda has never set well with Lee. I think we see that way back in IANNNHIEBAS when up to that point, Lee complained a lot about having to work with Amanda, but when Billy said he might not be able to anymore, Lee didn’t like it. Also I agree that Lee doesn’t really like it very much that Amanda has not been that forthcoming about what she went through with Lee. I think at this point he really wants her to trust him with anything.
However, it never really bothered me or in my opinion showed any confusion on Amanda’s part about how she felt about Lee that she wasn’t entirely comfortable opening up about her divorce. Her own feelings of failure for one I am sure got in the way. They may be at a totally different place now, but Amanda spent a lot of time getting Lee to respect her and trust her. It wouldn’t be easy talking about that kind of failure to someone you wanted so badly to think highly of you.
Also as close as they’ve gotten this kind of intimacy is a bridge Lee and Amanda haven’t really crossed before. No matter how close they had gotten in the past talking about their romantic lives was something they only did in passing and both seemed uncomfortable with. I think intimate details of that nature were something they kept separate from their relationship and until recently kind of seemed off limits. Also I am sure just Joe’s very presence in a reminder of what she went through the last time she completely opened her heart, and that would probably make her gun shy with Lee.
Most of all, while I think both Lee and Amanda are well aware at this point that their feelings for each other go deeper than friendship, I don’t think either one has admitted even to themselves just exactly what that means, not alone to each other. With out Lee ever telling her outright just how much she means to him, it makes perfect sense to me that Amanda wouldn’t yet be comfortable sharing that kind of intimacy with him.
As for Lee, while I do believe that we see him start to move things forward in his relationship after this episode, he’s not going to do it right now. First of all until Amanda comes to terms with what it means to have Joe back in her life, Lee doesn’t know where he stands. Second of all, while his own feeling’s are no doubt in turmoil, I think Lee is probably worried about how vulnerable Amanda is right now. He’s not going to put any more pressure on her in the middle of all this. While I do agree with IWSOD that Lee wouldn’t stand in the way if Amanda decided she and Joe still had a chance to be a family, i think that doesn’t sit well with Lee for more reasons than jealousy. He doesn’t think it’s his place to say so, but I think Lee is really concerned about Joe’s reappearance in Amanda’s life because Joe already hurt Amanda once. That’s something Lee has experience himself, for instance with Eva, and look how it turned out when he was thinking about giving her another chance. Joe is no Eva, but after going through something like that, I don’t think Lee will ever entirely trust Joe, and he doesn’t want Amanda to get hurt again.
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Like so much of what you say here, creaturecuddler! For the first year and a half Amanda was looked down upon by the folks at the Agency (Lee and Francine in particular) because of who she was and her lifestyle. It wasn’t until the end of S2 that things started to really warm up between the two, but Lee still makes comments here and there about Amanda’s lack of training. And although they are getting closer and caring about each other deeply, I can see why Amanda is not easily opening up to Lee about the parts of her personal life she probably feels like are failures. She wants him to think highy of her. It hurts Lee, but in her view his track record isn’t a great one necessarily with this stuff. I don’t agree with her, I think he has done a lot to show that she could open up and trust him, but I can understand why she may be hestitant.
I wonder if he had a momentary struggle with getting in touch with the old Scarecrow and his spy side???? You know, he couldn’t remember the words to make a detached professional plan to apprehend the suspect because he was a little preoccupied with falling in love… 😉
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There is so much going n in this episode and in the scene itself. What amazes me is that it is such a simple scene. Just two people sitting in a restaurant sipping beer and eating pizza having what really is just a bare bones conversation and yet so much is said and so much is asked and explored. Really amazing and so easy to overlook. I am glad we are going through it so slowly.
I love the way you pointed out that Lee freezes, all except that tell tale thumb! I love the way he uses his thumb. I kind of wonder if he was reaching for her hand after he said his swoony line about ok not being good enough and then Joe’s entrance cut that off. I can imagine the electric wave that would have gone through him when Amanda did reach for his hand just to communicate how they should work together to catch Joe.
But I am thinking you have something there about Lee making a choice in this moment. And I think he choosing a very mature and selfless love in the midst of some real uncertainty. And I also agree that he would not stand in the way if it happened that Amanda could have her family back together, if that is truly what she wanted. And I think he would do it out of love, choosing the best for the other. And I do see a contrast here between how Joe made choices and how Lee is making choices. It is subtle but profound and foundational.
I do think all those questions about what Amanda really feels and what she wants are very much up in the air, but maybe it is like those great shots of a tupperware (hehe) being opened and the contents flying all over the place. I think up until this moment Amanda has kept so much under wraps and here she has begun to open them. I know she wasn’t particularly forthcoming in this conversation with Lee, but she has made a start and I think it may go further for her inside her own heart and mind than we can see, or that Lee can see. Lee is only just becoming aware of all of the nooks and crannies in Amanda and all of the depths of his own feeling as well. That is why these moments are so intense.
It will be interesting to watch the tupperware contents fall and see who picks them up and where they get put 😉
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Love what you said Morley. The scene is so crammed full of unspoken emotion — but I do giggle a bit when Lee delivers the ‘blindside’ line. 🙂