Back to the Marvin’s factory and Barry is doing magic tricks and walking backwards.. while holding a gun on Amanda and Francine. LOL.. I would have been terrified Barry would trip on something fly back and the gun would accidentally go off! Just looks really wrong! [Like most things involving Barry!!]
Carla (to Amanda and Francine): Well, this should keep you comfy for a little while….
(to Barry): … Set the timer for 4:30.
[Oh that’s just nasty.. Lee said in the last post ‘they told Marvin we’ve got until 4:45 to find her’ – if they set the timer for 430 they’re reducing the time by 15 minutes! Ugh.. ]
Barry: Let’s just lock them up—what’s the point of the freezer?
Love the look Carla gives Barry here right before she answers him. [I think Carla’s thinking.. man you are dumb!! I agree with Kiwismh who said in comments she thinks Carla would have killed Barry after she got the money!]
Carla: Use your head, Barry… [Mission Impossible!]
…They’re living, breathing witnesses…
…If anything goes wrong,..
…I want them dead. Now, set the timer.
Barry does what he’s told..
[Barry lets himself get bossed around doesn’t he!]
We see a close up of the timer.. seems the time is now 3:36 and Barry inputs 4:30 and then the timer goes back to the time.
Amanda and Francine head into the freezer..
Carla: Come on!
Francine gets given a little shove by Carla here to make her. Fight! Fight! Fight! Nah… no fight
Francine gives them one last look as she goes inside..
Barry locks the freezer..
And Carla and Barry leave.
What was it that Francine called out to them before she got nabbed? Oh yeah.. it was.. “FREEZE!” well.. I kinda wish she hadn’t said that now!!! whwhahahaa!!!
With one last close up on the timer and the scene ends..
It’s commercial break time! doooo dee doooo..
[I figured I may as well go ahead and create a commercial ]
Back from the commercial break, we see another lovely exterior shot of Marvin’s at Columbia studios.. with the parking space for Columbia visitors. Whooo I think I saw the burger’s hand move!!!! Honest!!!! whahahaa
Back to the super important freezer number 4!
Plenty of chances for us to see it’s freezer number 4! Number 4!!! LOL what’s with all the shadows moving the foreground? I guess they’ve reused the same footage from when Barry and Carla left.. Well.. Looks like we have 15 minutes till the drop and 45 minutes till the freezer kicks in.. Uh oh..
We find Amanda and Francine inside searching for any weaknesses in the freezer structure.
Francine: Nothing… This place is airtight.
Amanda: Now what?
Francine (forcefully): Now what, what? (Ugh! What a nightmare.. stuck with Francine!!)
Amanda (shouts): Now what, what, what?…
…Don’t you have an idea?
[Amanda’s level of panic seems to be rising.. Whoa, we’ve seen Amanda is dangerous situations before, but she’s never reacted like this. I think it’s partly because she’s trapped with Francine and has to deal with her snipes.. Amanda’s had enough of Francine! lol… I wonder if it is a little to do with Francine interrupting Lee and Amanda the night before too? whahahaa.. thoughts? anyone? ]
Francine (shouts): Yes I do, Amanda…
(Francine jumps down)
…If we get out of here, my idea is you go home and you stay there.
[I loathe Francine in this moment!!! In a moment like this? saying that?? IMHO it’s really petty. Though I actually think Francine is so nasty here in this moment because she has no answer for Amanda.. the super skilled super spy Francine has nothing she can do.. when Amanda asks her what’s next.. and I think that is especially difficult for Francine, who prides herself on being so self-reliant and independent.. right now? She’s helpless.. so she lashes out at Amanda. Booo!]
(Amanda closes her eyes at this.. but quickly recovers.)
[ good for you Amanda!]
Amanda: Francine, look, I don’t wanna be…
(halts herself and closes her eyes)
…I’m sorry, we shouldn’t be arguing.
[I think this shows real maturity here from Amanda.. she’s the person here who rises above things to keep control of this situation.. not the trained agent ]
(Francine motions sort of that she agrees)
… We’re stuck here together,..
…and we gotta think like a team.
[I think Amanda has come to terms with the panic of being stuck with Francine now.. and her thinking is kicking back in.. good one Amanda]
(Francine turns to face Amanda.)
Francine: A team?
Amanda (nodding): A team.
[LOL Amanda is not a stranger to asserting her place in a partnership, she’s had years of experience with Lee! Hmm actually, now I think about it, she would have tried to do that with Joe – only that didn’t result in them being a team.. but with Lee – her persistence paid off and has equipped her to deal now with Francine! ]
Francine: You and me? A team? …
(laughs) …Oh, that’s real cute.
(Francine turns away from Amanda again.)
Amanda: Francine, it’s a fact!!
(Francine turns to face Amanda again.)
Amanda seems to have surprised herself at the forcefulness of her assertion here. Maybe bracing herself for Francine’s response.. will she lash out again? Insult Amanda some more??
Francine (forcefully): You know what a fact is? I rely on one person, and that is me. Now, this is the real world, here…
[I think Francine has no idea just how many dangerous situations Amanda has found herself in.. or if she knows.. she has chosen to disregard it IMHO.]
(Amanda seems a little taken aback at Francine’s reaction here)
[Whoa! Mt. Desmond has erupted! and out pours the lava of hurt!]
….Don’t you expect Lee to come charging in there on some kind of a white horse, because he won’t…
[Francine seems to see Amanda as the dreamer who needs a reality check.. Francine thinks she knows the harsh realities of life..and Amanda doesn’t.]
Francine: …People are not always there when you need them. You cannot count on them, because people leave.
Francine looks a little shocked at what she has revealed here..
[Can’t wait to hear what you all make of this!]
And quickly turns around to face the wall to collect herself. Embarrassed maybe at this crack in her tough super independent woman spy facade?
Amanda is shocked too.. She’s silent a moment.
We cut back to Francine, still with her back to Amanda.. her face now in her hand.. and she sighs.. trying hard to deal with her emotions..
We see Amanda glance around.. and then look back at Francine.. she seems determined here.
Amanda breaks the silence: Stuffy in here, huh?
[Seems Amanda has wisely chosen not to directly address Francine’s outburst, and has instead chosen to make things easier for Francine..and change the subject]
(Francine turns around to face Amanda.)
Francine (quietly): Yeah. (looks around) Now that you mention it, it is.
…We’re using up the air.
[Again.. Amanda keeps her head she manages to get her emotions sorted and try and be smart about this being held captive business.]
Francine silently acknowledges this.. (IMHO)
Amanda: I could hold my breath?!
Francine (IMHO) begrudgingly smiles at this attempt of Amanda’s to break the tension with a ridiculous suggestion..
Not even Francine thinks Amanda really meant that. Haaa and good to see that Francine has a semi-normal sense of humour!
Amanda shrugs.. Hey! I’m trying to keep some sanity here!
The scene ends.. Oh boy.. can’t wait to hear what you all make of this! What a fascinating scene between these two women.. a bit of a milestone moment maybe?
I’ve always found this moment where Francine lets her hurt out about people leaving to be a bit fast– for Francine! Maybe after a day or two stuck in there..I’d expect this! lol but well.. it’s here!! Sooo um maybe the speed of this confession of sorts, is an indication that deep down Francine has begun to let her guard down with Amanda..? What do you all think?
I think Francine has a few assumptions about Lee and Amanda here too.. She assumes Lee always rescues Amanda. Well.. yes okay.. often he does. but Amanda holds up her end of the bargain and rides in on white horse to rescue Lee quite regularly herself! [though alas the one time she was literally on a white horse? Lee did ride in and save her lol!!! Irony! what ep was that everyone??!!! ]
Oh and Amanda saved Francine in LOTP – well that must have been a fluke according to Francine.. she’s probably rationalised that one away successfully! Francine’s attitude reminds me of pre-Brunettes are In Lee.. Amanda doesn’t belong in the spy biz. For Lee it was that he didn’t want her to be in danger… but for Francine? It seems to be that she doesn’t think Amanda is cut out for the harsh realities the life brings. Maybe?
Hey- finally we have a really interesting scene to sink our teeth into again! it’s been a few posts of plot holes and head scratching.. sorry I haven’t been skipping all that – I do try and find the little character moments amongst the cringe worthy stuff.. and have a laugh at the silly plot craters (or hope someone can fill them for us all!) LOL.. and if I skipped it all – we’d miss fabulous gags about Lee actually forgetting he has to run his plan by Billy no?!
Whooo this is a biiiig post.. I’m going to stop here and leave further exploration to you guys.. and comments.. what’s going on here for Francine? for Amanda? Love to hear your thoughts! byee for now!
Count me in the camp of Carla bumping Barry off once she got the money. She’s Princess Di, remember? She can do a lot better than Barry the Brainless.
Your commercial break gifmeme is cracking me up!! Hahaha!
Yeah, I do think Amanda has had enough of Francine, but I’ll admit I’m a little disappointed in Amanda here by asking Francine if she has any ideas. After LOTP and her growth this season, I would have hoped that Amanda could come up with some suggestion other than the dopey idea to hold her breath. She must be very scared!
I don’t mind Francine here as much as you do, iwsod. I think she’d rather be in this situation alone than having to be responsible for herself and Amanda. She does not feel the same responsibility for Amanda as Lee does. And right now she’s probably wishing she was with Lee instead so that between the two of them they could figure out an escape plan. I don’t think Francine is an optimist. Unlike Lee.
Francine is having an amnesiac moment here…LOTP? Meat? Frankie Columbo? Who are they? I think she totally misreads Amanda here. I think she has no idea how many life-threatening situations Amanda has been in.
And I really wonder just who has left her. I wonder if it is one person or more than one. I also wonder if Lee on the white horse mention means that Francine does have an idea about Lee and Amanda’s personal relationship. She’s not stupid, so I find it hard to believe that she is totally clueless.
Francine definitely looks embarrassed that she has revealed this detail. But let’s not forget she is talking to Amanda – the fairy queen of getting people to talk. At the end here is Amanda at her best until she says that idiotic line about holding her breath…and no, I don’t think she meant it as a joke.
Not sure about the speed of this confession of hers though. I think Francine has done the time calculation. Drop at 4. She knows the location, right? So it is very unlikely that Lee is going to be able to rescue them in time. At least this is my take since I think Francine is a pessimist. I don’t think she wants to tell Amanda this in these terms. In a way I guess that means I think she is protecting Amanda – which is very sweet of her. Yes, I did just say Francine was being sweet to Amanda. Anyone cursing me out there? I do think Francine is genuinely nervous and may feel like this is it – she is going to die in a flash freezer with Amanda and 10,000 pounds of nasty Marvelous Marvin’s burgers.
Thanks for the kind words about my commercial!
I enjoyed reading your thoughts here.. yeah ‘idiotic’ last line of Amanda’s – why didn’t that bug me? lol usually they do 😉 not sure! I think it was a bad joke haaaaa..
‘the fairy queen of getting people to talk’ rofl!! that had me howling with laughter!! 🙂 too funny BJo! Francine didn’t bug you as much? fair enough! I think I was feeling similarly to Amanda.. I’d had enough of Francine’s ‘witchy’ treatment of Amanda!
Glad you laughed – happy to return for the favor for all the giggles you’ve given me! 🙂
I re-read my comment this morning, and am wondering if ‘idiotic’ came across as too harsh. Perhaps I should have said silly? I think my patience with this episode had worn thin because of all the nonsensical plot holes and thinking about Barry. My apologies, Amanda! You’re a better woman than I am!
I think in my book I’d rather be accused of being witchy than silly/dumb/idiotic. Perhaps that is why I am more bothered by Amanda here than Francine?
I like this moment of humanness for Francine. I agree that Amanda seems to be the kind of person other people spill their guts to, so it doesn’t seem strange that Francine’s shell cracks as soon as it does. Also, I don’t think Francine has gotten into many situations where she is so utterly helpless. If you’re used to acting, having to wait and do nothing can crack you pretty fast.
While I like the suggestions about how Francine’s family life contributed to her loner philosophy, I thought when I heard “People leave!” That there was probably an additional, specific incident where somebody let her down big time. Maybe in a romantic relationship, someone she really cared for and was ready to settle down with. Or a friend who was not as good a friend as she thought (I don’t think it was Lee in either scenario). Someone who really played up their relationship, but dropped it like a hot potato as soon as it became a liability.
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I feel like we have such an interesting contrast between Francine and Lee when you think of this scene. We know Lee didn’t have a great childhood either and he certainly had issues when he first meet Amanda. But even at the beginning he was already better at friendships than she seems to be. We know he has a close rapport with Billy and he seems more buddy-buddy with some of the agents they work with than Francine does. And he certainly showed more of a sense of humor than she has. He also was much more friendly with Amanda even on The First Time than Francine was and shows more light moments.
It just goes to show that just because you have a crappy past you don’t need to let it turn you into a crappy person.
I really enjoy this scene and have enjoyed everyone’s comments. I’m going be make an unpopular comment: I think Amanda is a little bit silly and obvious when they first work out that they’re stuck and there is no way out. Francine, on the other hand, gets on with trying to find a way out. I completely understand Francine getting snippy with Amanda and don’t loathe her – I’d also have got irritated with Amanda at this moment. Stating the obvious and panicking is not going to help. Francine is ratty but she stays calm.
I don’t find Francine’s outburst about not being able to relyon anyone to be sudden given the context- she’s cold, Amanda is being irritating (IMO), they don’t have the best relationship, and they’re in a life-threatening situation. Her ‘blowing a fuse’ threshold is lower than usual. The same as when things go wrong when Billy is a ‘rogue elephant’ in Reach for the Sky, and she gets grouchy.
I totally agree with Khell that this scene is key to understanding Francine. I get the feeling that she grew up with ‘absent’ parents – physically there but not emotionally, or with demanding careers (or at least her mother was worked the social circuit while Francine was left with the nanny) with little emotional energy left for little Francine. Maybe an only child too?
Oh, I definitely see Francine as an only child. Also agree with the absent parents. Maybe several nannies not just one so she learned right from the start “don’t get too attached, people are bound to leave”. Depending on her parents’ social status I also wouldn’t consider it too far-fetched if little Francine had been sent off to a good boarding school at the appropriate age – what is it, around 11 or 12? (But that’s just what I’ve come up with and stitched together in that weird little mind of mine … 😉 )
Maybe boarding school at 7 years old? I’m starting to feel weepy for thinking of poor little Francine, alone, crying into her pillow in the cold dormitory….
Oh, in my version, there wasn’t much time for crying since she had to get back at her nemesis, Chloe Vanderbilt. 😉 You know, her (female) version of Phillip’s Billy Geisman (the boy who always wins at everything at school) …
Hey, let her cry at 7 years old; and then take on the bully at 10. By then, she’ll have developed that hard protective shell we see in SMK.
Well Francine I don’t know about.. but Iwsod is not crying into her pillow! – Iwsod has been able to exchange her crappy, quite new computer for a completely brand new computer! LOL..
I’ve sat my new computer down and given it a good talking to. It needs to toughen up and prepare itself for vast quantities of Lee Stetson images 😉 and I expect it to cope! 🙂
Fingers crossed my computer can handle it!..
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Hello Computer_Iwsod v3.0! Behave yourself 🙂
Name it Amanda, it should do just fine. Glad you got that sorted.
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Oh goodie Iwsod has a new way into the vortex and down to the rabbit hole! Does this mean more swoonworthiness awaits?! Gleefully grabs her chocolate and heads down the bunny hole
Congrats on the new circuitry, iwsod! I hope it is drool-proof and comes with a protective case for when you swoon-thud on it! 🙂
Thanks Learjet, Morley, Jule and BJo for the computer well wishes..
there is definitely more swoony Lee to come..
Hmm.. maybe I should give it a quick test 🙂
LOL calling it Amanda would work.. but it may be confusing! 🙂
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Did it make it through? Is it still working?
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Hiya Bjo! Success 🙂 Yippeeeeee!
I’m just about to publish the next post now.. sorry I was reading comments.. soo many great thoughts guys!
Whoooooaaaa! Which episode is that dreamy picture from??? Times are a’changing, maybe? He is looking mighty fine.
yes, but his tie is crooked 😉
No it’s not crooked.. it’s just with Lee lookin that good we can’t see straight 🙂
You got it Raffie! 🙂 glad you enjoyed my little errr computer test.. yes that’s right. it was in aid of testing my computer.
I should do that more often 😉
no likes for Lee I a tux? I’m shocked – tee hee.. but then.. it would require operating your mouse after viewing this image so actually.. no.. I get it! 🙂
What’s not to like? It’s just hard to function or be coherent when you come across this pic. You find yourself staring for an inordinate amount of time and then you try to remember what it was you came here for and what you wanted to say. You end up trying to scroll away but still can’t because you are so mesmerized so you have to go away for awhile to regain your composure and try to come back. When you do come back you have to cover your eyes till you get to where you can comment and you promise to be lucid so that when you finish commenting you can go back and stare some more. That about sums it up for me. Back to staring.
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I love it..
Professional Lee Stetson observer, kiwismh, checking in. 😎 Best to treat it like looking directly into the sun. Not for untrained professionals but if you must look, protect your eyes so you’re not blinded by the handsome.
Professional eh.. who’s paying you Kiwismh? I want that job too!!! 🙂
very true.. there must be a gap in the market for Lee Stetson viewing glasses.. hmm.. maybe we could attach them to Jule’s signature helmet?! 🙂
LOL! Can I apply for that job Kiwismh too? Pleeeease! Lots of chocolate in the rabbit hole waiting….;)
OH. MY. GAWD! * THUD! *
Glad your back!! Maybe your last computer was having trouble navigating all the plot holes in this episode.
Like this, learjet! I think I may have made an unpopular comment too. I’m in the I like Francine better than Amanda in this scene boat with you.
Hey BJo! Great to see you went on another JWWM binge!! oh boy.. Have enjoyed reading your comments they’ve made me lol numerous times while I was out and reading them on my phone tee hee.. the person I was wit was wondering what I was doing! My secret 😉
Hey this comment.. where you say ‘unpopular comment’ – ‘unpopular’ sounds negative!
how about: ‘divergent’ orrrrr ‘unusual’ or ‘different’ or whoooo ‘maverick’!? 🙂
and different views are never negative 🙂 I like em’!! 🙂 Please keep them coming!
I have no idea if I said it or not I think it may forgotten to add that I too was not thrilled with Amanda’s sudden helplessness – what do we do? Hmmm.. maybe Amanda was thinking that with Francine she should let Francine take the lead well and truly.. but.. Francine didn’t want to lead Amanda anywhere other than home! 😉
Hi iwsod! I see what you mean about the connotation of unpopular sounding negative, as it can mean not liked, yes? I think when I wrote it I was not thinking negatively just that I might be the only one on the blog who had that opinion? And I’m okay with that. One of the things that I love about this blog is that unpop…oops…divergent opinions are welcome 😉 lol I feel safe to post them. Even though others may not share that opinion and they may scratch their heads and wonder how on earth I could think that way. I think that’s a tribute to you and the tone you’ve set for the blog!
It’s so weird how things happen. BB just posted a pic on his Facebook page of him and Martha Smith as he ran into her unexpectedly at an event this past weekend. He captioned it “Scarecrow and Francine”. Kind of ironic considering the episode we’re currently walking through.
lol well the conclusion is obvious (at least to iwsod who is delusional) – BB reads JWWM! 🙂
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I have to say – MS is still looking fantastic!
They both look awesome! 🙂
Sometime when people around you are changing and evolving, you feel it even if you don’t understand those changes and its threatening to your sense of self and place in the scheme of life. I get the feeling that is what Francine has been running up against with both Lee and Amanda.
Ok, starting this over again since I accidentally closed the browser window … 😉
This scene here’s probably my most favourite one in the whole show because, imho, it’s essential if you want to “get” Francine. (Ok, this is gonna take a while – you might want to grab some popcorn … ;)) There’s certain indicators in the show that have me convinced Francine’s background is at least upper middle class, maybe even upper class (can’t cook, can’t clean, family had a cook, went to Sarah Lawrence, expensive taste in clothes, her whole demeanor). Also, she seems to be considerably less close to her family than Amanda. Francine’s mother has been mentioned once, at this point, we know nothing about her father, yet. Whereas we know a lot about Dotty and how close she and Amanda are (doesn’t Dotty mention somewhere how Amanda always used to come to her with all her little problems as a kid?).
So – Amanda grew up knowing she could always rely on her mother to be there for her if she had a problem or needed to talk about something. As for Francine – well, since you don’t just wake up one day and just out of the blue decide you can’t rely on people any longer it probably took a while for her to come to the conclusion that she’s better off fending for herself (so she can’t be let down – “left” – by anyone). It wasn’t just once that no one was there when she needed someone – it very likely happened more often than that. So the basic difference between those two iis: Amanda generally trusts people – Francine doesn’t. (Maybe she’d like to but she just can’t because, according to her experience, people can’t be relied on.)
I’d also assume that Francine’s using her mean comments and snarkiness to (maybe subconsciously) keep people at a distance. If you don’t let anyone get close, they can’t leave you, right? Because they weren’t really THERE in the first place. So if you’re mean and cold and haughty, only those who’re really serious about you will stay. I might be completely off here but I see her as someone who’s got about a ton (or so) of acquaintances – but very few people she’d consider real friends (Billy and Lee are probably among them).
Francine’s comment about not expecting Lee to come to the rescue can be interpreted in two ways, imho:
She knows Lee will try to come and rescue them but she’s also aware Lee doesn’t know where they are and that he’s got a more important matter to deal with right now: the drop and catching Marty and Carla. So even though he’ll try his best to come and get them, he might be too late.
She’s starting to doubt whether she still can rely on Lee in the same way she used to. He’s changing – she’s not sure about the “new” Lee. Is he still her friend? Can he still be her friend while being friends with Amanda – even though she doesn’t like Amanda or at least acts like she doesn’t?
Uh, sorry for another essay-length comment … 🙂 Just let me conclude with: Yup, I definitely think Amanda and Francine could become friends. It’ll just take a lot of patience from Amanda to prove to Francine she’s not one of those people who “leave” – which probably means she’ll have to put up with more attempts from Francine to drive her away. And if she can get through that, it’ll probably still be a kinda complicated friendship.
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I love all of what you say Khell, and so agree with you. I wish sometimes that we had been able to learn more about Francine. I think that even with whatever people Francine did have in her life when she was younger, she probably still felt alone. I get the impression that there were pretty high expectations of her and that she worked hard to live up to those expectations. And quite possibly was not necessarily lauded for what she accomplished. Perhaps that is why she has some issues with Amanda. Here she has worked hard to get to where she has in the Agency and Amanda sort breezes in and is able to develop a partnership with the one and only Scarecrow whereas Francine keeps being shunted to the side.
Lee and Francine probably developed a bond/friendship based on the fact that they both were so self-reliant and just as you said Francine won’t let herself get close to anyone for fear of loss, Lee was the same way in dealing with the losses he’s had. Sometimes I wonder if Francine isn’t so much bothered by Amanda as she is jealous of Lee because he has Amanda and deep down she can see how much that has not only changed him, but helped him to become a more whole person.
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I think Francine’s jealous of Amanda on two different levels. First, on a professional level. There comes that ordinary housewife, just waltzing in one day – and she gets all the great, interesting, important assignments, together with Scarecrow, the Agency’s finest. Whereas Francine, who’s had to work hard to get where she is now is basically stuck in the office almost all the time. Yah, I’d be annoyed at that, too.
And second, I think she’s also kinda jealous – although she’d probably rather die than ever admit it – of Amanda’s ability to trust in people and rely on people and make friends basically everywhere she goes. And by no other merit than just being herself (yes, Amanda’s really that nice a person!) – Amanda being Amanda is usually enough for people to start liking her, like e.g. Emily or Penny or T.P.. I’d say somewhere deep, deep down Francine wishes she could be just a bit more like Amanda – but she can’t. She also probably thinks that if people could see how she really is, they wouldn’t like her at all. (Which, of course, ends in Francine keeping people at a distance because it’s not so bad if they leave when she MAKES them leave.)
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Reading all these comments is making me wonder if Francine doesn’t really like Francine sometimes, but feels like she’s powerless to change the parts of herself that she doesn’t like? I think she thinks Amanda likes herself as she is and she is jealous of that.
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That’s an interesting thought, valeriejw! Francine needs her own “Amanda” now that Lee has his!
Whooo Spin off! Spin off!
I know you have a real affinity for Francine’s character Knell, so I was looking forward to reading your thoughts in particular!
Wow.. your most favourite in the whole show huh.. so this is the big ‘Francine’ scene.. nothing more ahead?? (don’t tell me!!) I’ll be looking forward to maybe learning more about Francine in future.. I don’t really remember what’s ahead for her.. which I like!
Very interesting to read of your background picture of Francine that you’ve formed Knell.
She did have a housekeeper who use to make amazing streudel didn’t she.. but maybe even middle class families could have housekeepers.
Yes Sarah Lawrence. lol I lived near Sarah Lawrence for a year once and didn’t even realise it!
I’m feeling I need to go back and revisit what we’ve seen of Francine so far..
I might try and go back to a few of her big moments and I’ll come back to chat about it – I’m not certain based on what I’m currently remembering that Francine was raised upper-class or super rich.. I’m wondering if it’s possible she was raised middle-class and surrounded by the super rich.. and her parents (sending her to Sarah Lawrence) may have wanted Francine to ‘move up’..
This may explain Francine’s loathing of the suburban life (and all that Amanda represents), I wonder if she has wanted to separate herself from that and instead class herself with the super wealthy..
As I just said in a comment – At this point I still see Francine as quite a mystery.. but we are starting to see more and more 🙂
and I’ve really enjoyed reading your thoughts on Francine Knell – and everyone!!! thanks for sharing guys 🙂
Love this, khell! I like Francine too and wish we got to see more of her. I just wish she had different taste in clothing, jewelry, and hairstyles. I’m a tomboy (still) so I wish we got to see Francine looking like that at least once. But I’m sure she wouldn’t be caught dead in anything that could be considered tomboyish so I’ll have to just keep wishing.
Anyway, I agree with all of what you suggest for Francine’s upbringing. I think her parents had very high expectations for her, but were also probably very cold with her and didn’t show too much emotion. I agree that she probably went off to a posh boarding school and didn’t get much love there either.
Francine is a fascinating character to think on. I think I like her because I can relate more to her than to Amanda. Her snarkiness is unattractive, but in my mind I can find ways to understand it and sometimes even justify it.
Poor Francine her little world is being rocked big time and I don’t just mean the idea of impending death. Lee picking Amanda over a seasoned agent….ending up trapped with no prospect of escape….feel a tiny bit sorry for Francine (but not too much). I can’t decide whether Francines little tirade is about Lee specifically or about her life in general as she faces the possibility of death in the face. Kudos for Amanda being the bigger person and reigning in their argument.
I think Carla’s seriously contemplating for a moment putting Barry in the freezer too! 😀
What Amanda has over both Francine and Lee is the ability to adapt quickly to any situation and focus on the practical. Lee is getting better at both these things. Sure both he and Francine would consider themselves able to adapt to any scenario but I think we’ve seen throughout the series that Amanda’s broader experience of the everyday realities of life and the normal/ordinary has prepared her much better for many of the crazy situations they find themselves in.
In regards to the timing on the freezer. Didn’t Carla say when they were taking the tour that it would take about 20 minutes to flash freeze the beef patties? Maybe that’s the time gap between 4:30 and 4:45.
I think Francine has been giving sme thought to what she has observed in Lee and in his relationship with Amanda. I don’t think she could actually fathom the reality that exists between them, but I think it has caused some of her lodged in ideas about herself, her place in the world and in relationships to come lose just a tad and here we get to see a bit of it come out. I think we have mentioned before that Francine must have felt that lee was a bit of an ally in her life as a hardened self reliant to agent and I think she is wondering why he is aligning himself with this simple housewife more and more. What on earth does he see in Amanda and what is it about Amanda that has caused him to change? Has he changed? I think it is those thoughts and her own prejudices against Amanda that motivates her comments here. She does have some experiences with Amanda that have already shaken up some of her preconceived ideas about her (LOTP), but I think being stuck with her in this situation now causes her to let that little bit of herself slip out. And Amanda, as she always does, handles this with her steadfast kindness and level headedness. If Francine doesn’t begin to see what is occurring between Lee and Amanda and why after this then I think she isn’t human. I think she can see it, but she still isn’t sure about what to make of it and how the fact that Lee has changed in such a way will affect Francine’s own view of herself and her expectations of life and relationships for herself. It is hard to continue to use a script to describe your life experiences when another person who previously used the same lines exchanges them for ones you had given up hope on long ago.
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Indeed Morley! The changes Francine has noticed in Lee (and even commented on earlier in this ep) would have given Francine plenty of Food for Thought! I agree she can’t fathom it, but she is becoming more and more aware of it, and maybe more and more unsettled by it..
Yes the world order is changing – and Francine is all disorientated by it. things aren’t happening the way they she expected now!
I agree yes Lee was Francine’s ally good way to put it. I think he still is, but I would say he is now more Amanda’s ally than Francine’s – but he’d still be there for Francine if she needs him.. It’s just.. Amanda is special 🙂
Francine’s prejudices about Amanda coming through here? very true..
lol I pretty much agree with all this – I also think that ‘the fact that Lee has changed in such a way will affect Francine’s own view of herself and her expectations of life and relationships for herself.’ – I was struck by how similar a situation this was for Amanda – similar to previous experiences with Lee of him trying to push her out of the spy biz or not wanting to acknowledge they are a team – Francine and Lee are not exactly the same characters sure, but they have similar issues..
Lee and Francine – again I’m seeing them like they are siblings.. before Amanda came on the scene they were like two peas in a pod probably.. partners in crime – both of them playing the field, playing hard and working hard.. neither having true intimate relationships or trusting anyone.. but both of them deep down longing for that kind of connection.
Both were snobs who had never accepted the mediocre life of the suburbs, both were interested in high class living..
Francine was more of a name dropper though.. I think Lee is more egalitarian than Francine.. and loved (as a brother would)to rub her nose in her snobbishness, even though Lee had his own distain for suburban life and ‘normal’. Oh dear I could do a whole post on this.. sorry guys you get to read enough of me in my posts.. I’ll try and sum this up – iwsod! get on with it!
Lee and Francine share very similar issues IMHO – at this stage I don’t feel I know enough about Francine’s background to explore her finer details though.. it’s clear the woman has attachment issues! But what it stems from is not obvious – as we aren’t given the detail on Francine so far that we have been on Lee.
Here, this outburst is the first little crack in the Francine mystery – what has caused that hard shell of hers? I don’t know. I can speculate plenty though 🙂 but I think for me the point here is – Francine is a mystery to Amanda.. and here for the first time Amanda really truly gets to see real Francine, not spy Francine (I’d say her codename only she didn’t get one did she? Mothership? whahahaha). Just like we’ve commented numerous times about seeing Lee and not scarecrow.
I think again, like Lee, Francine is longing to be known and understood and to trust – but she simultaneously pushes it away the whole time she longs for it.. There’s an interior struggle going on inside Francine, and for once, in this scene the I want to trust part wins out.. hooray Francine.. welcome back to the human race 🙂
okay enough.. sorry this is such a ramble!
I guess Amanda is just that type of person that people open up too and spill their deep dark secrets too.. Francine’s statement of ‘people leave’ reminds me of Lee’s “partners take a bullet for you’ speech in ‘the first time’.
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I was thinking the exact same thing, Cindy. Both Lee and Francine seemed to just let it all out to Amanda. It was like they were both caught off guard and just couldn’t seem to help themselves. Then they both quickly realized what they had done and clammed up. It must be something about Amanda. It’s interesting that these revelations both seem to come at a time when they are sort of pushing Amanda away. For so long these two have pushed others away and those others have allowed it. Amanda does not go quietly into that good night and has stuck around. I think that given enough time, Francine would have become very good friends with Amanda. Amanda could show Francine, in much the same way she’s shown Lee, that she is not one who would leave and is a great and supportive friend.
Amanda continues to surprise both Lee and Francine, however, Francine just hasn’t spent as much time with her. In LOTP she saw Amanda in a new way and even admitted that she was surprised. I think that even though they are in a freezer this situation might be a way to thaw the coldness Francine may feel for Amanda. More food for thought.
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