13/16 Season Three, Episode 9: J.Edgar’s Ghost-Scarecrow and Mrs King

Hiya! I want to keep this episode moving at this point as much as I can.. I’ve managed to knock out another post…so with no delay.. we keep on walking through J.Edgar’s ghost -whooo that sounds creepy!! I’m not walking through ghosts!!!!! umm.. walking through the episode titled J.Edgar’s ghost!

Nick collects his van and heads back to the dumpster to collect the files he hid.. He finds there’s a crowd of people blocking his path – there’s been an accident of some kind and a policeman
JEG.avi_002100567waves Nick on – Nick can’t access them. Hooray! finally luck seems to go in the goodies’ direction! suffer Nick!
Love the dialogue of the arguing over the ‘flippin road’ whahahaa..
Man in suit: I was pulling around this… 
… this oversized garbage can, when that maniac came barrelling down the middle of the alley.
JEG.avi_002097263Truck driver/ Maniac: I’m telling you—this guy was driving like he owned the flippin’ road.
Man in suit: The flipping road, as this Neanderthal man so quaintly calls it … has the right of way.

[ouch! what a zinger! Winking smile tee hee]
Truck driver/ Neanderthal man (at same time, off camera): Has two! Count.
[as they argue we see the pension reports are still in the large dumpster]
JEG.avi_002102068… Two lanes. He wanted both of them! Or maybe he can’t count.

[whooo hoooo take that!! now that’s a flippin zinger!!!! Winking smile ]I love that grown men say ‘flippin’ on smk! Smile 

The policeman waves Nick on more furiously as we hear the men continue arguing..
Man in suit (to the police): Can you read my lips? Read my lips.
First police officer (waving):
Go round!
JEG.avi_002108074Nick is thwarted by a little roadside barney.. a flippin maniac and a guy who can’t count.. thank goodness for their poor driving!! Smile and bad tempers!!

Next up, Amanda goes to check up on Agnes.. We find them standing by Agnes’ door..
Agnes: Well, it’s, it’s really sweet of you, Amanda, but I… I’m just trying to rise above this. You know?
JEG.avi_002119185Amanda: Sure, I understand, Agnes…
[It was a lovely thought of Amanda’s to stop by and check Agnes is okay.. and give her some company if she’d like..]
…I just thought, you know, maybe I’d drop by and be sure you weren’t lonesome, or anything.
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Agnes: Well, I am…
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[I think it’s fantastic that Agnes is so honest here – brutally honest] … I’m… lonesome, and I’m angry, and I feel ugly, and-
JEG.avi_002134200Amanda:
Ohhhh! Agnes! Come on!
JEG.avi_002136603JEG.avi_002138405[Dare I say it? yeah.. I dare.. this might be just me.. but this is one of the only times in the whole show where I wanted to slap Amanda! She went there to offer support to Agnes. Agnes finally opens up and is honest with Amanda about what she’s going through – and Amanda cuts her off and IMHO judges her. ‘Oh Agnes come on’ – is like saying – don’t be silly! You shouldn’t feel that way! – telling someone how to feel is really disrespectful – and I find this kind of conduct from Amanda really out of character – she is usually very sensitive to the needs of others, very compassionate, very gracious and very careful about what she says in response to people when they are unloading and being honest with her. Here? I find Amanda disregards Agnes, brushes off her feelings. Amanda may find it silly that Agnes feels ugly – but Agnes just had her heart ripped out – she can feel however she flippin wants to.. without the judgements.. I think this attitude of Amanda’s toward Agnes also fuels the audience’s tendency (and my own in previous viewings) to look down on Agnes as being weak – I think it was very brave of Agnes to speak openly of her pain here. okay the ugly comment is a little over the top but I cut Agnes some slack – when Nicky loved her, she felt beautiful – now she finds Nicky didn’t love her at all – and everything is turned on it’s head.. Maybe a man had never made her feel beautiful before.. the world is not so kind to women with the pressure to be beautiful. Nope.. I can’t drum up any disapproval of Agnes here.. I think she’s doing the best she can.. all things considered!
Nope.. this is not the usual Amanda in this scene!!
Agnes:
But, I’ll be all right…
JEG.avi_002138705
[Yes because she just started to tell Amanda how she was not alright and Amanda cut her off!]
…I just have to start… and I know you can’t do it for me… [lol I’ll say she can’t!!!]
… but I appreciate it.
JEG.avi_002144411[I think Agnes just wants Amanda gone!!!! I think she knows the intention was good.. but..
frankly, I can’t blame her]
Amanda: Okay…
JEG.avi_002146813JEG.avi_002148915
…Call me if I can do anything.
JEG.avi_002151017
Agnes: I will.

JEG.avi_002153119
[not!!! Agnes is already feeling hurt, Amanda’s reaction to her honesty only compounded her feelings of loneliness IMHO – I think Amanda is a gorgeous woman, and has never known what it’s like to question whether any man will find her attractive (like I imagine Agnes has)- Learjet made great comments (in post 8) about how Amanda is very different to Agnes with her cheerleader past?! Those comments now seem to be spot on to me!! Smile ]
Amanda: Okay. I’ll let myself out.  Now you just take it easy.
JEG.avi_002156122It is lovely that Amanda cares for Agnes, I am sure she does.. but.. I just don’t think she gets it.

After Amanda has walked out, Agnes lets out a massive sign
JEG.avi_002161227
and slumps her shoulders
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– maybe unhappy at how Amanda’s ‘comforting’ made her feel – while well meaning (there is no doubt) it just stirred up  a whole lot of discontent and hurt in Agnes.. and at the very least – Agnes is left alone to feel very unhappy about the current state of her life.

BTW- I think without the pearls and glasses and stuff Agnes is gorgeous.. but.. I get that Agnes doesn’t know she is.. and Nicky’s ‘Love’ made her feel beautiful. While it’s great if a woman can see for herself her own beauty  – I can’t blame a woman for finding the love of a man made her feel beautiful (sadly, this ‘love’ was just an illusion-and Agnes is still grappling with this reality).

Amanda get in her car and drives away..  and Agnes gets a call from Nick.. his call goes to the answering machine, and Agnes is shocked it’s him..
JEG.avi_002189155
she listens in – riveted.. with her hand on the receiver poised to pick up the phone.
Nick (over answer phone): Agnes, it’s Nick. [no more cupcake?!]
I can’t apologize for what happened, but I can explain why….
JEG.avi_002192158
…It involves the security of the country, Agnes, on the highest levels…
[hmm interesting, this is actually all true! ]
…But it’s almost over now, and… when it is, we won’t have to live like this anymore…
JEG.avi_002203269

Agnes lets go of the phone receiver.. not having to live like this anymore has stunned her.. Pow!
JEG.avi_002204170I think from Agnes’ expression here she is wondering – nooooo can there still be a hope for us?!
Nick (continues, over answer phone):
Uhh… there’s just one more thing that needs to be done, and you’re the only one I can trust.
JEG.avi_002208975

Uh oh.. ‘the only one I can trust’ – that seems to be the part that hooks Agnes and gives Nick the opportunity to reel her in.. Oh nooooo..
Nick caught her at a very vulnerable moment.. hurt, alone.. and.. she’s starting to wonder if she gave up on him too easily (now she no longer has smoke in her lungs and can breath again Winking smile )

After so many months with her, Nick has become expert at manipulating Agnes, he has learned her well  – whereas Agnes never really got to know Nick and is totally unprepared to resist. It’s not a very fair fight!

I’ve always thought at this point – how could she possibly still believe him??!!! What an idiot!!! but actually.. this time?? at this point?? I’m actually shocking myself here – I can see why she falls for it.
I think the ‘bargaining’ stage of that grieving process has kicked in- Maybe if I do this, Nicky will love me, or will change his tune.. maybe he’s in trouble and he needs me? or maybe I can convince Nick to give the files back.. or heck maybe if I do this Nick and I can run off together and start a new life! [she’s so unhappy with her current one – this would be a temptation.] Nick is pure evil.. like the devil in Agnes’ ear.. 

I think it was right of Amanda to not leave Agnes alone – she is too vulnerable with Nicky still out there at this point – but Amanda kinda blew the chance to be quietly present.. you know what I mean?!

Speaking of Amanda.. we find her driving along the road..
Amanda shakes her head and says to herself: She’s gonna need somebody to talk to!
JEG.avi_002215648She does a u-turn and heads back to Agnes’.
No don’t go talk to Agnes.. She tried talking to you and got an “ohhhh Agnes! come on!!” yeah not happy with your skills at this moment Amanda! Winking smile
Amanda drives back to Agnes’ home and sees Agnes get in her car and leave
JEG.avi_002228495
JEG.avi_002231798– she gives a disapproving look
JEG.avi_002232699 and Amanda says out loud to herself – Ohhh Agnes! where are you going??!  JEG.avi_002233600
Amanda gives another disapproving expression and the scene ends there.. with Amanda following Agnes..
JEG.avi_002239305
Call me crazy, but that is a little condescending! She treats Agnes like she is a child!
So Agnes isn’t allowed to leave her home Amanda? she’s a grown woman.. and Amanda has no idea she is going to meet Nick, there is no call for that tone from Amanda…
I’m so surprised at Amanda here – but the ‘I’m disapproving of what silly little Agnes is up to’ tone is very irritating to me!!!
Heck maybe you all don’t mind it.. and heck maybe I’m the only person who has an issue with Amanda here! It soooo rare that I ever think this of Amanda’s treatment of another that I’m really surprised by it myself! And yet.. I still feel the same way.. go on! interrupt me and say ‘Ohhhh Iwsod! Come on!!!’ tee hee.. nah.. leave me to my rants.. and you can go ahead and have a rant of your own! I’d love to hear what you and what everyone thinks of this part of the episode..

Is there a reason for Amanda’s attitude here? Amanda can’t know at this point that Agnes is headed toward Nicky… But I can’t help but think of how loyal Amanda was towards Lee when everyone else thought he was dirty.. and he hit Amanda!  Poor Agnes, there’s the slightest chance that the man she loves might be that man – and not some monster – she’s going to go find out and find out what he is once and for all!!! I can understand her need to do that –even if I wish it weren’t true.. but bargaining is pretty powerful! maybe she misunderstood? maybe she can help him.. he trusts her! he needs her!!

Funny, I’m finding the walk through the episode at times doesn’t always leave the plots of episodes looking very shiny and wonderful.. but for the guest stars- the walk has helped me to appreciate them more, and follow their stories more closely.. it has given me a new appreciation for their journey – which I think I was overlooking in preference for focusing solely on Lee’s jeans err I mean Lee and Amanda’s journey – you know?? Has anyone else experienced this?
I felt the same way with Jean in Vigilante Mothers, and James Brand (aka Potts!). For an episode that I don’t class as a favourite, I am enjoying thinking more about Agnes’ journey.. and I now see her as much less of a bad cliché!
What about you?
[what’s even funnier – there is no Lee in this post.. and I didn’t notice! eek.. don’t want to make a habit out of that! Smile ]
Anyway, I can’t wait to hear what you all make of this! byee for now!!!

16 responses to “13/16 Season Three, Episode 9: J.Edgar’s Ghost-Scarecrow and Mrs King

  1. I’ve always felt for Agnes in this episode. There was a time in my life when I had a lot of “superficial” friends and didn’t really feel connected with anyone. I could easily have fit in her shoes. However, I was fortunate enough to find a mentor who gently infused me with some self-confidence and helped me see my worth as an individual. Agnes so desperately needs that type person right now, and Amanda (who genuinely cares and is usually encouraging) isn’t providing that right now. We know she can – look how she dealt with Conrad.

    I’m not really mad at Amanda, just frustrated that she’s dealing with Agnes differently. If she knew her enough to know she “jumped at doors,” I would expect her to react differently. Perhaps Amanda is remembering her own feelings at the breakup of her marriage, and realizes the need for Agnes to be alone. Yet, as she drives away, she probably remembers that she would have liked someone she felt would actually listen so she turns around.

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  2. I’ll weigh in and say that I found myself agreeing with what you said about Amanda, iwsod. I’ve always felt this scene was a bit of a clunker and didn’t make much sense. I think Amanda isn’t acting like the Amanda I know here.

    This may be totally off the mark, but I think Amanda is adjusting to her professional growth and how that is affecting her personally. Someone mentioned that Amanda’s reaction was a bit Lee-like and I would agree. So perhaps she is trying to be more agent-like than Amanda-like here in dealing with Agnes? I think had she realized this, she would have stuck around and been more compassionate toward Agnes and acted more like some of us would have expected her to act. I think Amanda is trying her best here, it’s just that she’s on a continuous growth curve herself and perhaps has lost a little bit of her original self that we were expecting?

    I love Agnes’ character and I hate Agnes’ character. She has qualities that I admire and qualities I can’t stand or have no respect for. But she is a pretty woman, I think. Wish my eyes were as blue as hers.

    And I agree about appreciating the guest characters more. I didn’t really pay much attention to them or think about them much before this blog, so I do appreciate all the time and attention we can give them here.

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  3. It has definitely been a while. Needless to say several things happened all at once and most of them were not good things. Suffice it to say that Christmas vacation has begun and I have spent the last couple of hours catching up on the walk through this episode. Hey, Iwsod, thanks for the shout-out in post 11. I’ve missed this blog.

    This episode was never one of my favorite ones, but I’m noticing some things having just read through several posts at one time. The episode itself is just so up and down and all over the place, kind of a roller coaster ride, but maybe that was the point. Lee and Amanda are adjusting to some changes in their partnership as Amanda has grown in confidence and ability and they have to be noticing the other changes that are occurring in how they are viewing their changing friendship and how it too is transitioning.

    This can all be viewed as well through the changes that Agnes is going through. She has lived a somewhat lonely existence, goes out just to be around people and because she was longing for companionship she fell for someone whose expressions of love have only been an illusion. Isn’t this somewhat like Lee’s life before Amanda?

    The heartbreak and devastation that Agnes is feeling is due to the realization that what she had wasn’t real, it wasn’t right and it was not going to work. She decides to give Nick one last chance in hopes that maybe it will work out. Can’t we also see some parallels to what Amanda must have gone through when things didn’t work out in her marriage?

    I think back to the patience comment of Amanda’s. Throughout this whole series that word patience or the concept of it has come out several times. Lee mentioned that Emily taught him patience and control, but it was something that we rarely saw. At this point in looking at Amanda and Lee’s journey it has been one filled with patience (and also a bit of long-suffering for us fans). Lee has been patient with Amanda and she likewise with him and their patience is now starting to lead somewhere.

    In this one scene, however I do wish Amanda would have taken her own advice to Lee about being patient. While, I understand that there is a case that needs to be solved and possibly some urgency in solving it, there have been several mistakes made that were not Agnes’s doing. She has been working hard to help out on this case, so I think she is due some “poor, poor pitiful me” time. I do like how she was honest with herself and with Amanda.

    Okay, I’ve rambled enough. I hope this makes some sense. I’ve been out of practice. I hope all is well with everyone and am wishing you all a wonderful Christmas!!

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    • I’ve missed you Valerie! Sorry to hear lots of things went wrong at once 😦 I hope things are a bit better for you now.. or at least I hope stopping by here and catching up on a few posts gave you a respite from the stresses of life!

      Loved your idea that in some ways Agnes is like Lee was when Amanda met him. Searching for a real connection..
      everybody gets lonely 😉

      Out of practice?! you’re a natural – no practice needed 😉

      Yes lovely observation about all the ‘patience’ that’s floating around 😉 they are beginning to reap the rewards of the patience that they have shown towards one another – patience builds trust.. (IMHO) and it is a fabulous foundation for them to build this next phase of their relationship on..
      I call this the dating without calling it dating phase! 😉

      And.. if I haven’t already spelled it out – I think this episode comes before Sour grapes.. but.. after Utopia Now.. bye!!!

      Merry Christmas/ Happy Holidays everyone!

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      • Thanks, Iwsod! It’s good to be back. Things are getting better. It’s good to have this Christmas vacation to vegetate for a while.

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  4. I took Amanda’s response totally differently. I felt like she would have continued on (had not Agnes jumped in to cut her off) to tell Agnes she has every reason to be angry and she is NOT ugly. (And I agree Iwsod, Agnes sans the librarian persona is a very pretty lady.) I’ve never been able to let someone call themselves ugly without countering with the beautiful points that I see in them.

    I also don’t have much issue with Amanda’s “Oh Agnes, where are you going?” When people are in fragile states of mind, they do bizarre things. I see her question as less an indictment on Agnes as a commentary on her experience with distraught people, who can be very self-destructive. Perhaps Amanda worried she was suicidal and headed for a bridge. Perhaps Amanda felt Agnes was so angry that she was going to find Nicky and confront him. Or perhaps I am just emotionally shallow and delight in playing devil’s advocate 🙂

    As a random comment that I noticed since this came up on the treadmill circuit today, the Agnes person that gets into the VW bug to go meet Nicky is definitey an imposter actor! I don’t mind doubles but sometimes it seems that whoever casted the sub didn’t think beyond the clothing.

    Also, I happen to love the multi-color wide-striped sweater that Amanda is wearing. LOL, as baggy as it is, it’s still tucked into the waistband 80’s style!.

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    • Playing my thoughts out a little further, not only do I feel like Agnes cut Amanda off before Amanda could give her some support, but the reason that Amanda turned around is because she realized that Agnes would need to talk in spite of her trying to put on the brave upper lip earlier. I guess I’m not usually the one defending Amanda, but in this case I have no issues with her, and I don’t see her as being insensitive.

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  5. Melissa Robertson

    Amanda does seem out of character with not giving her normal listening ear to Agnes. There are a lot of people like that in real life, who think they can make you feel better by saying something when they should have just kept their mouths shut and listened.

    I’ve never really cared for Amanda in this episode. For me I always felt like before this episode Amanda didn’t even know that Agnes existed, but she knew that it was out of character for her to be hooked up with Cross, that she jumped at her own shadow. A lot of assumptions on Amanda’s part. But maybe Lee is rubbing off on her, he knows everyone in DC and the spy biz and Amanda now knows what’s out of character for a person. I guess it’s a way to keep the story moving 😉

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  6. I’m all for Amanda in this scene. I see Agnes as beginning to indulge in some gratuitous self pity here, so I like that Amanda gives her a small dose of some “tough love”. Harden up Agnes. You’re not going to have much of a life if you’re so easily bruised.

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    • Hey kiwismh – thanks for sharing your own view with us all – gosh I hope it wasn’t too irritating reading my post – I went in the complete opposite direction!

      Gratuitous self pity? Everyone is different.. I don’t see this myself – Had this scene taken place a length of time after all the events – I’d be on board with you.. but for me, given this is probably only the day after – I think it is reasonable that Agnes would need time to process and heal – this is why Amanda thought she should come over in the first place – plus it was Amanda who was saying ‘we’re talking about love! when talking about love we have to be patient!’

      Agnes was in love.. and on this viewing, I now see this as not being something she can recover from so quickly..
      Agnes doesn’t seem to have family around either.. soooo I think it’s too soon for tough love – and see Amanda dishing out tough love here as not consistent with her understanding that Agnes may be struggling, and well.. everything else I mentioned in the post – so I won’t blether on about it again 🙂

      I have thought in previous viewings oh come on Agnes get real – but this time, I’m seeing things differently.. not sure why but I am! lol..

      Of course, we are yet to truly see Agnes’ story completely unfold.. looking forward to hearing what you make of it overall kiwimsh with this different view of this scene and all!

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      • I’m thinking since this is serious Agency business and unduly wasted time and energy can cost lives or impact on national security, Amanda knows the importance of putting aside personal feelings and hurts until the situation or case has been resolved.
        “Patience” in this case I think really only referred to allowing Agnes a short respite to let Nick’s betrayal to sink in and settle before having to get on with the important business of stopping Nick.
        Amanda knows there is no more time to indulge Agnes’ hurt feelings. She has to give Agnes a bit of a shove towards putting the personal hurt aside so Agnes can focus her knowledge and experience to helping the Agency get Nick.

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        • Fair enough! This might explain somewhat why we see the scene so differently kiwismh – if I understand you correctly, you think the situation with Agnes is time sensitive – for me, the time sensitive aspect was earlier in the episode when Lee wanted to rush Agnes straight into questioning (and was reminded to be patient when talking about love).
          At this point in the episode, I’m seeing that Agnes was able to be of assistance in locating the files in the warehouse through the codes she knew and acting as bait to lure Nick out of hiding.. but that went badly – (through no fault of Agnes btw) and now Agnes is no longer seen as being able to assist.
          So I’m not seeing any rush or respite or need for tough love-at this point. I’m thinking Agnes thinks she won’t hear from Nick again.. (of course we know this is not the case! 🙂 )

          I think Amanda’s comment that when you are talking about love you have to be patient was talking specifically and in general – and it applies here also. Agnes is getting over her love for Nick.. and it takes patience..and usually, Amanda would demonstrate this in spade.. she showed patience earlier in the episode with Agnes – but even then, Amanda seemed to not really get Agnes (Amanda was talking justice and revenge, Agnes just wanted Nicky back and wasn’t ready for that kind of talk). There is no doubt Amanda cares about Agnes- but I don’t think Amanda gets Agnes!

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  7. Yep, not happy with Amanda here, but it is amazing how many people in real life do the same thing. I probably have as well, but I try really hard not too. A person has the right to their own feelings, it’s what they do with them that matters.

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    • Oh! I had prepared myself for being the only person unhappy with Amanda here! and it’s soooo unusual! Amanda is usually so great with people.. compassionate, patient.. Yes it is a mistake we have probably all made from time to time..

      Yes! Love that Cindy.. ‘it’s what we do with them that matters’.. What will Agnes do?.. get in her car and drive somewhere – oh Agnes! 😉 tee hee..

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    • Yes, I’m with you here Cindy. I agree that at some point, Agnes needed to pick herself up and get on with her life, but she lives alone, she’s not by nature a particularly open person and she needed to deal with a particularly painful form of rejection before she moved on. She chose to open up to Amanda and Amanda, IMO, didn’t handle it sensitively. If she didn’t know what to say, she should have given her a hug, not invalidated her feelings. Having said that, I’m sure I’ve also said the wrong thing in the similar situations myself. Interestingly, she handled it like Lee would (and how Lee earlier wanted to handle questioning Agnes when Amanda says Agnes needs time).
      There are part of this episode where the actress who plays Agnes irritates me, but I also feel for Agnes. I’ll go even further than iwsod and say that I think that this episode is about Agnes, rather than about Amanda or Lee or Ronson or Nick (a bit of departure from the usual SMK episode). I think it should be viewed through the Agnes lens, rather than through Amanda.

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      • whoooo loved this learjet!
        Especially your last comment about how this episode should (in your opinion) be viewed through the lens of Agnes – maybe that’s why I am now experiencing the episode so differently.. I think usually I would see things through Amanda’s or Lee’s lens – but this episode does feel very different.. there is much more scenes without Lee or Amanda..
        I think the writers tried something different with this episode.. but.. I don’t think it really works – as much as I feel for Agnes I prefer the usual smk! I guess it’s good to have a different ep from time to time!

        Exactly – Amanda didn’t handle it sensitively.. there is no question though that Amanda did want to support and help Agnes here.. and that’s why she went there in first place – and that’s typical of Amanda’s character.. but… as Melissa R said, there are a few aspects of this ep and the way Amanda sees or interacts with Agnes that don’t quite gel – maybe Agnes was a learning experience for Amanda.. and by the time we get to Sour Grapes – Amanda has mastered the skill of offering support to victims of crime, while not taking away their own autonomy and treating them like children.
        I can see this is something it could be valuable for Amanda to learn – and which would be unique to her work.. her form of comforting in her personal life would need to be different to the comforting she offers to people who are traumatised kind of thing – yep this works for me!
        What do you think?

        Awh Learjet, I’m glad to hear you feel for Agnes too – I’m finding I’ve developed a soft spot for her – like I did for Mr Brand! 🙂
        Byeee!

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