Back to the agency – and reality (for them!).. Ms Walker is on patrol… and Billy is praising Lee and Amanda for a job well done Warning- this post is Biiiig.. -Extra long workout today Raffie?
Billy: No money, no revolution.
Francine: And thanks to the information Orlando gave us, the leaders of the insurgence have been rounded up. Looks like Puerto Faro’s democracy will survive.
Amanda: I’m really glad for Orlando.
Love how the agents are pleased there will be no revolution, and Amanda is pleased for Orlando! Trust Amanda to care about the people involved as much as the political implications! bless her..
Billy: Well, that about wraps that up.
Amanda: Sir, there’s just one thing. What about the annulment?
Billy looks confused by this query of Amanda’s!!
Before he’s figured out the problem, Francine gleefully interrupts to answer her.. Lee? fleetingly looks concerned! (but covers it over)
Francine: Oh, that won’t be necessary. The marriage was technically invalid.
Amanda: Technically invalid?
Finally! Lee speaks up for the first time here..
Lee: Yeah, Amanda….
…I- I put down a false name…
[ Here.. we see Amanda almost jump in reaction to this.. this is a shock! but.. she too manages to quickly cover her reaction],
Lee continues quietly: …instead of Stetson.
[I think he regrets having to tell her that here.]
Billy: An agent has to think on his feet.
Yes Amanda.. I agree.. the spy biz is weird!
Lee: Mm-hm. I also put down a phony birthdate,…
…birthplace, address, the whole works. (I’ll say!)
Amanda: Well,… (Amanda smiles here and licks her lips..)
…then we were never really maaaaarried.
[All things considered, I think Amanda copes very well! IMHO she copes too well for me to conclude she is in love with him here.. ]
Lee smiles here and goes to respond, but Francine cuts him off! Francine: Well, not according to the laws of San Angelo.
Who tells Amanda it wasn’t a legal wedding? Lee? Nooooo! Francine!! I think that bugs me most of all Okay… how about this: Lee came up with the idea of using incorrect info for the marriage licence at the last moment – he didn’t have a chance to tell Amanda, plus, he couldn’t guarantee it wouldn’t be legal.. Then.. with Miles and Jillian caught.. Amanda was immediately flown home (lol- after changing out of her wedding dress ) – whereas Lee had to stay in San Angelo – track down Gretz and Rackam, maybe wait for Miles’ friends to show up to collect their gold and nab them too! Lee’s been busy! The next time he sees Amanda? Is in the bullpen.. and he wasn’t going to talk about it in front of Billy and Francine..
Drat! Amanda brings it up- he was hoping to avoid that but oh well.. can’t be helped..
– How’s that?? Does that make Lee seem less insensitive?? [ It makes me feel better! but.. nothing will make me feel better about Francine being the one to tell Amanda! grrrr] The script is slightly different – correct me if I’m wrong but it says something about the phoney name, address etc being standard operating procedure [like Agents get married all the time LOL!] I prefer this version with Lee thinking on his feet!
Lee doesn’t respond to Francine’s crack about not being married according to the laws of San Angelo.. other than to say: Which reminds me…
(to Amanda): Ahhhh.. Could I speak to you for a moment?
LOL, Lee’s body language here is a classic.. he actually points at Billy and Francine- as if to say- not in front of these two!! [Billy and Francine find this very interesting!!! -me too!! 😆 ]
This is significant no? This means something to Lee!
Amanda responds: Oh!!
Amanda gets up to leave and says goodbye nicely to Billy.. and then a quick bye to Francine- ROFL! my my.. Amanda is not being so ‘nice’ to Francine- love it!
Lee and Amanda leave, and Billy and Francine share an amused look.. [I agree with them: watching Lee and Amanda together is highly amusing! ]
Lee and Amanda head out into the corridor, out of the bullpen – whooo this is serious!
Lee: Ah Amanda.
Lee: ah some strange things happened on that ah….
…assignment and ummh…..
…well what I’m really trying to say is that er…. [call me crazy but it looks to me like Amanda licks her lips here I am sure she is unaware she is even doing it and I wonder if it makes this little speech of Lee’s harder ]
he abruptly stops mid sentence.. lol he’s all over the place – but his hand gestures are saying- right! Let’s be clear here! but he stops himself, wanting to be gentle with Amanda here- awh!! He earnestly wants to deal with this, get things clear and put it away – trouble is Lee – you aren’t clear about it at all! Oh Lee’s adorable here!
Amanda begins to quietly smile!
Lee lowers his voice here and continues (lol or at least tries to! ): …well what I am saying is.. is that…
[Oh my goodness.. this is the first time I’ve really focused on this tag frame for frame since getting the clear dvds! Lee is a lot more affected here than I realised!!!! ]
….was [Do you think Lee wants to say ‘Amazing’ here? ]
[here Lee pauses.. and again- goes into a trance! Just like he did after putting the ring on her finger! my goodness.. it’s like Lee is right back at that moment in his mind – poor Lee.. this is all a bit of a shock! He’s going to need some time to get his head around what’s starting to happen to him! squeeee!!!]… Amanda quietly urges him to continue on with what he’s trying to say: what?
[I never heard Amanda say that before!!! LOL!!! maybe I will hear the ‘ don’t move ‘ in Sudden Death one day!!! teee heeee!]
Lee: well it was all part of the job.
[Lee opens his hands to the heavens- like his hands are saying: what else could it have been??? like a hand shrug or something]
Amanda: I know, it was all part of the job.
[I think she wasn’t expecting anything else.. Amanda is not disappointed, she’s amused! She hadn’t been thinking it was the start of anything- even if they did share a moment.. to her that’s all it was..my theory on why? I’ll share after the tag!]
Lee: yeah and we were just..
There goes Lee with the arm waving again! fill in the blanks Lee! It’s almost like Lee can’t cope- so he is now playing a different cover: for his own benefit- till he can come to terms with what’s going on!!! …you know… playing our covers [Reeeeeeaaally well! 😉 ]
Amanda starts smiling again: I know we were playing our covers.
Lee: right… and nothing more… to it? [Love the finger pointing Lee resorts to.. dotting the question mark almost!]
Amanda: nothing more to it.
Silence.. Lee is so serious!!!
Amanda smiles at him again as they are silent…
Seems once more… Lee is much more affected by it all than Amanda! Poor Lee!!
Lee and Amanda at the same time:
Lee: so can I have my ring back?
Amanda: oh let me give you your ring back!
Amanda gets the ring I guess out of her pocket ( phew, glad to see she wasn’t wearing it! It looks like she only gives back the engagement ring- or maybe I just can’t see the wedding ring.. hmm.. )
they both laugh together
Amanda: here. and she puts the ring on his pinky!
This is too funny. in the pic above – they both lick their lips at the same time!!!
Lee responds: Awh!!!
It’s so tiny, it won’t even go all the way down his pinky! I love his ‘ awh!!’ when she puts it there.. hehehehee.. can’t help yourself Lee. Call me crazy.. but this does look the same as the ring he ends up giving her for real! I wonder if there is a fanfic about that.. he was so affected by this cover wedding he kept it- and gave it to her for real one day! LOL..but! what happened to the wedding ring?! tee hee.. I guess we are to assume it’s next to the engagement ring..
I can’t wait to hear people’s thoughts on this tag! Well, on the whole episode!!
It is very telling isn’t it.. Lee felt the need to clarify what had gone on.. he rambles when he’s nervous – a Leeramble! 😆
Amanda only having the chance to give Lee the ring back here- could confirm that they hadn’t seen each other yet since they caught all the bad guys..
So.. overall thoughts on the episode..
For me, Lee has three things he needs to work through to form a loving relationship with Amanda:
1)- How Lee views Amanda,
2)- How Lee views himself,
3)- How Lee views marriage and relationships.
All three get worked on a little in this episode! But.. Lee is still a work in progress! Lee has always dismissed Amanda as a romantic partner – She ‘isn’t the type’ to have casual sexual relationships – and Lee knows it. He doesn’t see himself as a family guy. The idea of being a husband freaks Lee out! Lee got his heart broken by the evil Eva – whom he wanted to marry and he’s taken on his plaayboy persona (maybe that is his scarecrow persona too? not sure..) to protect his heart from anymore heartbreak– all while disapproving of any plaayboy who would make a play for Amanda! Put those two things together?? Lee thinks he is not good for Amanda! Well.. not the way he is.. To be with Amanda would mean he would have to change his ways..
Lee’s affection for Amanda is real.. and this wedding ceremony starts something in Lee which is not going to just die quietly. The wedding.. the ceremony.. the kiss.. the vows- change Lee. Lee questions his status quo- Maybe marriage isn’t so bad.. maybe I do want to be a husband?? Maybe I want someone special in my life that I can count on- maybe I need that and I’ve been pretending this whole time I didn’t.. because this is feeling pretty wow!! Maybe I could do this with Amanda?? Whoa!!!! This is something I want?? HUH????!!!! What’s happening to me????!!!! – It’s a moment of self revelation: Lee finally realises what has been going on from the start – he does have feelings for Amanda! It’s not just about the kiss– He stands there stunned by it all, after he puts the ring on Amanda’s hand..
Before him stands wonderful Amanda.. Accepting of him, Brave, Loyal.. and gorgeous! Amanda always comes through for him. And.. Lee wants to always come through for Amanda! And the kiss reminds him: Amanda is also very passionate and desirable! He likes her kisses and he’d like some more!!!! He is not seeing Amanda in the same way anymore!
Lee has realised he has feelings for Amanda, But.. he isn’t ready to deal with it. When he pulls back in the Tag from all the events of the episode, it is clear this realisation of Lee’s hasn’t been forgotten. Lee tries to distance himself from this episode’s events – but he can’t separate himself from it and the vows that he made.. that Genie is out of the bottle.. and so IMHO from now on.. Lee enters a new stage: Denial!
I think Lee has more growing to do before he is capable of falling in love with Amanda- that growth started in The First time- but.. it is in this episode that he first sees that something is beginning to change in himself.. So I don’t think Lee is ‘in love ‘quite yet but he is getting much much closer! 😉 Lee needs to come to terms with how he sees relationships in general and this episode is the beginning of Lee changing his views on marriage.
I don’t see Amanda as being in love with Lee yet either..[there are a few things ahead which make me think this too but I’ll get to them!] As attracted to him as she is, I don’t think Amanda was considering Lee as a romantic partner- She’s very practical! – he isn’t looking for the type of relationship she would be looking for and she knows it! [and she accepts him as he is and doesn’t try and change him – which IMHO is one reason why Lee falls in love with her ]
She recovers very quickly to the events of this episode, not surprised by the passion between them.. I think Amanda could conclude that Lee has been shaken up by this whole series of events.. but especially by the wedding ceremony.. Surprise surprise.. Mr cool spy was very affected! He wanted more than one kiss!! He is starting to feel something! but.. that doesn’t mean he is or will ever be ready for a serious relationship or even looking for one, so in a way – nothing’s changed..
Amanda the pragmatist takes note of Lee’s response.. but discounts it as a real possibility- I don’t see her as waiting around for Lee here.. I see her as moving on with her life, she’s the mother of two small boys, she isn’t looking to play the field! – she wants a real relationship: and Lee isn’t capable of that. So.. While it was nice for Amanda to enjoy a kiss or two with Lee – and see that she does affect him- she doesn’t see it as going anywhere at this point.. She puts Lee back in the friend and partner category. Amanda is enjoying her new career, her new acceptance as his work partner, their friendship.. and just enjoying the ride and not expecting anything more!
**huge thanks again to ereshai who kindly transcribed this episode and shared it with us as part of Operation Sandstorm! **
I REALLY look forward to hearing your thoughts everyone!!!!! Thanks so much for joining the walk through this fabulous show with the rest of us!!!! byeeeee!
I think Francine takes great pleasure in telling Amanda that the marriage wasn’t valid. I’ve always thought that Francine is jealous of how close Amanda and Lee are – and what better way to squash any lingering feelings of attraction!
I think when Amanda put the ring on Lee’s pinky, it was symbolic of the fact that she didn’t put a ring on his finger at the ceremony.
Another really good episode to revisit😊esp if we watch it in the reorder. Actually i have forgotten how it was ordered intially but SOS coming after POSSUM makes really good sense👍😊. I love SOS becoz the focus on their relationship is fantastic. 1st..Lee showed Amanda so much respect when he booked adjoining rooms😂(inspite of them having a cover as a couple)knowing very well how uncomfortable she was abt sharing a bed with him. Amanda,on the other hand,i guess,wouldn’t have minded sharing a bed witj Lee coz she i think she trusted him as a very good friend and she respected him too…so,she having her own space never crossed her mind.
Now coming to the KISS..Hmm..very interesting. Both were equally shocked by what they felt. (Lee had ignored all emotions on relationships and prefered to keep it that way esp after his incident with Eva..and he never trusted anyone to share any kind of bond)Amanda was stirring up emotions which he had always tried to avoid,to suppress…He liked what he was feeling but still afraid of it. Amanda realised that Lee had awoken the feelings and desires she had for him which she had tried to bury deep inside…i think, Lee realises that LOVE is a huge possibilty but does not know what to do abt it…Amanda has better control over the situation as she had always been able to hide it well..
So for now..the best thing they have decided to do is go on DENIAL mode and ignore it.
And they do the Denial so very well, LOL
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🤣🤣🤣yess…planning to finish up the remaining episodes,probably by tmr…then let’s see how far the denial goes😂😂😂. Now with covid 19 on the rise,even my work schedule has too much flexibility🤷♀️
Sometimes I wonder if Lee was really in love with Eva or if he just thought he was in live with Eva.
I think he was in love with who he ‘thought’ Eva was (not who she actually was).
Sara, I think I prefer your way of describing Lee’s feelings about Eva.
Bingo! Well put Sara!
Lee’s Eva was really Cover Eva. lol. playing a role so Lee would fall for her charms. I think to that computer in SAAB who gave all the answers for what chick dude would like Amanda to wear – lol. I figure Cover Eva had a little Lee Dossier to tell her what he’d go for. Ugh. thinking too deeply about this stuff is a bit icky!
I think Lee didn’t know the true Eva – he may have thought he loved her at the time, but in reality he actually didn’t even really know her.
I’m so glad I discovered this blog, it just makes watching SMK even better. I never fully appreciated all of the nuances of BB and KJ’s performance, thanks Iwsod for your great screen captures which suck me deeper into the vortex of SMKland. In my mind, Lee is searching Amanda’s face for ANY signs that she felt the same thing he did, even though he verbally maintains that this was strictly business.
I really like what you are all saying about Lee and Amanda and falling in love and I think I might agree with all of you. 🙂 However, I wanted to throw my thought into the mix. I would say that Amanda is not consciously in love with Lee at this point, but even though she is still casually dating, no man ever seems to capture her heart (suddenly Carly Simon’s “Nobody Does it Better” is playing in my head). Perhaps Amanda fell for Lee long ago (just like Lee fell for Amanda) and like Lee, she has some soul searching to do.
In The First Time, we could see that Amanda is depressed. She has just been through a divorce, is worried over her finances and is dating a man that is less than exciting (maybe just so she could ‘get back on the horse again’ so to speak). Along comes Lee and suddenly a door opens to a whole new life which offers her an escape from the mundane. One might say that Lee ‘rescued’ Amanda from her depression, as such, Amanda goes through a stage of hero worship. I think that our well grounded Amanda always knew that hero worship would get her nowhere and the friendship was important to her. She suppressed her thoughts on the romantic idea of Lee and along with that she hid away her conscious attraction to him. She still needs Lee to grow as a person before she can truly commit her heart again, but she too needs to redefine who she is. She is no longer ‘just a house wife’. That identity has been a part of her since her children were born, she needs to rediscover herself as Amanda ‘the person’, not just ‘the mother’.
I know I am behind in the blog posts so if this is a repeat of someone else’s thoughts, my apologies. 🙂
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Heck, I am usually late to the party and usually repeat other people thoughts. I really do like your analysis where Lee and Amanda are at romantically at this point. I think I should dust off the season 2 DVDs and watch this episode again.
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what a fabulous tag of a fabulous episode..
these two are adorable.. and I’ve loved going back and rereading all your comments – it’s a bit scary that I don’t remember what I actually said in posts anymore. but I guess on the upside.. old jokes can take me by surprise! lol!!
I’ve loved it.. but.. I confess I’m loving that we now focus solely on the present – and no thinking ahead.. 🙂
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IMO both Lee and Amanda are fighting the feeling big time at this point. And no I don’t think they are in love yet, neither one has given up the fight yet. But I wonder if there is just a little glimmer of realization in the back of their minds after their wedding that it just might be a losing fight.
However, neither one is ready to deal with that possibility yet. As effected as Lee was by the fake(not so fake) wedding I think he still has serious doubts as to wether or not he could every really make that kind of committment to Amanda. He doesn’t see himself as the husband of a suburban woman with two kids and I don’t think it is so much as he doesn’t feel he deserves her as he feels they are just too different. Plus Lee is just not ready to trust love again.
And Amanda certainly doesn’t trust what is going on between her and Lee is real. She has seen the women he paraded through his life. So while she trusts him totally and completely with her life, she does not yet trust him with her heart. That’s why she keeps it closely guarded and is careful not to be too effected by things that happen between them. That’s why I think we often see Lee more effected by things between them than Amanda. She knows she feels something for him and she is careful not to let herself be effect while it continually takes Lee by surprise.
I love how during the second half of season two you see both Lee and Amanda(especially Lee) in denial mode totally fighting what is happening between them while in season three you see them(especially Lee) slowly just start to give the fight up.
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LIKE! Where is that Like button?? Good analysis Misty. Glad you are here!
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LOL if you come back to this post now Jule, you can press the like button 🙂
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Hear hear! You folks have shared such a wonderful and heartfelt analysis of both Lee’s and Amanda’s journeys that’s elevating and affirming to read, so thanks to all of you for enriching my day! The discussion reminds me of the song “Simple Things” by Jim Brickman and sung by Rebecca Lynn Howard. It’s the little things in life that add up to a love that’s deep and enduring. (Lovesmk did a lovely video to the song. Here is the Youtube link if it’s ok to put it here: http://youtu.be/1fnMc9WxFxA )
Thanks Jule I’ll check it out!
Just a word about posting links to other’s content- this seems to be a source of anxiety for people… and I am sure no one wants to mistakenly post a link that someone isn’t happy with.
Maybe what I could suggest is – if you want to post a fan vid and you are not 100% certain the author of the content is happy with you posting the link- you could tell us about the vid.. and give us the name of what to search for – then we can go to youtube and find it ourselves.
This would avoid any links being posted mistakenly – and it would actually mean you don’t have any delay in your comment being posted here – because when you do include a link it will automatically go to moderation.. [if I’m not sure and you do post a link- I might just replace the link with the vid’s name and suggestion to check it out on youtube- okay? :)]
I am not 100% sure whether to post or not sometimes myself.. though I think lovesmk doesn’t mind-
maybe if we tell people what to search for on youtube.. we can go look it up ourselves.. they are easy to find.. and that way – no more anxiety about whether you should or shouldn’t and we are just free to enjoy smk 🙂 Just a suggestion!
I’ll watch that vid later today- thanks Jule!!! Lovesmk is such a talent!!! 🙂
That’s a really good idea! I appreciate The clarification because I wouldn’t want to do anything that might upset anyone who’s put so much work into a project. Have a lovely day iwsod!
I feel the same way 🙂 thanks Jule! LOL I just replied to something you said on the memes thread at Ned’s!! funny! byeeee!
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To me, SOS is a very pivotal mission/adventure for Lee and Amanda. Lee begins to really wake up to the possibility of Amanda as a woman, not just a housewife and mother. “Affair at Bromfield Hall” caught him by surprise, but it isn’t until SOS and that fake wedding that he realizes he might actually be interested in Amanda. He still doesn’t want to admit to more than friendship, because he is beginning to rely on her more as a partner, in addition to having her as a friend. He doesn’t have this kind of deep friendship with any other woman, not even Francine. Though they are good friends, their friendship is not as deep and rich as Lee and Amanda’s. In addition,Amanda begins to wake up to what might be required of her as a spy. She’s experienced a lot of it, but this requires her to do something difficult as a cover. And I do think it was difficult for her because she knows Lee’s reputation and she does have a deep respect for marriage, which is why she doesn’t find it easy to talk about her divorce later on. I also think that Lee is much more comfortable having this fake wedding with Amanda that he would be with any other female agent. Francine, especially, would have been teasing him the entire time, I’m sure.
Loving all the comments! I’m so happy I stumbled across this website and have found other people out there who still love this show!
ISWOD – when I read your recap at the end I thought, she is in my head! There isn’t one thing you wrote that I disagree with. I hadn’t thought about the Scarecrow/playboy persona thing but it does make sense.
I’m in the they’re not in love camp, not at least romantic love. Do they love each other as friends, yes, I think they do. Where did I read or see in a movie somewhere that friendship is a form of love? This whole wedding and San Angelo experience though for Lee is a game changer and it will continue to eat at him until he finally gives in sometime during season 3. I am looking forward to seeing when everyone thinks these two “cross the threshold” and are truly in love. I’m not sure when I think that is myself. I’ll have to really think about it as I watch the rest of S2 and S3.
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How wonderful BJo!! Glad to hear your thoughts were similar to my own.. yeah! I’m looking forward to seeing where Everyone puts the line that each character crosses to be finally termed ‘in love’ – it’s fun to work it out together!! Hey! Cross the threshold is a fabulous way of putting it- given the whole wedding tradition and all that.. okay byeee! So glad you found us BJo! :0 Keep those comments coming!! and I’ll do my best to keep the posts coming tee heee!
BJo now we have finished walking through OBDOBD – have Lee and Amanda crossed that threshold yet? What do you think?
Nope! Noooot yeeeet! Not in my mind anyway! 🙂
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Wow, not just a long post but long comments as well! What a fun discussion. In reading through them, I keep thinking “yep, what she said.” But what came to mind for me was the title of an REO Speed Wagon song (I think it’s theirs): “I want to know what love is,” I think for the first time Lee is truly awoken to the question of what real love might be (and no, I’ve never bought into the Eva/Dorothy stuff as being real love. Young love maybe, but not real love). Perhaps my very favorite thing about SMK, and certainly about S2, is that the show proceeded to build a friendship before romance. To me, being in love is all about being with your best friend; anything else is just being in lust. Perhaps the realization of being in love is a moment in time, but for me at least, falling in love is a journey (as I think others have said more eloquently already), not a moment.
And how does Amanda feel about all this? I think bemused. In so many words, one post said that Lee lacks the maturity she needs in a romantic partner I think she has always felt a very strong attraction to Lee — to his bravery, his passion, his quick-thinking, and even his trouble-making — but the lack of maturity has been a show-stopper. But now Lee has had an epiphany. I doubt he went home and stayed up all night thinking about it, but I think it is one of those epiphanies that keeps popping back up and teasing your mind when you least expect it. The kind that makes you grow. Gee, have I ever mentioned my S2=”emotionally teenaged Lee” theory? 😉 Lee is about to turn the corner in terms of really growing up emotionally. Full speed ahead to Murder Between Friends and *drumroll* Burn Out!! OK, I’ll be patient. We still have a lot of developing to do before we get there.
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I often wish that some fanfic writer would write a series of stories about Lee’s thoughts while he drinks his evening scotch after some of these more pivotal episodes. What went through his head after he got thrown for a loop during some of his interactions with Amanda?
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Whooooo how amazing to read this comment of yours Morley- and to think that you’ve gone ahead and written that series yourself!!! 🙂 and how wonderful they are!!!!
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ROTFL!!! Too funny. I guess I really did want it to happen, huh?
I am loving this look back of yours. Was this the episode that I began to comment on? It was the beginning of it all for me, I think. So glad !!!
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Here is the link to my SOS story 😉
I read it Morley! and was swooning all over the place! I gotta start reading these on the bus too! lol.. but I really want to send you my thoughts as I read them – lol.. so then I don’t read them isn’t that dumb?!
Thanks for writing and sharing these stories Morley- sooo lovely! 🙂
Hee hee, my pleasure wink wink
Yeah It can feel a bit like a time warp going back and reading.. especially when things were 2 years ago.
I feel the same way about me referring to future events briefly in posts – a number of years on.. and things have progressed from that! 🙂
SOS does not feel that long ago – story wise.. but time and RL wise it was quite a while ago! 🙂
I’ve enjoyed it too. Was Ship of Spies your first episode you joined the walk on? whooo I might move this Q to the Hiatus post..
I think so… But I lurked for a long while before that. Maybe even close to a year.
well I’m sure glad you lurkers decided to join in the fun 🙂
-no pressure to de-lurk y’all… but you are very welcome whenever and however you decide to join in 🙂
Hi Raffie.. uh oh… in my enthusiasm to discuss Lee and Amanda’s relationship I may have bombarded you all – sorry!!! I agree- the friendship is fabulous! 🙂
Bemused is the perfect word for Amanda Raffie- thanks! Yes I agree- Murder between friends, and burn out are two biggies heading our way!!! Thanks raffie!
Morley that would be great- good thinking!!! Can anyone recommend any? [ I am not in the fan fic know so I can’t help sorry! ]
The song “I Want to know What Love is” is by the band Foreigner. The song “I can’t Fight this Feeling” is by REO Speedwagon.
As I said there may have been an attraction, but he stamped it down so fast because she was not his type and that would not be possible. Therefore, I think in his mind up until this episode he may acknowledged he cared, but as a friend (maybe, but that is where he put Francine) or like a relative (more likely-think annoying Uncle). That why I think that in his mind to avoid the whole “not my type” attraction, he put her in the relative bucket. However, after that ceremony reality of his attraction to her hit him all at once and he could not put her there any longer. Just my humble opinion!
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hiya Pattybones – ah yeah that sounds alot like my thinking – Sounds good to me 🙂
sorry I think the ‘sister’ thing threw me 😉 tee hee..
Yeah should have said “relative” instead! Blame it on trying to think and type the same time! 😉
Here’s my thought, briefly. Lee’s in love, and in the tag we’re seeing him really needing Amanda to verify that “wedding” business” was just in the line of duty, nothing more. For now, she nicely obliged him. She did it with a knowing smirk, I think, but she didn’t call him on it. But let’s wait and see what happens the next time he tries to defuse their sparks “in the line of duty”, in Utopia Now! Her reply to his back-pedaling is quite a bit different.
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Hey Cindy! Ohh that is a good idea to share your thinking first then read mine – I’d like to hear your view before my ideas have a chance to get in the way! I’ve sometimes wondered if I should construct my posts just as a plain recap – and then share my thoughts at the end – to help with that?? thoughts?? I should I keep doing what I’m doing?? I don’t know.. just an idea.. I love to hear from others!
Wow… you really did have a different experience of this tag to start with!
You nearly made me spray my computer with my coffee when I read your comment ‘ Ha! Still got it!‘ – roflmao! I love it!!! yeah baby!!! 😉
I only saw ship of spies as an adult.. so I really have no idea how it would be to have seen it much younger.. I can only imagine I would not have been able to get half the nuance ( err not that I get the other half now LOL! ) but it would be different to watch it when younger.. I don’t think I would have understood how you can have so many emotions going on at once..
But! Soooo glad you got hold of the clear DVDS! that we all did!! and we have this opportunity to really watch Lee squirm! rofl! and be affected and struggle with his growing feelings for Amanda – squeeeee! 🙂
Yeah that enjoying his discomfort idea Cindy? I can see that.. I think I mentioned something about Amanda enjoying that she affected him – LOL.. I didn’t put it quite the same way but I love your ‘I’ve still got it’ interpretation! That’s made my day! 🙂 and it’s even sweeter knowing she is out on a date with Bryce Topping in the very next episode haaaa!! 😉
Oh thanks Cindy for letting me know my idea about their next meeting made sense to you!! that’s reassuring! 🙂 yeah!! I am sure Francine was busting to know! but.. she probably wouldn’t want to admit it 😉 I think this is why she is the one who butts in with telling Amanda the marriage isn’t real – like – I know more than you do and I wasn’t even there.. a kind of one upmanship: but.. Francine wasn’t there.. suffer Francine!
What’s your thinking on Lee and Amanda’s progress up to this point Cindy? are you declaring love now?? do tell!
I want to know if Raffie and Redgold think Lee is in love now – if you’re out there!! I love to hear your thoughts on Lee!!! 🙂 miss ya!
Hey Sab! Ohhh yeah true.. he was trying to convince Amanda as well – sorry if I didn’t say that.. although, I do lean towards it being much more for his own sake than for Amanda’s.. but thanks for the encouragement! 🙂
Hi Melissa Robertson! (sorry I’ve got to use your full name or it gets confusing with two Melissas! ).. it is deliciously fun to watch Lee squirm at where his thoughts and feelings are headed huh! Looks like we’re thinking along the same lines of where they’re at – at the moment! 🙂
Hiya Pattybones! How are you?? wonderful to see you stop by and share your thoughts! You agree there is a definite change in Lee? it’s wonderful to watch his journey isn’t it! Gosh.. I had never thought of Amanda as his sister or cousin.. a friend yeah..why? I guess I think right from the start he’s always had a physical awareness of Amanda that would err be inappropriate otherwise 😉 tee hee.. so I see that just a little differently- but yeah that attraction does go Pow!!! and hit Lee right between the eyes in this episode huh!!
Ohh that plaayboy persona/scarecrow idea was just a fleeting thought of mine I threw out to see if anyone had ideas.. so I’m glad I did now if it got you thinking! 🙂 I haven’t thought about it much.. so it’s great to hear your thoughts. Yeah.. I can see the whole scarecrow/ playboy thing could be a big package – the cover package – Like the Victoria Grenwich cover 😉 – (including his cover story as an astronaut lol! 😉 ) I think right from the first time Amanda has seen through Lee’s cover persona – to the real man beneath.. even when I think she had a crush on him.. she was still able to see through his act! 😉 Amanda’s a wise lady!
No noooo there is no such thing as rambling Pattybones! Only lots of really interesting thoughts to share! Please! keep on sharing! 🙂 Thanks for reading! and thanks for enjoying it with us all 🙂
Oh Hurray!!! I was thinking: where’s Paula?? I hope she’s alright!!!! Hello Paula!
I was going to email you Paula.. I thought maybe your baby had arrived? I do hope you are well.. and it is lovely to hear from you -but no pressure! [SMK has to wait for the real world sometimes huh! 🙂 ] just know: you are missed!!! 🙂
Ahhh so you think Lee is in love now. You would label it that now? I find this sooo fascinating! I think we (smk fans in general) can differ in how we define it.. when is that line crossed?? what tips it over the edge? Something has for Paula! what is it Paula? do tell!!! Do you think Amanda is in love?
And why can’t I call it ‘love’ yet? all the elements are there! Something holds me back though.. I think I am looking ahead a little bit…(-maybe you are doing this too Paula: just coming to a different conclusion! and that’s cool! ) – I do see an episode where I actually think I would label him as being ‘in love’ – An idea I had.. a moment of realisation – that tipped me over the edge – and I could no longer call it anything but Lee being ‘in love’ – I can’t wait to get there with you! .. but I will hold off being specific as I could change my mind still as we go through the episodes.. I am learning as I go and thinking things through more..
As for Amanda – I see her behaviour in some future episodes and think: well she can’t possibly be in love and do that! or behave that way! but then.. I see that could just be my interpretation of what she does and why.. and others will probably see things a little differently!
I love to hear what others think and why! gosh.. maybe I should do another one of those posts on their relationship – would that be helpful?? to discuss their relationship up to this point??
Paula I see Amanda’s smirk as ‘knowing’ as well! 🙂 but.. for me, I only see it as knowing he was affected – not knowing that he is in love or anything.. do you think that?
Yeah! Utopia now?? cool!! .. when this scene is so fabulously revisited?? things have come a long way!!! – Can’t wait to get there!!
Byee guys! I have loved hearing from you all about this fabulous episode!
Next? We have Bryce Topping to look forward to 😉 ha! byeeee
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I guess I would characterize both Lee and Amanda as “loving” each other simply because of the way I’ve come to perceive love over the years. For instance, looking back, I had a degree of loving regard for my future husband quite a bit before I was ready to admit myself committedly in love with him. And those powerful feelings I called love when we were engaged? Ha! Half-a-dozen kids, a baker’s dozen years, countless job changes, spats, and growing pains later, THIS is love. What did I know back then?
So, long story short, I do believe our characters harbor a degree of love toward each other. However, I don’t think it is profoundly deep just yet, and I do believe it’s too soon to say they share a love together. I just don’t see love as a destination, but more of degrees along an ever-deepening continuum. Is that deep, or what?
Incidentally, I have about 8 weeks left on the baby countdown, and I tell ya, it’s not the same at 40 as it was at 28! Ohh, my aching back!
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Paula, I agree with you. I think there is love there between the two of them. Not that they have given themselves over to loving each other. But each time their friendship/ relationship is pressed they choose a loving response (evenually) and they did have other choices. People often choose to be self protecive and not to grow in relationships, but it is almost like Lee and Amanda have no choice, they are so drawn to one another and choose to care for one another, and this draws them into a friendship probably like neither of them have ever had and that opens them to love. I do think at this stage that they are fighting those feelings, the both probably think that the other is totally wrong for them. I think of it like they are “tucking it away” but eventually it gets too big to tuck it away and they have to deal with it. I do think that Lee is more able to delude himself with the definition of what he is feeling, well until this episode. Amanda strikes me as an honest and pracitcal women who calls it like it is and then goes on, no point in dwelling (any more) on what won’t be, and she chooses to maintain her steadfast friendship with Lee, I think she may even be reluctant to leave that safe place later on . I don’t think that this realization of feeling comes out of the blue for Lee, though. That would be too much revelation based on just a kiss, or based on a very scary marriage ceremony. I think he must have some awareness of what was happening to him. And I think it was there from the beginning, maybe even from There Goes the Neighborhood on, even his comment about never being a bomber father, and Amanda’s role as a mother in ACM Kid and Mongoose and others were glimpses for him, even though it was fear and a rejection, but why would you adamantly object to something if it wasn’t tugging on you in some way. What I mean is that he is aware that to have a relationship with Amanda or recognize his attraction to her would be a serious long term thing that would embrace her as a mother as well. If the thoughts hadn’t crossed his mind at all, he wouldn’t be so adamant about rejecting them. I also wonder what he would have said after one of his “your not the type” comments if Amanda had asked what type she was. I don’t think he would be able to articulate it, but I bet his thoughts would run somewhere along the lines that she was the type of woman to be cherished. And the concept of cherishing is very much a part of marital vows (in fact I think they use those words in season 4).
I don’t think that either of them have “falllen in love” although I don’t think “falling in love” is a good description. Maybe “giving yourself over to loving someone unresevedly” or something like that. I think it is more of a choice to let go. Lee and Amanda are no where near to that yet.
And Paula, A baby at 40 is nothing like a baby at 20 something. I had my first at 24 and my sixth (and last) at 40. The biggest difference that I remember was that I let myself get the rest and I enjoyed that baby totally. With my first I was so eager to get back to “normal.” Enjoy your baby and your family and any pampering you can get!
Geese that was long….oh my
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Hello Paula ahhh 8 weeks! I’ll be thinking of you ( and I’ll say a prayer for you and bub if that’s okay?) – I knew you ladies would have wisdom to impart on love and commitment..Thanks so much for responding!
I know I say Lee isn’t ‘in love’ with Amanda yet – but at the same time – Paula, I agree with you! (and Morley whom I’ll respond to in a moment) yes.. that is real love you describe.. the day to day grind.. the ups the downs.. I think your story of how you ‘had a degree of loving regard for my future husband quite a bit before I was ready to admit myself committedly in love with him.’ – describes well where Lee and Amanda are beginning to be at at this stage – would you say?
I think how we see things when we are in the moment is different to how we see things looking back – with this walk through that I am doing on this blog, I am trying to be in the moment as much as I can be- trying to understand where the characters are at and how they see things at that time. Rather than just deciding: they loved each other from the start they just didn’t know it – I’m attempting to experience the journey (and any nuances) through the characters’ eyes.. [ but I understand this is only my interpretation of that journey and love to hear from others]
As a fan just looking at the story as a whole – I would definitely say that the two of them started falling in love (on that continuum you mentioned!) from the moment they met- but if I were to follow the characters on their journey, they wouldn’t be thinking that as they don’t know where things will end up.. I hope that explains how I can think two contrasting things at the same time! LOL!
Yeah there are different types of love too aren’t there.. different levels of intensity.. and there is also the verb of loving.. the action.. not just the feelings.. so it is a wonderfully complex and fascinating area of this story to explore!
Thanks for sharing your story Paula, it is lovely to hear a true love story! 🙂
Yeah – maybe that profoundly deep love is what I am waiting for before I see them as ‘in love’ – I’m trying to (maybe this is a bit arbitrary of me ..) find the moment where each of the two characters could be defined as being ‘in love’ – where their love won’t go away ever- and they are forever changed.. where does the being ‘in love’ arrive in their stories? where do they cross that line in the continuum ? ( ie. where’s the tipping point maybe?) I totally agree with your idea that love is a matter of degrees..
I see both Lee and Amanda as going through stages, and it’s a progression..
Hello Morley! Isn’t this a wonderful subject to ponder?
I loved to read your thoughts! I am sure others enjoyed them too – talk of Lee and Amanda in love? can’t get enough!!! As I was reading your comments I got the feeling that you enjoyed thinking those ideas too – I hope that’s the case 🙂
I basically agree with everything you wrote Morley! and put so beautifully!
I agree they are both fighting their feelings – though I would say Lee is fighting harder.. LOL.. Amanda is only just starting to question what’s going on from now IMHO – she’d settled on Lee as being just a friend.. so this to me is only the very start of her even having an inkling that it could progress to something more – ie. from now we get progressive little moments where Amanda notes Lee’s attitude or behaviour and she starts to realise there might be more going on here now! (but Amanda is a tougher nut to crack for me.. how about for you?? anyone??)
Yes!! I loved how you described Amanda Morley– she’s very honest and practical! I think she’s an emotionally intelligent woman.. [which is ideal for a man like Lee no?! 😉 ]
I would agree the realisation for Lee didn’t come out of the blue – but I guess the realisation had to happen at some point is how I saw it.. Oh yeah! He has been changing in his feelings for Amanda right from the start! 🙂
Yes Morley! I love it!!! ‘ giving yourself over to loving someone unreservedly’ is a lovely way to put it! I am going to try and figure out the moment/episode this happens ( ie. that line they are progressing towards gets crossed) for both Lee and Amanda.. I have a rough idea.. but we’ll see!
But I definitely agree.. their feelings for each other grow from the start! 🙂
Anyone else got thoughts on this??
byeeee and thanks for sharing Paula and Morley!
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I can say that my viewing of this episode and your recap that there was a definite change in Lee starting here. We know that he cares for Amanda maybe in his mind like a sister or cousin, but here I think he realizes that it is more in the realm of a romance instead of caring. Especially, with that second kiss at the wedding ceremony.
One of your comments got me to thinking:
his playboy persona (maybe that is his scarecrow persona too? not sure..)
I agree it was his “Scarecrow” persona because most of the women in his black books who are not part of the Agency get stories about his life instead of the real Lee. The playboy persona is his “cover” and he only lets a few people know the real Lee Stetson. Of course, Amanda, wants to know the real Lee Stetson and he is not too comfortable with this. So of course he puts up walls and does his best to stay in his safe life of Lee the Playboy with very little emotional attachments. The fact that he thought to fake his name and stuff for the wedding and of course the speech in the tag is just Lee’s way of reinforcing his defenses. However, that kiss at the wedding ceremony was IMO the crack in his defenses because that was Lee the real man’s reaction and not Lee the playboy. At least based on what I saw through those screenshots.
Well I will stop my rambling, but thought I would share my thoughts on this great episode! Thanks again for doing these recaps. They are a lot of fun to read!
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I enjoyed this tag 🙂 Love that Lee is having trouble with his thoughts and feelings (he just can’t figure out the effect Amanda has on him!). Love that Amanda is amused and probably relieved that the wedding wasn’t lagit because I agree with you that she is looking for permanent and real!!!
OOOOOOH SQUEEEEEEE! The tag! I haven’t read your post tag thoughts yet but I am sure I agree with them so please forgive me if I am repeating your brilliant observations 😀
When I first saw this episode (which I had to borrow a friend’s tape because my sister ‘accidently’ turned off the VCR so it didn’t tape), I was pretty annoyed at Lee during the tag. I had interpreted his behavior as assuming that Amanda was so stupid sloppy in love with him he had to assure (yet again) her this was a cover and nothing more. How patronizing and insulting! I was thrilled with her response, basically – “get over yourself hotstuff!”
What a difference clear DVDs and life experience make! I didn’t realize how affected/discombobulated/gobsmacked Lee was at the wedding. But Amanda did and (I hope I am not going too far) is enjoying his discomfort – even if just a little bit. I don’t think she now hopes that she and Lee can have a relationship but she is smug in a “Ha! Still got it!” kind of way.
By the way — I really like your interpretation that the bullpen was the first time Lee and Amanda saw each other after San Angelo. I am still not happy Francine had to break the news to her. Do you think Billy and Francine wondered what happened between the Lee and Amanda on the island because he was so anxious to talk to her alone?
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ha, your first interpretation was just a little off, he is trying to convince himself not Amanda. 😉 Really great pics and write up!
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So true, and for that I blame my sister! If I had my own copy on tape I could have watched it over and over (and over) again — just to get the proper nuances of those 2 scenes.
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