Hooray! So happy to arrive at this much anticipated episode!!!
We’ve given a different format a go with Vigilante Mothers and Welcome to America Mr Brand – We’ve found the old format is better – where I just comment throughout and don’t restrain myself basically 
So back to the old format it is!
As always – all views and opinions are very welcome! My ideas are not expert.. just my ideas – and I’m keen to encourage open discussion.. feel free to throw what ifs out there.. play devil’s advocate..whatever! I’m not just ‘the recap writer’ – I’m a fellow member just like you looking to join a discussion of this wonderful show here with you all.
Lovesmk has generously created some ‘Over the Limit’ banners which will appear at the top of the blog as we walk through this episode- so keep an eye out for these treats!! (Lovesmk is so good at these!) They will change depending on where we are up to in the episode 🙂 Thanks Lovesmk!!!
So, finally!!! on with Over the Limit!!!!!
The episode opens with the usual vistas of Washington DC and some grumpy music… yes grumpy! A grumpy man is pacing in the waiting room of Secretary Rawlings’ office.. We hear the usual guest star jibber jabber.. but I guess we should pay attention so we can understand the plot somewhat [oh wait, there’s a plot? 😉 ]
Walter O’Keefe is not happy about being kept waiting. The phone rings and the receptionist is heard to tell someone the Secretary is not in. Walters is now really cross!
Walters: he’s not here? Then why have I been waiting here a whole hour?
Receptionist: Oh he’s here for you Mr O’Keefe I’m just careful about his calls.
Secretary Rawlings finally makes an appearance. He’s in a hurry and doesn’t want to make time for Walter O’Keefe. We hear a Miss Sullivan from ‘Save our Bay’ has called at least 4 times and left a message..Walter and his staffer roll their eyes at hearing this.
Secretary Hamilton Rawlings goes to leave but the staffer or is that a goon, Towne, blocks his path so he has to talk to Walter.
Walter: You can give me five minutes! So now you’re dancing cheek to cheek with Elizabeth Sullivan? What’s going on?
[Has anyone seen the Weird Al Yankovich movie Vidiot-UHF? Walters was the baddie in that.. and played it so over the top it was hilarious! I can’t help but think of this character throughout this episode!!]
Rawlings: Political reality. The President’s taking a lot of heat. I may have to pacify people like Elizabeth Sullivan.
Rawlings gives Walter the brush off and suggests he make an appointment for next week.
Rawlings: And you can leave Tarzan (pointing to the goon) at home.
Walter has $20 million in transoceanic and he’s not happy with the secretary trying to pacify Elizabeth Sullivan.. Walter: if my trawlers can’t fish over the limit I’m out of business!… ( well there’s the title!! ) .. now you know the deal. I put you in this office now you keep me in business.
Rawlings wordlessly turns to leave, they open the office door to find dead fish and a sign to save the bay in his way.
Rawlings: call security Pam, Mrs Sullivan has left us another calling card.
Seems Rawlings has heard Mrs Sullivan..
Rawlings reneges on his arrangement with O’Keefe..
Rawlings: priorities change.. even allies.
Sounds like their arrangement is now dead in the water (get it?? how many fishing puns can we fit into this episode everyone??!! err before we reach our ‘quota’?!!)
Walter storms off swiping away the collection of dead fish. Rawlings instructs his secretary to tell Mrs Sullivan he’s gotten her message. Wow.. here we have it again – a campaigning mother for the environment trying to protect her family’s future!!! Goooo the women!!! 
And she seems to be making herself heard with her surprise dead fish and constant phone calls.. LOL maybe she learned the lessons of Mothers for a Safe Environment!
So, it seems fishing over the limit will no longer be protected or supported by Secretary Rawlings – the relationship between Rawlings and Walters is changing. And Walters is not about to cut bait! There’s a lot of changing relationships in this episode.. here is our first- Rawlings and Walter!
On to Amanda’s.. the birds are chirping in the suburbs!!! LOL!!
Dotty is so engrossed in her reading she 
doesn’t notice the kettle is boiling..
Amanda enters to turn the kettle off and finds her mother distracted by her Sun west living magazine!
Uh oh.. Amanda is wearing one of her ties!!! ugh!! does she have to wear a tie with that red skirt?? why!!! ugh.. seems now the hair don’t is gone I have a new complaint- I’m so hard to please!!!
Amanda rushes around the kitchen getting herself a glass of milk and explaining to Dotty: Ah Mother look, I’ve got a meeting that’s probably going to last all afternoon and Jamie has a worm farm to make. [More homework for Amanda and Dotty to do? ]
… so if you could get him started on it I would appreciate it and I’ll 
finish up when I get home this afternoon. (We see Dotty is still engrossed in her magazine, it’s doubtful whether she is actually listening to Amanda’s request) …. I’ve already gotten the worms and everything he needs just get him started.. mother?
Dotty doesn’t respond.
[Given this episode is about fishing over the limit, Jamie’s worm farm is an interesting addition to the plot no?? Worms are used as bait to catch fish 
no?? do you think this is deliberate?]
Amanda: Mother! (She walks over to Dotty. With her glass of milk..) … earth to Mother!! haa!
Dotty clutches her Sun west magazine close to her chest.
Dotty: ha haaa.. Darling do you think a woman becomes more or less attractive as she gets older.. to men?
Amanda thinks a moment: …I guess it depends on the woman (good answer!).
Dotty: And the man. (another good answer!)
Amanda: right.
and uh oh.. Dotty’s reading material falls out from behind the magazine she was hiding behind –
Amanda: what is that?
Amanda quickly grabs it. She’s quicker than Dotty! 
Dotty: that is just.. one of those.. throwaway things they put into these magazines. 
Amanda: Mother this is not one of those throw away 
advertising things this is an entire cata- (she quickly looks at the cover) … Rebecca’s fantasies! This is an entire sexy lingerie catalogue.
At this we see Dotty’s wordless reaction.. was I looking at that? never! dooo deee dooo..
Notice Amanda has a reeeeally good look.. ahem..
Amanda the disapproving school marm: Oh would you look at that,…
…I don’t know why anybody would want to wear this stuff…
…you can read through it.
Amanda disapproves of the catalogue before she knows that Dotty had been reading it. My goodness.. what has happened to Amanda since Always look a gift horse?? Remember when she told Penny about her tried and true way of resolving things with her ex-husband? (whahahaa.. yes ironic huh! ) .. hot mulled wine and a sexy nightgown..
Amanda sounds so old fashioned and disapproving here.. I don’t think it registers with Amanda that Dotty would have even been looking at it. What do you think? do tell!!
IMHO Amanda thinks- well, would you look what they secretly stuffed into your magazine! what’s the world coming to!
Is this a lack of continuity that Amanda no longer sees the power of a sexy nightgown?? or are we seeing here that maybe Amanda has shut down the sexy part of herself?? (Maybe she has set a ‘limit’ on that part of herself for a while now?? and gee.. why would she be doing that huh???!!!! Struggling with certain feelings for a certain someone???!!) whoooo could that partially explain the (duh duh duuuhhh!!!!) Hair – don’t????!!!
Dotty holds her hand out for Amanda to give her back the catalogue.
Dotty: you could, but I don’t think when you put one of those things on you want t
o curl up with a good book.
I think Amanda is surprised her mother wants the catalogue back.. I think Amanda is wondering- What’s going on here??!! Why is my mother interested in that catalogue?
Do you think Dotty is watching Amanda here thinking: how did I raise such a repressed daughter??!!! Why was Dotty hiding it in the magazine in the first place? the kids aren’t around.. Wasn’t Dotty in ACM Kid talking to Amanda about how Dr Bain thought she carried all her passion in her arches or something? I remember Amanda was a bit shocked at hearing this from her mother – but it’s never stopped Dotty before 😉 that and her suggestion of seeing the new Richard Gere movie.. what episode was that?? anyone?? I won’t go look.. I’ll leave it to one you guys – I’m sure you’ll know!
What do you all make of this scene between Dotty and Amanda?
Amanda hands the catalogue back.
Amanda: Okay…
.. I’m outta here!
[The fact that Amanda gets herself a glass of milk to drink while this conversation takes place is very interesting! A very pure and innocent drink that children tend to enjoy more than adults?? She holds it up quite prominently throughout this exchange. Also notice.. she heads out the door while still holding her glass of milk rofl! Now that’s hanging on to your childhood! ]
I don’t think Amanda really wants to know the answers to the questions she is asking herself about this situation – she takes off pretty fast!
Love how Dotty goes back to reading the catalogue not even looking back up at Amanda as she mumbles: bye.
– not her usual farewell is it.. usually Dotty is very attentive with her goodbyes no?
By the way, some would call the products which Rebecca’s fantasies’ sell another form of ‘bait’
Well, am I excited to hear from you all about Dotty and Amanda!!! do tell!!! Okay byeee for now!!!
"Just walk with me.." 
It could also be there are different levels of sexy nightgowns and maybe the ones in Rebecca’s Fantasies are just too revealing as far as she’s concerned. The name alone sounds more risque and she makes the point about them being see-through.
When I first heard Amanda’s line to Penny, my immediate picture was more something satin and lace that would be a little short and revealing, kind of like the white one Jennifer wore on Hart To Hart only with shorter sleeves and maybe a bit more of a daring neckline.
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Maybe it’s just me, but I think A was totally more prudish in later seasons than S1. I wish they could have established that Amanda and Penny had maintained a friendship (in my thinking, they did). That princess was all “you go girl!” after talking about the lingerie; and Amanda was way more relaxed about …”things”. Wasn’t that the episode where her youngest son told her to pick the black low-cut dress (which really was quite a hot number), and DOTTY was the prude?
I guess it’s possible 😂 that Dean turned her on more than we want to believe? (Or maybe A had to pull all the “sexy times” weight with Dean. —Yeah, I can see that.)
I keep wanting to say I would LOVE a reboot of the series (new actors, similar rom-com spirit), but then I remember our current political climate. I guess “Homeland” is the closest present-day answer to SMK, and it Is TERRIBLE! And not just because Carrie is bipolar and her love interest (uh, spoilers… “got a new show”), but the season-long stories are really terrible; the romance is a wet blanket; and while Homeland can be funny, I don’t think it’s “meant” to be comedic at all. (Obviously I hate it, heh.) It’s really very doom and gloom — sadly, probably exactly what SMK would be right now. Great: now I’m sad! 😭
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Awwww! Don’t be sad! Come join us down the rabbit hole – there is plenty of chocolate and an assortment of beverages to slake your thirst.
And I agree with you completely, there are very few family friendly shows to watch now-a-days, the shows of the 80s had an innocence about them and the whole family could watch together. Plot holes schmot holes be darned. The chemistry between Kate Jackson and Bruce Boxleitner was insane – it would be really hard to recreate so I think a reboot would not do well.
As to your other point, Amanda’s character lost her way in mid to late season 1 and season 2. I miss sassy confident Amanda who used mild curse words like damn, would yell right back and who could mischievously quip to the HOTTEST GUY ON THE PLANET that sex with him was a major disappointment. And she was smart and competent and every bit Lee’s equal (IMHO)
It’s like the writers, to cool down the sizzle decided to ramp up her wholesome mother on a pedestal image and make her more the damsel in distress, less confident. I am glad KJ stepped in and we got some of the sass and spunk back in season 3, but man, those early episodes were hilarious.
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I’ve had similar thoughts about a reboot. Even having Lee and Amanda’s son or daughter play the next ‘Scarecrow’ and have KJ and BB guest star. But for similar political reasons, I’m not sure how it would work either. Thanks for the note about Homeland. I’ve been curious about it, but it sounds like I can scratch it off my list.
Yes, like Cindy says, don’t be sad! We have this place to escape to (and Neds) and we keep each other company. 😀
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Ohhh!!! This is one of my favourite episodes of Season Three. It’s the “Lee finally wakes up to what he really wants” episode for me – namely he wants Amanda, although he stumbles a bit (and sometimes monumentally) along the way.
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Well, after hiring all the king’s men to put me back together after Jule’s comment left me in pieces, I decided I did need to get this out – for my sake – even if no one ever reads it. 😆 I want to list a few thoughts and things I agree with.
I see Lee and Amanda as good friends and true (yet, not officially on paper) work partners at this point. They’ve come through lots of harrowing tales, and have rescued one another both personally and professionally.
I think their friendship is causing Lee to question his past ways and what he wants for his future (including the type of woman he wants). He does not have any answers yet though. I think their partnership is showing him that he can trust someone again.
I think their partnership is causing Amanda to believe in herself more and is challenging her to grow intellectually and in her physical capabilities. She is also losing a lot of naiveté (i.e. trick book isn’t about magic). I think her friendship is helping to fulfill Amanda’s need to help people and to have a friend. She helps Lee on the job, but I think she also wants to help him in his personal life and wants to have a friend. Because her job has to be a secret, it is natural that she becomes friends with Lee. It isn’t going to happen with Francine or Billy!
I agree with Kiwismh: “She does know how to be an attractive, vibrant woman without coming across as willing to jump into bed at the drop of a hat. Some of the evening gowns she wears are quite revealing – she is clearly comfortable with her body and her femininity. But, I think it is very important to her to find the rightman before indulging in a physical relationship, and I don’t necessarily think she considers marriage the only relationship within which a sexual relationship can occur.”
I’ll also paraphrase kiwismh’s thought’s on Lee that I most agree with: he’s had his fair share of women, but does exercise caution/common sense. He has intermittent ongoing relationships with the black book women (i.e. I bet Phyllis – the one he usually sends flower to when she comes back from Gstaad – has been an intermittent ‘friend’ of Lee’s) and doesn’t take a different woman home every night.
I agree with this too, Valerie: “I always saw Lee as a someone who dated quite a bit, but I don’t feel as if every date necessarily ended in sex. I’m not saying that it didn’t happen and I’m not naive enough to think that Lee was some choir boy. But if he were that active I don’t think Amanda (or the rest of us) would be that attracted to him.“ I see Lee as quite the romantic, so I think he also could just enjoy romancing a woman, not just so that he could get her in bed, but because he enjoyed it. Lee likes women, and likes to romance them and have fun with them, I don’t think it’s all about the sex with him.
Misty, I agree with this: Amanda “is probably quite capable of expressing herself sexually under the right circumstances. I am not even convinced that Joe and Lee were the only men Amanda was ever with. In season 1 it says she and Dean use to go away together which could hint at an intimate relationship….” And “Lee never struck me as a man who would turn down an affair that was based on nothing but sex, I just don’t see that as being the only kind of relationships he ever had.” This is what I meant in the paragraph above.
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Hey BJo, don’t worry, we’re reading! Good thoughts. 🙂
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Thanks, kiwismh! And there is a lot more I agree with, but what I chose to put in my comment were the times when I thought the words could have come out of my mouth. But didn’t. Hahaha!
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You be so funny Bjo. I don’t even remember what I said so had to look it up. mind slowly going… I love what you have said and summarized here, it feels true.
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Argh late to the party. Again. Afraid my Sherlock obsession has kinda taken over looks sheepish
Much has already been said but quickly my thoughts.
Good for Dotty for embracing her sexuality and passion. Amanda was always a little too Puritan for my tastes. I image that catalogue is very tame compared to what you can look at these days LOL I think Amanda’s idea of a sexy night gown is something slinky and in red. I suspect there might be a bit more racy underwear in that catalogue. Add to which Amanda seems to have packed up that side of her life and stuck it in a box and buried it. Concentrating on work rather than trying to find a man. Ain’t that the way though, it comes along when you’re not looking for it 😉
I don’t mind the tie so much in this episode, least it matches her blouse 😉
I never really saw Elizabeth Sullivan as the type to threaten and use dead fish to make her point but I haven’t watched the episode yet so I reserve the right to change my mind on that one.
I see the actor playing Walter and I think Innerspace. The 80’s had such great movies 🙂
Much prefer this format IWSOD. Glad it’s back 🙂
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Thanks for the lovely feedback Jenbo! Glad you’ve stopped by and caught up 🙂
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LOL, Jenbo!! I just noticed your new avatar!! No more doggie!
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It relates to a new venture……I have created a wordpress account (different username Jenbo was taken) but for some reason it’s picked up the new avatar!
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Hi Jenbo, are you doing a blog about Sherlock? (Secretly jumps up and down screaming “yeah!”) I have a wordpress blog for my jewelry and random things, jewelsofendearment.com which is why my avatar is always a piece of jewelry. It’s so much fun!
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Yes Jule I am planning a walk through on Sherlock if I can ever get to grips with WordPress. Making the blog look pretty isn’t easy on an iPad and hubby has nicked the laptop this eve. Heavens knows how I shall fit all this in, I’ve still got my transcript to finish, but life would be very dull if I wasn’t juggling too many things LOL
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Cool, can’t wait! If you want any tips, or just want to kvetch, email me on the Jewels site and I’d be happy to help. It is a bit of a bear to “get” and I am constantly running across new issues and interesting features. Iwsod has been a big help, of course 🙂
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Yippee!! We’re off to see the Wiz – oh, wait. We’re not. But I’m soo excited to finally have reached S3, that I was just bursting out with a happy, skipping, type of song!! 🙂
Yay for going back to the old way of doing posts, iwsod. I think it will feel like home again 😉 And yay to Lovesmk for her banner work! Awesome!
LOL – grumpy music….I love mood music, especially when it does such a good job of setting or matching the mood of it’s characters. When I’m working away on my computer, I sometimes like to play a little “mood music” for myself – movie soundtracks. As I hear each song, I can remember the scenes in the movie and how it made me feel. Oh, but I digress. Back to the trawler.
I love he line of SRawlings – “Is he gonna bench press me?” It makes me smile, but what’s even funnier is that the goon is a little on the scrawny side and looks like he could probably only bench press Amanda LOL.
Weird Al, iwsod? Blimey! Of all things to associate with the US and SMK. I’m going to skip that one – sorry! 🙂 The actor was used in a lot though. Sort of like Rita from ALSALS, like someone pointed out on Cindy Dee’s FAB baddie post. And now the goon is called ‘Tarzan’! LOL – he doesn’t look Tarzan-ish to me either!! Whoever did the casting must have been in a hurry that day.
And that sign and those dead fish? I know it’s the 80’s, but wouldn’t there be some sort of security? I mean, the guy is a government secretary. He may not be in the cabinet, but his office is made to look like he’s a muckety-muck. And wouldn’t they smell??? And just how did it get there without anyone hearing anything? Just how long have O’Keefe and Tarzan been waiting? And why don’t they turn up their hearing aids? I swear you can hear the fish making noise as they hit each other when O’Keefe swipes them away. So even though we know they are dead fish cuz this is a tv show and they’re props, maybe the Sullivans really did use fake dead fish and that’s how they got up there without a sound and anyone smelling them?
Ahhh, Dotty and Amanda. I love these two together. Ugh – I do not care for this outfit either. The tie doesn’t bother me so much because I don’t notice it cuz it’s white, it’s the skirt that bugs me. Amanda is very thin and I swear she must have a petticoat on underneath it because it looks way too full on her. Maybe there are just too many pleats and gathers.
I’m not sure if I think the worm farm is deliberate or not, but it seems like it could be. I’ve never heard of a school project at the elementary school level being a worm farm. Maybe meal worms, but are those used for bait? I guess I’m thinking about nightcrawlers 😉 and such. With all the other connections in previous episodes, I’m thinking someone was having a little fun in the writing room one night and decided to make it a worm farm. By now they’re already made two volcanoes, right? They need something else.
My take on this scene and Amanda’s disapproval was always related to her mother. Just like Amanda wouldn’t approve of her boys looking through a ‘girlie’ magazine, she doesn’t approve of her mother looking through this type of magazine. It’s her mother. Your own mother isn’t supposed to wear those sorts of things or even want to wear those sorts of things.
And I take her “I don’t know why anyone would want to wear on of these things….” comment to just be practical Amanda speaking. If she were in a physical relationship and wanting some romance, I do see her thinking becoming less practical and possibly wanting to look at when Dotty is done with it. It’s just not on her radar right now because she isn’t in a relationship like that and therefore would only think about it from a practical standpoint – I think that is her nature.
I don’t think Amanda thinks that someone or some company stuffed this lingerie catalog into Dotty’s magazine. I think she realizes that Dotty is looking at it, was trying to hide it from her mother, and is wondering what is going on with her mother that she would be looking at it. Perhaps with Amanda becoming more and more focused on work she is noticing less what is going on around her house and with the kids and her mother in particular. I think Amanda is trying to remember the last time her mother went on a date. I remember a date in TAD, when she wore that deep v-neck dress, but I don’t remember any others after that.
So I don’t see this as a lack of continuity – on the contrary, I see it as great continuity. It shows that Amanda’s focus is on her job, not on a man. That is just not part of her life right now – from a practical, conscious point of view. Perhaps it is necessary for Amanda to do this in order to keep any feelings or anything of that nature about Lee from coming out or affecting her work. So I guess I agree with what you wrote, iwsod, about shutting down that part of herself. In doing that she has reverted to complete practicality in that area.
I don’t think Dotty is thinking Amanda is repressed, I think she is only thinking, “Well, that cat’s out of the bag. At least I don’t have to hide it anymore.” I’m sure she realizes Amanda views her as a mother and not as a woman with needs and desires. I don’t think Dotty has had much romance in her life, other than the Dr. Bain parts early on, and Amanda is used to it. I’m sure she wants to be sensitive to Amanda because it can be hard to think about or watch your parent in a relationship with someone other than your other parent.
As far as the milk goes? Well, I’ll leave that to you deep thinkers. I’m thinking Amanda’s thirsty, she likes milk, so there ya go. 😉 :wave:
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I agree with your take on all of this, BJo. I like your interpretation of the continuity aspect in regards to where Amanda is right now in her life and career.
I haven’t read all 45 comments on this episode to know what others have said about this (because I am behind again),but I do think the milk was 100% deliberate. The same thing happens in Savior. When Lee is in to some very unsavory activities and tipping the tailor some exorbitant amount of money and having some sort of alcoholic drink from the bar of his new residence, Amanda is staunchly drinking a glass of milk. I am very sure it is supposed to remind us of her wholesomeness in both OTLimit and in Savior. A nice literary ploy, reinforcing the scene with symbols. Good for SMK!
And yeah, I am very convinced the worm farm was a deliberate tie-in to the plot as well, although subtle. The volcano project tied in to the VMothers theme, the worms tie into OTLimit’s fish theme, and (ok, looking ahead, sorry …) as I beta DMLNTrails we see that Jamie’s science fair project again carries the theme.
SMK also loves to give lines that drop hints. Witness Billy in TTTAA’Changing saying “the clock is ticking” in reference to their time to figure this out running out.
Rambling along, in FRaul, wasn’t there a reference to a documentary on earthworms there? And there Raul is stuck in a damp nasty earthy-smelling root cellar. I think all these things are 100% on purpose, and yet I never noticied or appreciated a one of them until yuku and JWWMe! Yay SMK and all its wonderful fans!
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I think this also builds on Brand and breaking the stereotypes. A grandmother looking at a sexy lingerie catalogue. I only recall Dotty dating in Artful Dodger. Did she date in any of the other past episodes? We don’t really know much about Amanda’s father. Was he very conservative? When and how did he die? We get the impression that Amanda was daddy’s girl. I agree with what has been said that Amanda is suppressing her feelings. That’s the problem. We know that these two have had a strong attraction since the very beginning and both have worked hard to keep those feelings buried. Everyone is getting ready to get angry at Lee for his actions this episode; however, he doesn’t know how Amanda feels, since she is hiding those feelings. He is growing emotionally, but he may not be willing to take a risk unless he reasonably certain hat his feelings will be returned.
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You make a very good point. Perhaps Lee thinks (if he has ever consciously thought about it which I doubt) he’s been ‘friend zoned’ by Amanda (LOL!). She certainly acts very differently from the other women he’s known and while she’s given him indications that she cares about him as a friend, she doesn’t moon over him and goes to candlelit dinners with other men. Poor, poor clueless Lee.
I really don’t get angry at Lee in this episode other than the “Oh MY GAWD HOW CAN MEN BE SOOOOOOO DENSE!” kind of way. I have to admit, reading Petra’s analysis (on smk-land) of this episode helped change some of my opinions of Lee in the episode, but more on that later. 🙂
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I really like both of these comment Cindy and LAAL. I don’t get mad at Lee either. I am looking forward to getting into each and every little nuance of this episode. Both Lee and Amanda made some choices as they dealt with their growing relationship and now they have come to another threshold. I don’t think any of their choices were ever the wrong choice through out their journey. I think they chose to respond to each other out of love and respect based on where they were at the moment. But now they are in a new moment and they have some new choices to make.
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Nope sorry I am just gonna get angry. I reserve that right. And it’s not just because Lee is so dense in this episode. I can’t talk about what really ticked me off yet but it’s coming.
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I’ll defend that right Misty! 🙂 I don’t think anyone is going to try and tell anyone they can’t feel a certain way 🙂 it’s all good! I’ll be interested to hear what makes you made and why. I’m only now stopping to think because of yours and LAAL’s comments – gosh.. why aren’t I angry anymore??
Hang in there!!!! I’ll look forward to a Misty rant! Let Lee have it if you like! 🙂 or oopsie.. errr were you thinking of getting angry at someone other than Lee?
I think I get a bit Narky with Leslie.. but I haven’t written that part yet.. ready for the next post? lol.. I might publish a new one now before everyone vanishes for the weekend.. (and I’ll publish the next in two days)
err then we will have actually seen Lee and can continue this conversation haaa!
Love your honesty Misty – go for it!
byeeee
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I’m gonna get mad at Lee. I actually thought Leslie was quite lovely. I’m really curious to know what you don’t like about her. Part of what really ticks me off this episode is not just how Lee treats Amanda(though I could get going about that too)but I really didn’t like how Lee treated Leslie. It’s one thing when Lee and Amanda are trying to figure out there own drama amongst themselves but when they are involving innocent bystanders I find that distasteful. Okay I really don’t think Amanda did anything wrong in this episode. There are episodes when I think maybe Amanda gets a little more involved than she should because on some level whoever the guy is he is gonna come to second to Lee. I just don’t see that being very intentional on her part and is probably a big part of the reason she doesn’t get that involved. What gets me about Lee in this episode as I just don’t see him being as dense as everyone else does. It’s not like I think he woke up one day and consciously decided he wanted a deeper romantic relationship but isn’t willing to risk that with Amanda yet and in the process ends up hurting Amanda. but as he’s doing it I think on some level Lee is aware of what he is doing. The only think I give him credit for is he realizes he is failing miserably at what he’s doing and he cuts the crap out pretty quick.
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Hey Misty.. there’s lots here!I don’t want to get into discussion of what’s ahead though..so I look forward to discussing this with you more when we get there..
Look forward to hearing your thoughts on the next post which is up now Everyone!!!!
I’m heading off now.. byeee!
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Hiya Cindy!
I haven’t read yuku.. don’t tell me – I prefer to not read what others made of the episode while I’m still trying to figure out what this episode is all about! I’m glad you found it insightful though!
ROFL.. I like to think Lee is ‘so dense’ as you put it because his feelings are so strong, deep and buried.. and it’s scary!! So I now tend to look at Lee’s cluelessness as a demonstration of just how crazy about Amanda he is haaaa 😉
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hiya LAAL!
This sounds good to me! I confess the last time I wrote about this episode I was cranky with Lee during the dress scene that’s coming, but having already written the post covering that scene by now- I can say that this time around I’ve felt no anger.. we can discuss the details when we get there but now I’ve actually been following the character’s journey carefully, I don’t feel angry with Lee at all!!
So I’m not ready to get angry with Lee.. some may, but I’m not guessing how people are going to react – lol I’ve learned from experience that you can’t guess! 🙂
Like what you say about Amanda.. It’s only now that Amanda is beginning to realise her true feelings.. and that maybe she has not managed to keep them so platonic as she was hoping.. I certainly don’t expect Lee to have any idea – he has enough trouble figuring out his own feelings! Amanda’s reactions though will give him some clues .. but I’ll expand on this when applicable.. we still haven’t seen Lee yet in this episode! 🙂
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I LIKE all the comments here! So much of what I would have to say has already been said.
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Okay first let’s get the outfit out of the way. Sorry but I hate it more than the hair don’t. I guess I am old fashioned but to me a tie is something a man wears and I just like men to look masculine and women to look feminine. Hate it.
Now as for how sexually repressed Amanda is here, I don’t get it. I use to think it was just she was uncomfortable thinking of her mother sexually but it really seems like more than than that. In the beginning Amanda seemed like to me to be a woman who took sex very seriously but not someone who was offended by it. I mean good god how do you do you even get so close to a man like Lee Stetson if you are offended by sex. I don’t usually care to discuss my views on sex as in my opinion it is a private thing that isn’t anyone’s business but those involved. But even as sexy as I think Lee is the amount of women I picture him having been with borders on the ick factor. I know at this point Lee and Amanda seem to keep their love lives separate from their relationship(for the most part) but c’mon she knows who he is.
Watching this show now with an adult perspective and not a kid’s or a teenager’s I actually do see Amanda becoming more sexually repressed as time goes by, and I don’t see a lack of continuity with the sexy night gown. If that was the way Amanda approached solving the problems in her marriage and ultimately it didn’t work, it could actually give her an opposing view point on the issue. And I almost think being around Lee all the time could have almost subconsciously forced Amanda to repress herself. I think she was always attracted to him but was well aware of how he was. Unlike Lee, I always thought Amanda was aware of the effect Lee could have on her if she didn’t guard herself against it. She had to turn those feelings off, because the truth is once upon a time getting involved with Lee would have been a mistake and I think Amanda would have gotten hurt.
There has always been such an underlying attraction between these two in my opinion, but preseason 3 I think both Lee and Amanda knew acting on it would be a mistake. I think up until season 3 Lee was able to channel that sexual energy into other relationships because he could compartamentalize his feelings for Amanda and keep them separate from his physical desires. Amanda on the hand just isn’t built that way. I’ve seen her smitten a few times but I just don’t think she could ever completely give herself to another man when she had such a strong attraction to Lee, but on the other hand she wasn’t going to completely give herself to him either when he couldn’t give her what she really needed. I think circumstances have almost forced Amanda to repress herself sexually. Maybe that explains the hair don’t and brings the whole tie thing full circle. Maybe Amanda doesn’t see herself very womanly at this point, especially after 2 years of subconsciously comparing herself to the bimbo brigade.
This episode is even more potent to me now after watching a season 4 episode in which Dotty has a male suitor over and Amanda leaves the house and warns her she probably won’t be home until 1 or 2 in the morning so Dotty shouldn’t worry about her showing up. Definately a different attitude, maybe one of a woman more secure in her sexuality knowing that the man she wants, wants her just as much. Okay, I have to say I actually always thought that even though she fought it Lee had a little too much power over how Amanda saw herself. I was pretty much able to forgive Lee that the first 2 years because I don’t think he really did abuse that or take advantage of it too much. But at this point it’s like grow up and decide to go after what you want or let it go for good.. Okay, I guess he kind of does do that this episode, but I hate the way he goes about it.
Love this episode for the character and relationship development, don’t like Lee at all. Actually find this episode painful to watch. It’s right up there with Lost and Found to me. It’s another episode where Lee is experiencing something he has to go through, but it is really hard to love him while he’s going through it. Guess I’ll save the rest of my comments for going through the rest of the episode.
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Good thoughts Misty.
I wouldn’t call Amanda repressed in her attitude to sexuality though. I see her more as suppressing. I think she probably has a fairly healthy approach to sex and keeps it in perspective with everything else in her life. Her mother has more freedom at this point in her life. But Amanda at this point in her life has two pre-teen boys to think about. So if she has become less obvious about sex, I think it is mainly to do with her being aware of her responsibility to set a good and healthy example for the boys, as well as realising that she needs to keep a lid on her physical attraction to Lee Stetson. This is getting tougher for her, so naturally she takes a cautious approach when matters of sex are raised – such as here with Dotty being somewhat overt about her inner woman.
There is a large body of fan fiction that paints her as being quite prudish and/or unworldly in sexual matters. This doesn’t quite sit right for me when compared with Amanda’s life experience and her normal behaviour. She certainly doesn’t have any hang-ups about dating – we’ve seen her do that frequently enough in the first 2 seasons, even if sometimes the guy turned out to be the baddie. She does know how to be an attractive, vibrant woman without coming across as willing to jump into bed at the drop of a hat. Some of the evening gowns she wears are quite revealing – she is clearly comfortable with her body and her femininity. But, I think it is very important to her to find the right man before indulging in a physical relationship, and I don’t necessarily think she considers marriage the only relationship within which a sexual relationship can occur. However, the “right” man would definitely be a marriage prospect. I suspect there just hasn’t been anyone that fitted the bill since Joe.
Good point though about her maybe thinking that enhancing her physical relationship with Joe might have made him stick around. If that is so she may be more aware of not going down that track with another man as a means to develop or enhance a relationship.
As for Lee, well I wouldn’t label him as a total whore. Yes, he’s sure to have bedded more than his share of women over the years but I would also see him as exercising some caution and common-sense in this regard. As an intelligence operative he would need to be very aware of who he was with – I’m sure he carried out numerous background checks and follow-ups on every women he was with. Some of the women in his black books he would have had ongoing if intermittent liaisons over the years, so it’s not as if he’s taking a different women to bed every other night. There would also have been periods of time when he was on assignment or too just too busy to indulge his physical desires, so what I’m trying to say is there would have periods of time when there was a long time between drinks so to speak. 😉
I’ve gone on far to long and everyone probably stopped reading a few paragraphs back. For those who made it through, I hope my thoughts make sense.
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kiwismh, I followed you through your whole thought process. I agree about Lee. I think he was pretty careful about who he was involved with. He obviously had some longer term relationships, such as Eva and he was with Randi for a bit there. He even mentioned someone in 3 Faces of Emily who had dumped him for an airline pilot and seemed somewhat miffed about it. And of course there was Jillian/Gillian? who he was supposed to be going to the Poconos with in OMIT.
I always saw Lee as a someone who dated quite a bit, but I don’t feel as if every date necessarily ended in sex. I’m not saying that it didn’t happen and I’m not naive enough to think that Lee was some choir boy. But if he were that active I don’t think Amanda (or the rest of us) would be that attracted to him. I think as the walk through this episode continues there will probably be more discussions as to where Lee’s thoughts have been and whether or not he has been dating or at the point where he’s ‘between drinks’ as you say, kiwismh.
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Wow, a lot to take in but I think agree with everything you said. It never has sat right with me that so many people have seen Amanda as being prudish or unexperienced. I certainly don’t think she has the kind of experience Lee has as I don’t think she would engage in casual relationships but in the beginning I think Amanda is portrayed as quite a beautiful, vibrant woman who loves life and fully enjoys it. To me that speaks of someone who is probably quite capable of expressing herself sexually under the right circumstances. It is only as I see her having to willingly stop what her feelings are for Lee that I see Amanda repressing herself or as you said surpressing herself. I am not even convinced that Joe and Lee were the only men Amanda was ever with. In season 1 it says she and Dean use to go away together which could hint at an intimate relationship, and in season 4 Lee seems curious about other men Amanda had dated. If there hadn’t been anyone else I think she probably just would have told him that. I just don’t see Amanda taking sex casually and like I said I think circumstances kind of forced her to shut that part of her off.
And I don’t think Lee is a whore. I never really agreed with the interpretation that seems to be out there of him that he just had one night stands and never cared about any of the women he was with. I always thought of him having more casual affairs with women he knew but who weren’t really looking for a committment. Exactly like you said he is too smart to put himself in a situation where he could be compromised. And while all we really get to see during SMK is Lee’s affairs with bimbos I always got the impression that his history consisted more of women that were in the same place in their life as he was, often the same profession, so they just really weren’t looking for a committment. Lee never struck me as a man who would turn down an affair that was based on nothing but sex, I just don’t see that as being the only kind of relationships he ever had. I actually always kind of thought the reason that is all we get to see during SMK was because after Eva Lee wasn’t going to take the chance of letting a woman get close again. Whatever, I’ll blame her for anything.
And anyway if Amanda really was so prudish I just don’t think she ever would have fallen in love with Lee in the first place. While I can’t see Amanda being entirely comfortable with the casual way Lee approaches sex, she doesn’t seem to judge him. If she really had a hang up with sex there is just no way she’d ever fall for a man who led the life he once did. but again I don’t think Lee is a whore. I know I said I imagine the amount of partners he’s had as being kind of icky, and I do, I’ve never even agreed with the interpretation of Lee as a womanizer. To me a womanizer is a man who lies to women and uses them and leads them on. While to some extent Lee always has to lie to the women he’s with because he can’t tell them who he really is, I never got the impression he led women on. I think he was probably always honest about the fact that he wasn’t interested in a comittment. I see him as a playboy, not a womanizer.
Whatever, I agree it does seem to be common place among the fan fiction world that Lee was just a total unfeeling womanizer before Amanda and that Amanda was just totally unawakened sexually before Lee came along. I never saw either one of them like that. I think Amanda probably was the first person Lee ever loved totally and completely with all of himself, but that doesn’t mean he was just an unfeeling bastard before that. And I think Lee probably did stir a passion in Amanda that no other man ever had, but that doesn’t mean she was a total prude when it came to sex.. I think people also need to keep in mind this is the 80’s and women just were not as free to be as open out sex as men were.
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This is a really interesting topic and I think the show has danced around all these ideas from the beginning but here it is brought to the forefront by Dottie’s actions, and I bet that is on purpose. Here is a parent transitioning from a marriage into another intimate relationship and I think Amanda’s reaction is interesting, and it happens in front of the boys as well, but we will get to that. I wonder if the issue isn’t that transitioning. Amanda does seem to have a high view of marriage and I would think that along with that would come a high view of the sexual relationship between a man and a woman. And I think her comment to Penny about the sexy nightgown speaks to the fact that she still valued her relationship with Joe as special, she hadn’t thrown the baby out with the bathwater. But we also don’t get the impression that her relationship with Dean was something fiery and passionate, or even deep. I do think Amanda may have been a bit surprised by her intense attraction to Lee especially because from the first time she was aware that he was a lady’s man and enjoyed flirting at the least. She learns early on that he has many women visitors. And as their relationship progresses they do develop a very deep and special care for one another. So her relationship with Lee not only has this sexual attraction but it has become a very important and even intimate friendship. I think Amanda knows that she knows Lee in a unique way. Yes, he is becoming a candidate for that one type of relationship that she would hold out for. And yet, as far as she knows he has maintained his lifestyle and would show no interest in having the type of relationship that she would require. I bet that would be very confusing for her. And if one is confused and holds marriage and sex in a high place they may be tempted to try and focus a lot of energy on other things. I think suppression is the right word.
I really don’t think that Lee has maintained his level of activity since we first met him. I wouldn’t be surprised if after Eva he did become a bit more calloused about things, but he never could be a James Bond. Even though he might use his relationships as a recreational activity, I don’t think he is capable of being completely calloused. But I do think that once he began really working with Amanda that his dating would have tapered off a bit. In fact I would venture to say that it has been a while for him, at least that is how I view it in my SMK world. I think he may have given it a valiant effort with Randi, but she never seemed very impressed with him, so I am not sure if he got over his awakening experience with Amanda in SOS.
I bet this is a theme we will keep visiting through out this episode because I can think of a few scenes that I would like to allude to in order to explain my thinking… but I will be good 🙂
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Agree with everything you’ve said Morley, especially about Lee’s dating tapering off. In my SMK world I don’t see him having a physical relationship with any woman to this point since he and Randi parted company.
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Morely, I like so much of what you say here. Especially the parts about her relationship with Dean, that she may be surprised by her attraction to Lee, that their relationship has become an intimate friendship, that she is not aware of the inward changes in Lee, and that Lee was rocked to his socks in SOS and was never quite the same after it.
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Where’s that d##m Like button?!? I have always felt the same way. And I really don’t see either of them being so into each other if Amanda was a real prude (as opposed to cautious) or Lee was just a man-ho. There’s so much more to each of their stories and y’all help reveal the complexities so very well. Good job all!
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Man-ho??? R. O. F. L. M. B. O.!!!! Love it, Jule!!! I was going to write up some long comment about who I agree with and what I agreed with them on, but d##mitall, Jule, has just made me crack up and so I’m just going to save myself some time and “ditto” her! I want to get to post 2 before April arrives anyway!
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Ah, Misty, your insightful comments have spared me so much effort. 😉
Ditto.
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More good thoughts Misty. I agree with everything you’ve said here. If the comments so far for this first post are anything to go by, we’re in for some mega-comments for upcoming postings. Yeee-haaaa! 🙂
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LOL so true Kiwismh!!!
I am loving all these comments! I want to respond to everything!…but not enough time! Don’t hold back though! feel free to express away! 🙂
I’m enjoying your discussions here everyone!
Ah I remember your post with the red rose on the chair Morley! 🙂 I did notice Amanda doesn’t have on the shiny red earrings with this outfit again that she had on in BO.. lol..
I know different people define ‘prudish’ in different ways, but given how you have defined it Misty – I can say I agree that I’ve never seen Amanda as a prude, not that I’ve given it a lot of detailed thought – but as you guys say.. she has healthy self confidence, dates a lot.. and IMHO was open to maybe something with Byron Jordan later on… ahem.. I agree with how you put it Morley.. that Amanda has a high view of relationships – and has to watch out for her family.. so while she is no prude, nor is she unthinking or terribly carefree either. make sense?
I thought kiwismh put it well when she said she didn’t think Amanda was ‘suppressed’ but that she was ‘suppressing’ – this is not normal Amanda.. it’s just a situation she currently finds herself in.
To be honest, I don’t think we saw any disapproval from Amanda toward her mother in this scene- the disapproval was directed at the catalogue.
At this point, I just found it interesting that Amanda was so disapproving of the catalogue in general – removed from any knowledge that her mother may be buying that stuff.
I felt that could be hinting that Amanda has been downplaying her sexuality in order to deal with her growing feelings for Lee… it’s a coping mechanism.. and not how Amanda would normally operate (for a season in her life, it might be necessary!).
I think this repression is since MBF – she was IMHO open to Byron Jordan’s advances.. but well.. that was all a huge disaster! She liked him, he got murdered the moment she left and she got arrested for it!! Oh my!! That’s enough to send me into repressed mode for a bit I think! lol!!! Oh and to top it all off? Lee was even more adorable having helped her and come through for her with the murder charge, and getting her old job back- with a raise!!!..So unfair of him! 😉 tee hee. What’s a girl to do??!!! Talk about lots of confusion for Amanda! No wonder she has tried to suppress her needs!
I saw Amanda at the end of this scene as a bit confused at what was going on.. and almost not wanting to know what was going on! She scoots out of there pretty fast!!! but what she thinks of Dotty? – for me this will get dealt with later (when the parcel arrives!) so I’ll hold off discussing that for now.
Good self control there Morley 😉 I bet you are writing down notes to remind yourself of the thoughts that come up- so when we get to a certain scene you will remember to share it with us!!! (or at least I hope you are so you don’t forget to share all your wonderful thoughts with us!!! )
Same goes for everyone! I write down notes for things that are coming up later so I don’t forget to blog about them.. but still I forget things! oh well.. that’s where we help each other no? 🙂
LOL at all the discussion of Lee and how much he has dated and how much of a womaniser he is/was.. we haven’t even seen him yet in this episode! haaaaa!!! whooo this is gonna be so good!!! It feels a bit strange, I’ve never looked at this episode before, without already having walked through We’re off to see the Wizard and the lessons Lee learns there about his ways! hmm!!
Bye!
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It also occurred to me that a few fanfics take the characters of Amanda and Lee too far in the other direction, i.e. over sexualised in an unhealthy sort of way. I don’t enjoy reading those – not because I’m a prude but usually because the characters aren’t Lee and Amanda anymore, they are different personalities and don’t display the respect towards each other that Lee and Amanda would. Sex can be written well but very few people have the talent to write it well. In amongst the adult fanfic there are a handful of real gems that are well worth reading.
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Hear Hear! Are you talking about the ones where Amanda and Lee sleep together in season 3, season 2, early season 1? (I kid you not!) There is a really funny story (which I lost the link when my last computer crashed) where the author makes fun of all the over-the-top out-of-character tropes found in SMK fan fiction. I try not to get too irked with the fan fiction stories (I mean, Lee and Amanda are only fictional characters, right?) but really — have some respect for the characters and their journey. Sheesh! /end rant.
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Hey Cindy, yes the fanfic is good to dip into every now and then and I like to keep links to the good authors. I don’t mind AU so long as it is well written and in keeping with the personalities of the characters. And AU is pretty much a requirement from about half way through S4. At that point the show went AU. 😉
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Ooops, hope I haven’t stirred up a hornets nest Iwsod. There will be some vigorous discussions over coming posts I’m sure. 😉
This is the first time I have gone through the episodes in the “right” order so it will be an interesting journey. It was hard to reconcile the anomalies particularly in the first 5 episodes of S3. Having said that, I would never have thought OTL would be before ALLA so for me this will be a whole new way of looking at the development of the relationship and the journey of the two characters.
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Hornet’s nest kiwismh? about what? all good!
Do head over to ned’s and share some of your fave fan fics over there if you like.. your thoughts may be resonating with others who have read lots of fan fic and they may be keen to read your recommendations!
I’ve only read very few fan fics.. one of Paula’s.. some tagalogues.. and Morley’s vignettes.. but I think it’s safe to assume fan fic is a matter of personal taste..
Oh and by the way – I forgot to mention Jestress I loved your little impromptu fan fic there! rofl!!! yes! that’s quite enough sightseeing for one day! tee heee..
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Oh, just thinking I might be generating too much comment. Can there be too much comment about this episode? 😉 I shall try to restrain myself. It’s been great stress relief for me today to have a good ol’ write about SMK.
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Impossible!!! too much comment impossible!! I say let’s try and break the record! tee hee.. though I think I’ll be counting on you guys to do most of the commenting 😉 I’ll sure love reading them 🙂
As much as I enjoy Mr Brand, it’s not a top five fave.. and it’s a joy to have finally reached these big awesome episodes full of Lee/Amanda goodies!!!!
byee!
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O’Keefe’s goon reminds me a little of Peter Lorre in the Maltese Falcon. Peter Lorre was much scarier though.
Amanda’s outfit – Meh, okay I guess and it is keeping with the era. Again I say, those wide skirts are so unflattering. The tie seems redundant even as an accessory. Is this one of Lee’s old ties? Why do I seem to remember him wearing a white tie at some point. Hmmm, could just be my imagination.
I’m not sure I like the bright red colour – an interesting choice to have Amanda’s dressed in a colour more suited to a harlot whilst displaying perhaps somewhat prudish or at least slightly embarrassed reaction to Dotty’s reading material.
I’m over-thinking this again I think.
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Amanda in red. We don’t see her in red often. In ACM Kid, and then I think it has only been this outfit? Are there other times, up to this point? She wore this in VM And for some reason I think she was wearing this in the beginning of BO. In each of these episode she was rather feisty and assertive wasn’t she. She was full of passion and spunk. That is what red is supposed to stand for: “Red is energizing. It excites the emotions and motivates us to take action.
It signifies a pioneering spirit and leadership qualities, promoting ambition and determination. It is also strong-willed and can give confidence to those who are shy or lacking in will power.
Being the color of physical movement, the color red awakens our physical life force. It is the color of sexuality and can stimulate deeper and more intimate passions in us, such as love and sex on the positive side or revenge and anger on the negative. It is often used to express love, as in Valentine’s Day, however it relates more to sexuality and lust, rather than love – love is expressed with pink.” From an article on color psychology.
Interesting…
Now I am sure that I have rambled much longer than any of you has attention for, sorry. This episode may bring out the worst in me… 😉
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Love Dotty’s healthy attitude towards romance and sex – no unhealthy hang-ups or denial there. Go Dotty! 🙂 Having said that, I always thought Amanda’s prudish reaction was mostly about being uncomfortable with her mother’s seemingly much more uninhibited attitude towards romance and sex and all things associated, such as sexy lingerie 😉 It is naturally kind’ve uncomfortable to think of your parent/s as romantic/intimate creatures.
But there is also an element of Amanda’s inner struggle here, of her not being willing to give free rein to her own romantic/intimate feelings towards a certain someone. This must be getting so difficult for her now with Lee consistently displaying more and more of the qualities that attract her to him. I even think that somewhere in the depths of her consciousness she has started to think of him as her man.
Her heart and body are giving her the message, but her mind still isn’t ready to acknowledge a relationship with Lee as a realistic possibility even though he is beginning to look and act more like her ideal life partner.
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Like this, kiwismh!
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I totally agree…I always figured Amanda was uncomfortable with the thought of her mother having an active sex life!
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Over The Limit! Yay! This is going to be a great walk through. I am giddy with excitement about all the wonderful comments to come.
Rachael, I agree with you about Amanda’s outfit. I like it. It seems sort of bright and airy and colorful. I don’t mind the tie either. It seems like something I would have worn and probably did.
Again, I think Amanda’s journey has been somewhat hard to figure out, but I think it’s getting a little clearer. In some ways she does seem to be more prudish than Dotty. Even though Amanda has dated and with the exception of Dean, those were all so superficial. Even with Bryce in Spiderweb she told Dotty that sometimes she cared and sometimes she didn’t. She doesn’t seem to fully commit to a relationship.
Dotty and Amanda had marital relationships that ended differently. Dotty lost a husband and for whatever the cause of death it wasn’t a choice to leave. In some ways it was probably easier for Dotty to be able to move forward and allow herself to experience relationships again. She had a great one and is able to move forward. Maybe Amanda’s hesitancy is due to what happened with Joe. We only know at this point that she is divorced. We don’t know why, but we do know that a choice or decision was made to end the marriage. Someone left and moved on. Even after being with Dean for a while Amanda still wasn’t ready. We can see that the choice/decision wasn’t an easy one and it has left some sort of scar on Amanda. She seems to have definitely strong ideas and feelings about relationships and marriage.
Her initial unease around Lee in certain close situations was probably due to those feelings and her crush on Lee. Once she was able to rein in that crush and focus on the friendship she was able to relax a bit more. In SOS she was more worried about the lack of notification than the room situation.
Amanda’s prudishness may have also developed over time and having young boys in the house. She knows the type of person she needs to present to her boys and has probably stayed pretty low key. Sometimes parents and children can have completely opposite personalities. Look at the differences between Jamie and Phillip. Phillip is probably more like Dotty and Jamie more like Amanda. I have a friend who was a complete tomboy growing up and she was so confused by her daughter who loved frilly dresses and doing her hair. Another friend was the complete opposite. She loved frilly dresses and hair and make-up and her daughter just wanted to wear jeans and play in the dirt.
There is one point later on in this episode where Amanda seems either less prudish or is trying too hard. I don’t think it comes off very well. Maybe I need to review that part again to be sure. In general, Amanda has attracted quite a bit of attention without having to be anyone other than herself. And that is someone who comes off as pretty wholesome. I’m thinking of her reaction to the ‘trick book’ in ALSALS.
As far as what she told Penny, maybe it was something that worked for a while in her own marriage. We just don’t yet know why it exactly fell apart or even if it stopped working. Maybe Amanda is shocked that her mother is thinking of this when she isn’t involved with someone or even married to someone. Maybe I have no idea what I’m talking about.
Also, Rachael, I agree about liking this season so much. I like all the build up and anticipation and the ever growing closeness.
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Oh boy! Here we go… as I sit down pulling my laptop towards me rubbing my hands together… 😀
“Rawlings: priorities change.. even allies.” This line sets the stage for the whole episode. Actually I think it is really clever the way they have the Case plot and Amanda’s home front plot support the relationship plot in this episode. There is so much to see in this one.
“Is this a lack of continuity that Amanda no longer sees the power of a sexy nightgown?? or are we seeing here that maybe Amanda has shut down the sexy part of herself?? (Maybe she has set a ‘limit’ on that part of herself for a while now?? and gee.. why would she be doing that huh???!!!! Struggling with certain feelings for a certain someone???!!) whoooo could that partially explain the (duh duh duuuhhh!!!!) Hair – don’t????!!!”
Yes! Yes!!! it does! I think she is coming to the end of her coping mechanisms. She compartmentalized too. Focus on the job, focus on the professional Amanda, but not the woman Amanda. But she is still there. Remember the three cries of a woman’s heart? the desire to be romanced, the desire to unveil beauty and the desire to be part of a glorious adventure.
Well she is good on that glorious adventure thing, but she has a bit to go with the other two and I think she may have been trying to stuff those two. We get to watch her become no longer able to stuff them. Hee hee.
As far as her reaction to Dotty… it has got to be hard to stuff that womanly side of you (oh and the milk glass is perfect) when your own mother is being very aware of how womanly she is right in front of you. We didn’t see or hear much of either Amanda or Dotty dating in season 2 did we? There was only Bryce Topper (was that his name) right? And that was right after SOS. So I do think Amanda’s focus has been on being a working Mom and her mother as her helper in those roles.(Plus there was all that financial stress too.) When Amanda mentioned the sexy nightgown in season 1 she was still dating Dean, I think. When I think about Amanda between then and now, I see her at the beginning of the show as being asleep and then awakened by her attraction to Lee and then she had to stuff it ( make her newly awakened womanly side lay down and play dead???) and focus on the other aspects of herself as a woman. So here her cage is getting rattled. Lets see what happens… giddy laugh 😉
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Love your thoughtful analysis Morley. Boy is Amanda in for a big awakening! big big smile I join you in your giddy laugh and an extended trip down the rabbit hole!
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Also like this, Morley!
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I always laugh at this scene for a couple of reasons. My youngest, almost 38 by the way, covers her ears and does the “lalalala I can’t hear you” thing if there is a hint of innuendo or blush, shocked face a semi-intimate, usually fairly innocent, comment made by my husband, though she doesn’t mind laying it all on us about her details. (We call her Miss TMI.) The other thing is that my father was the president of a lingerie company and we would get free robe, nightgowns, and goodies. Every time I came home with a friend from college or work, my dad would ask if she needed a robe or something and say to look in the hallway closet and take what you wanted. Sounded so funny, but he was just Mr. Generosity.
I miss him.
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Personally, I like the couple on the back of the catalog. With the sun hat and sunglasses, they look like tourists out sightseeing. I think the guy even has a camera around his neck. Shocking! lol!
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Still thinking about the tourists. When things got a little boring at work today, I started imagining their conversation:
Woman (seeing the couple shown on the catalog cover): I wonder why that couple is standing out on that balcony in their jammies? Don’t they know that we can see them?
Man (adjusting the zoom on his camera): You’d think so, wouldn’t you? Hey, I can read the tag on the woman’s nightie right through the fabric! It says “Rebecca’s–”
Woman (snatching the camera away): Give me that! That’s enough “sight-seeing” for today!
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I am not sure what to make of Amanda’s prudish behaviour. Maybe she is in deep denial/repression so she can continue to work with Hotstuff day in and day out. Poor Amanda, she is in for a lot of shocks to the system this episode.
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It feels like forever since I commented. And, it HAS been forever – since I think somewhere in the beginning of the last third of season 2’s episodes!. (Life just gets super busy sometimes – but I’ve been looking forward to and reading every post) :). I LOVE this season. In fact, I love it much more than 4. I think the anticipation of what will become Amanda and Lee, and watching their growth and movement towards each other is so completely fabulous. SOOOO much growth coming from Lee (not to mention, super swoony moments; one of which is in this episode). Over the Limit is one of my favorites – so dang excited we’re here. 🙂 🙂 🙂
I agree with you Iwsod, Amanda gets seriously prudish in this scene. I love the fact that Dotty is so not prudish! Well, at least there is hope – you can’t stay too inhibited when you have a Lee to chase after. 🙂
You might just hate me for this, but this is one of my favorite outfits of Amanda’s. I don’t mind the tie at all. I think it looks appropriate for the time period, and it’s not one of those big, bulky things you sometimes saw women wear with blouses and suits in the ’80s. The color looks great on Amanda. And, best of all, the shoulder pads are barely there! You shouldn’t even worry about the tie, not when she has good hair and little to no shoulder pads this season!!! Thank God!!! The scene coming up (sorry if I’m jumping the gun), you know, at the end of the rally; she just looks so, so pretty. (Can’t WAIT for that scene!!!)
Oh! And I never caught it before that the magazine is “Sunwest Living”. Here in the U.S., “Southern Living” is hugely popular and my mom always had a subscription to it when I was growing up. I’m sure it was a play on that – never would have noticed it if it wasn’t for your brilliant blog, Iwsod!
🙂
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I was thinking of “Midwest Living” too. That’s pretty popular in doctor’s offices around where I live.
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I agree…I love this season also!!! Even more so than season 4
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