So we left Lee and Amanda at quite a special moment between them…
Having had her caring affirmed by Lee, Amanda chooses to steer the conversation away from how much they care about each other, and back onto the situation at hand.. look forward to hearing your thoughts on this..
Amanda: So, why did Paul Barnes give you the codename Scarecrow?
Everyone remember the last and only other time Amanda asked Lee this question?!!! She’s wanted to know from the beginning (and so have we!) HERE is a link to the scene in Magic Bus.. but alas.. I didn’t do much dialogue back then! (I’ll fix that once I’ve finished walking through the whole show- I’ll redo season 1)
Sooo…. here is the dialogue from magic bus.. in the middle of a very cool scene where they are both very curious about each other!
From Magic bus: [thanks Claudia for the transcripts!!!]
Lee: All right, what is it that you want to know?
(Amanda smiles, pleased. She shrugs.)
Amanda: Well . . . why is your codename Scarecrow?
Lee: That’s very personal.
(He walks past her.)
Amanda: Oh, terrific.
(He stops and turns around She turns too so that they are facing each other again.)
Lee: Look, I’m sorry. You just happened to ask the one thing that was very personal, that’s all.
Knowing what we now know, it’s understandable why Lee responded the way he did way back then!
I love to remember this moment.. and compare them in Magic Bus with the way they are now!! Sooo how will Lee respond to this question now?
Let’s see! Back to Wizard!
Lee laughs quietly to himself: You’ll have to ask the Wizard… [No rebuff anymore! hooray!! Seems Lee doesn’t really know?! Oh and lol it’s not because of Dorothy?!] …And 10 years ago Paul Barnes was the Wizard…
It’s flashback time again!!! cue the sideburns! We see Scarecrow, Dorothy, the wizard and the sideburns back at the airport again..
…Equal parts hocus-pocus, black magic and pure bull. He formed the Oz Network as a special taskforce to handle any crisis. [Interesting.. a very vague description of what the Oz network actually does!] …When he picked me for it, it was like being drafted by the Yankees. It was the best….
… The other team members were codenamed Dorothy and Tin Man. [Okay, I’m leaning toward ‘Dorothy’ being only a codename.. but.. think what you like! Seems we never get to see Tin man, not even in the flashback?]
…They had a line on a Soviet operation stealing anti-tank missiles from Fort Mead…
..The missiles were hidden in boxes of greenhouse roses, and flown out of Silver Springs airport….
…Tin Man went undercover with the Russians…
[Ohhh so are we to assume one of the guys in the hockey mask is the tin man? Sorry if I’m being a bit slow! It’s been years since I saw all this!]
…He was with them when we brought the hammer down….
(We see Scarecrow, Dorothy, Wizard and the sideburns taking cover under an airplane wing- Paul points and gives Dorothy her orders )
[Did Lee see Tin man die? why does he never wonder if he is not still alive? We only had Harry being a triple agent last week in Weasel.. maybe Tin man is a double.. or is that a triple.. ohhh my head hurts…]
(Paul also gives Lee his orders.. and they all separate to make their move on the Russians)
LOL.. Umm shouldn’t the three of them like umm you know have some like cover to hide behind?? lol!!
The Russians see these three coming for them.
LOL not quite sure how they could have spotted them 😉
The Russians hide behind the conveniently located stacks of boxes and take their convenient machine guns out of the open boxes and start shooting. how convenient!
We see both the Russians have machine guns and are shooting – so what are we suppose to make of this at this point? Is one of those masked men Tin man? or.. are we suppose to think neither is? and Tin man is already dead? (or off on a Caribbean island in hiding )
Lee doesn’t seem to address it..
We see lots of shooting going on.. and magically none of the bullets hit Lee! polite baddies!
Paul is seen shooting at Russians too.. and then an airplane appears in the sky.
We see Lee yell like in the first flashback: Dorothy!!!!
Again, the plane firing at Dorothy as she runs away.. she’s shot and falls to the ground [why would you just run in a straight line?? Umm wouldn’t you switch directions or something?? *shrug* what do I know..]
Then, Lee grabs his grenade and throws it at the two Russians (okay guess he knows they are both baddies and he is thinking neither is Tin man?!)
The Russians, the boxes and the roses go Kaboom..Do svidaniya Russians Baddies!!
Cool shot here of the explosion.. a very colourful one..
Nice touch.. as we see the flaming debris fall from they sky..and the torn apart roses raining down on Lee..
Then, one of the Russians is seen to climb on board the plane and make a getaway- one of the Russians survived that huge explosion? (how did he survive that?!) drat!!
(How do you say ‘I’ll be back’! in Russian? )
Love the artsy close up on the burning hockey mask surrounded by roses.
Shades of Andrew Lloyd Webber’s Phantom of the Opera no? What year was that?? Whooo the stage show started in 1986! SMK is inspiration?! ;)(Wizard aired on 30 Sep 1985) though the original novel dates back to 1910.. I’m not sure that the rose became part of the Phantom Motif until the musical.. can anyone shed some light on this?
Anyway.. I digress.. Phantom.. Wizard of oz.. lots of musicals going on!
Lee and Paul run for the plane shooting but it manages to get away.
Next thing we see Dorothy – no blood though.. lots of death and violence in this episode.. but never any blood..
We see Lee quietly turn Dorothy over..
Stunned he reaches out to hold her hand.
then, touch her face.
We see a close up on the rose on her chest.. and then once again we hear Lee’s voice in the present speaking to Amanda.
Lee: …And Dorothy died there with all the roses on the ground…
(Lee stands up)
…That’s why the smell of them makes me sick.
[Hmmm.. it didn’t ‘make you sick’ when Amanda gave you one in Over the Limit- ahem! And such a pivotal idea for Lee’s character.. hmm.. It does make sense if Wizard is first though.. Hmmm.. Could this help you figure out the order you prefer?? We’ll discuss this fully in the final post at the end of this episode at least.. I hope we will! ]
Lee takes a wad of cash out of his pocket and throws it on the table – whooo he paid for Amanda
Amanda: Yeah. Lee –
Lee’s not finished unloading.. phew.. when he decides to go for it- he really does go for it!
Lee: I swore to her then I’d find the one who sold us out, make him pay.
[Even then, Lee knew someone had sold them out..]
Amanda: Is it possible that it could have been the Wizard. [doh! No questions about Tin man?? and.. even more mysteriously.. why was there no Lion? LOL I’ve come up with a ridiculous theory on Neds– ha!]
Lee: It’s a good question. He never quite pulled out of it – we all assumed that’s why he drifted off. It’s not the same Wizard I knew. [but Lee did you really know him? seems you idealised him to me..]
A few thoughts/questions on this dialogue of Lee’s- Paul ‘drifted off’? what does this mean? and Paul never ‘pulled out of it’? – meaning the oz network? why would he? And.. like Lee, maybe he wants to catch Serdeych and seek justice for everyone. Why is that not considered? I find the whole ‘lets try and portray Paul as potentially the baddie’ a bit of a lame side plot..
gosh.. this is pretty full on.. I mean okay so Paul isn’t the genius he once was, does that automatically make him a traitor?! All rather black and white.. and to me a sign that Lee isn’t thinking clearly here!
Amanda: So you never found out who it was.
Lee: No. It’s a good chess move though. Killing Tin Man and Dorothy, nearly shutting down the Oz Network for good. It’s the kind of play I’d expect from Serdeych.
[So does Lee think Paul is Serdeych at this point or no? Lee seems to be double minded about this. Shutting down the Oz Network is not something the wizard wants – so why would Paul be behind everything? And when and how did he find out the Tin man had died? Was anyone at this point wondering about the Tin man? maybe I wasn’t .. I don’t remember!
Oh wait. I know who betrayed them! It was the sideburns!!!! nasty! whahahaa]
Amanda flatly: Heartless.
[thanks for the reminder Amanda! Was Paul’s cold hearted persona suppose to lead us to the idea that he was infact ‘heartless’?]
Lee and Amanda: Yeah.
Amanda is matter of fact, but Lee is deep in thought..he looks thoughtfully at Amanda here.
Lee reaches out again to take Amanda’s hand
…I’m really glad I told you,…
…you know that?…
…I’m getting a – a clearer picture in my head.
Isn’t this wonderful to watch! Love how Lee reaches for both her hands!!!
It seems this is all a bit of a revelation to Lee.. the whole idea of sharing your problems with someone.. he’s been the lone wolf for a long time [like Paul?!] – he seems to me to be realising here the value not just of Amanda specifically, but of being known by someone, and by being able to share all aspects of your life with someone- it feels pretty darn good. It’s a huge relief. And something Lee the astronaut, cellist, PI, whatever was never able to do- or even realised he could want to.. but here? he told Amanda he needed to talk, and was proactive about it. He chose to do this – and he is feeling pretty darn glad that he did
A little awakening here for Lee about how he has been living his life and his relationships.. maybe.. just maybe there is a better way to live?
What about Amanda here?? does anyone get the sense that she is wondering if this is more than friendship?
Well, for me.. I don’t get that sense at all here..whereas I did start to sense that in Over the Limit.. hmm!
For me, in this ep, Amanda is all about their friendship. In Over the Limit- the lines begin to blur a little..but hey.. this is just my own view we can come back to this more fully later
Feel free to share your own views- but discussing episode order fully will need to hold off till the end of this episode..
Amanda (gently): Lee, you know, maybe that’s where Dorothy really is….
…ought to talk to someone.
Lee: I thought that’s what I was doing.
[whoaaaaa!!! Is it just me or did Amanda really just put her foot in it?! Lee looks really hurt here! considering how hurt he was by her suggestion, his response is very mature. Good for Lee.. Having just been hurt, it would be classic Lee to get angry and pull back.. but he doesn’t do that here.. more progress!!
Maybe grief and trauma are the ‘logical explanations’ Amanda was talking of earlier for seeing pop up Dorothy!
Amanda doesn’t mean to hurt Lee though, that much is clear yes? ]
Amanda: No, I mean talk to someone. I don’t mean just anyone. I mean talk to some…
Lee: Yeah, yeah, you mean a shrink.
[Okay, Lee isn’t thrilled at the idea, but nor does he cut off Amanda Maybe in Lee’s world a shrink is someone that is seen as a threat, and not a help. Dr Pfaff was certainly not ‘helping’ Paul in that other scene!]
Amanda: You don’t have to call him a “shrink”. Now don’t you have a doctor at the Agency, somebody who understands the way an agent’s mind works when he’s under pressure. I mean, maybe he could tell you something that you’d never find out by yourself.
Lee: Yeah – he just might.
Wow.. it seems Lee has not just shut down the moment Amanda said something slightly threatening.. more progress!
And.. he has decided she might have a point.
Wow.. that smile!!! sghaoghaohanbh
What does he hope to get out of meeting with the shrink? I guess we’ll see when he catches up with him, but it’s at least clear that Lee has seen it might help him in some way!
Phew! I think telling Lee he could benefit from seeing a shrink was hugely threatening to Lee.. but after having had the ‘you are not superman, but you are a pretty special man’ conversation – I think Lee was able to accept this.. even if he didn’t like it. He isn’t superman, he tries to be and he knows he isn’t.. and he knows Amanda doesn’t see him as a superman either! So not rejecting this idea of Amanda’s is a further sign IMHO of Lee’s growing Maturity.
Raffie I miss you!! If you are out there – I’d love to know if you think Lee is a grown up now!! 🙂
[hope you are well- I miss being in touch with you!]
So.. a few final thoughts about what we’ve learned in the cafe scene. This is the second time Lee said Dorothy was the first person he saw die that way – I think this is part of why Dorothy’s death has affected him so much.. it’s not all down to how close he was to her, it’s a combination of things. The trauma Lee experienced.. this was his first time… the betrayal which caused the death.. Lee’s pledge to find her killer – which to date he has not kept, all combined with the close bond with Dorothy mean Lee has never healed this traumatic experience. The nausea over roses tells us this. I have not done a lot of study on trauma..(if you have feel free to share your insights please!) but I do know it is deeply embedded in a person’s brain.. That Lee has finally told the story to someone, to Amanda is probably a big step in helping him to find healing.. I guess we’ll stay tuned to find out how that healing plays out over the rest of the episode..
Lee’s view of Paul as being god like plays into this too – It’s almost like Lee is thinking God (Paul) shouldn’t have let Dorothy die! When.. Paul is a man.. not a God.. and not a superman..
Lee seems to be struggling with this- is Paul really a devil?!
He is still double minded on this I think..
I don’t know if any of this resonates with any of you – but I am loving this aspect of the story – I’ve never really explored it before.. I was too caught up first time with Lee and Amanda! But exploring these wider stories IMHO makes Lee and Amanda’s journey even richer!!
It is clear at least to me, that Dorothy was special.. more than that? I have no idea!.. I don’t think the show gives us enough info on it.. Though I can’t know for sure, I suppose I tend to see Lee not falling for Eva (who IMHO I think Lee had also idealised!) the way he did if this tragedy with Dorothy was the death of a true love or something.. hmm.. but don’t know!
Hey I found some cute emoticons but I keep forgetting to use them.. doh!
Lastly, not wanting to ruin this wonderful moment.. I’ve left it till last to point this out.
Did you notice the crew’s lighting being reflected in Amanda’s back window?? I do think that’s why she leaves her windows down so much 😉
Thanks for stopping by and reading! I hope you are enjoying the character’s journeys as much as I am!! If you can – do let us know you stopped by.. always wonderful to hear from my fellow smk fans – and feel free to share any thoughts, opinions, insights you like (Just don’t jump ahead with the story please ) Okay, byeee for now!!
Re the nausea part of trauma:
I can’t speak on the clinical perspective, but as someone who had to learn more than I wanted to about anxiety in relation to trauma after getting diagnosed with anxiety disorder and panic attacks, I can confirm that yes, nausea is DEFINITELY a symptom that goes with trauma. So the rose reaction doesn’t surprise me at all.
I love this scene – heartbreaking and lovely. We get to see the vulnerable side of Lee – and their relationship evolving into deep friendship – maybe not a romance yet, but a relationship full of depth, trust, caring, and understanding. I think Amanda is the first person Lee can trust completely, and he is realizing that more and more everyday. Amanda has always been unconditionally supportive of Lee and he’s beginning to appreciate her more.
The fact that they ran out onto the tarmac without having ANY cover is ridiculous. What’s even more ridiculous is that the Russians were such bad shooters that they missed them! It took a plane shooting down at them to take out Dorothy. What kind of Wizardly plan was that???
I would have loved to see poppies in this scene rather than roses. That would have kept to the theme! (“Poppies! Poppies! Poppies will put them to sleep! Sleep!!!!”) Then Dorothy would have been lying there with all the poppies around her. Of course, roses are more romantic, so I can see why they went with them.
In the cafe scene and in the scene by Amanda’s car, I feel like the touches between them have somewhat different meanings. At the table, their hand-holding is intimate and caring – Amanda giving him support and care and Lee accepting it. He is bravely letting Amanda into his heart when he tells her about the horrible mission, and she is letting him know that she is there for him and she realizes how difficult this is for him. You can see that he is visibly relieved after he talks to her, and you can tell that she understands the enormity of this moment. By Amanda holding his hands while he talks, she is saying that he’s not having to go through the experience alone again.
At the car, these feelings are still present, but I think he takes both of her hands in his (faint!!!) to emphasize what he is saying. He wants to be sure she knows that she has helped him and he appreciates it. Holding someone’s hands like that certainly gets their attention! And, what’s more is that he doesn’t let go and retreat when she suggests he see a therapist. He knows she’s just suggesting it because she thinks it will help. It’s a beautiful moment between them.
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Iwsod, I’m looking forward to when you go back and do more S1 dialogue! I can feel the laughs coming on already! I wonder if Amanda is recalling that moment from MB when she asks Lee about his codename this time.
I have a question about the flashback scene. Since it is a flashback, sort of like a dream but not really, is it possible that Lee’s only remembering key things versus it replaying the way it really went down? The whole scene at the airport is so preposterous, that I’m wondering if this is supposed to be a bit dream-like, as in daydream? And Paul doesn’t seem so wizard-like in the flashback either – unless you count his powers of bullet spray diversion from those Russians. How on earth did they miss all 3? Maybe Paul’s wizard powers worked on the ground guns, but not the ones on the plane. Ugh.
What a sweet little moment there at the car when Lee takes Amanda’s hands. Amanda looks a little surprised at first, but recovers. I think she is appreciating Lee’s realization that it feels good to have a friend like Amanda, someone he can trust and open up to. You can see how much more relaxed he feels from the beginning.
I think he grabs her hands to tell her this because he is a toucher, the physical contact is his way of conveying that he cares. I get the sense that it is all in friendship though for both of them. If there were more between these two, then I would have expected a hug or something. But good golly, if those hands were on my hands like that, I think I’d have to remind myself to keep breathing 🙂
I’ll have to go back and read the OTL posts and comments before the episode order discussion. I don’t remember what was said and the blurring of lines. But I agree, iwsod, if they are blurred in OTL, then that is a piece of data in support of Wizard first. I think I may be the lone holdout in maintaining they’re both friends at this point, but then again, I’m not sure that I know when I think Lee knows he loves Amanda as more than a friend. I think it’s because I’m looking for that point in his conscious mind and not thinking about the subconscious.
I don’t think Amanda put her “foot in it” here. I think she was actually brave and was being a good friend. She is obviously very concerned for Lee, and because of her helping nature, she wants to help him and is offering up something to him. I think she knows he won’t like it, so to do it at a time like this, immediately after he finally opens up and shares, is very gutsy to me. I think she took a big chance with him on this. But she guessed right that Lee wouldn’t blow up at her, and instead he has matured enough to realize that Amanda’s suggestion of talking to the shrink comes out of caring for him and wanting to help him. So with that realization, he is able to accept her suggestion without getting mad at her.
It’s a bit ironic to me how Amanda points out that the shrink might be able to tell him something he’d never figure out for himself…isn’t that what Amanda’s been doing for Lee for the past 2+ years? She’s the one to make connections on the cases that Lee and the other agents don’t see! So I also think that line helps Lee to accept Amanda’s suggestion – she knows of what she speaketh!!
Love how you described the bit about the impact of Dorothy’s death on Lee. I agree! Great lighting blooper catch!!!
I like your idea of a dream view in this flashback, BJo. And especially that part thet you wrote about Amanda knowing what she is talking about when she suggests that the shrink might help him to see something he wouldn’t figure out on his own. If Lee could recognize all that Amanda has taught him and trust her suggestion because of this, well then WOW! Maybe he is going to start really thinking about all he has learned from Amanda. I am beginning to think the Scarecrow really is getting a brain!
And I want so badly to comment on the blurring lines in OTL looking less blurred here, but I will wait for that discussion to be able to happen in full. Just, someone remind me of this topic if it doesn’t come up. Thanks.
That’s just it, Morley. I do think Lee is already recognizing what Amanda has taught him because he is starting to believe in her skills and abilities and therefore is starting to trust her more. Her professional growth is what makes this possible. She’s made so much growth since the latter part of S2 and is continuing to grow at a fast pace in the early eps of S3. Things are changing rapidly for both of them in so many ways.
I like what you say about Scarecrow getting a brain – and I know it’s been said elsewhere, so I also give credit to everyone who has pointed it out – but perhaps in my view, where I’m looking for when Lee finally realizes he loves Amanda, that may also be when he finally “gets” a brain. LOL. Regardless, his neural network is forming at warp speed nowadays, if you ask me. It won’t be much longer until it is fully formed.
I agree about the flashback too. I said in reply to something that it had a dream like quality so I didn’t expect it to be really accurate 😉
Oh no idea if I’ll remember. LOL.. nah it probably will as it’s important to me and how I am starting to see things.. But hopefully we’ll have fun chatting about it anyway! 🙂
I am sure we will have a wonderful time, Iwsod, like pigs in mud 😉 Looking forward to it!
Oops! Missed that – sorry!
I want to add one more thing – maybe more for my sake than anything else. I said “I’m looking for that point in his conscious mind and not thinking about the subconscious.” I think for me what signals this is when Lee chooses to officially pursue her. I think I may equate him realizing he loves her as more than a friend with actually acting on it or even just thinking about acting on it because he knows he wants to. I’m still not sure when I think that point actually is, I’ll have to keep a eye out for it.
That all sounds good to me BJo, I understand you don’t go for the whole Lee’s in love now but is not able to recognise it or is unaware of it angle 😉 it’s rather psychodynamic 😉 which.. I think the writers were totally going for by the way.
If we ignore the unconscious then I’d agree with you – Lee isn’t pursuing Amanda in anyway yet in my eyes too..
When will that come? and how will it come?? I am trying very hard to keep an open mind… so I’m with you – I’m not sure!!
and Amanda??? not sure!!! eek!! I’ll look forward to figuring it out with you 🙂
Ignoring the subconscious (I think Lee use to be good at that, although he is losing the talent about now) I agree as well.
Ok, I had to look up psychodynamic. And now that I’ve looked it up I still don’t understand what it means. LOL – and I am edu-ma-cated! I think that’s why I tend to stay with what I can see and hear in the conscious realm. I find that there subconscious a bit tricky sometimes to figure out.
Oh, but that is what makes it so much fun…
Sorry BJo I thought it was widely known in the USA who historically has incorporated lots of Freudian ideas into their psych discourse. I’m sorry.
If you’ll remember we discussed this in DOA quite a bit.. as all of Amanda’s dreams were IMHO a window into her unconscious – where she was kissing Lee 😉 so if you are interested check it out..(Here is the post where it starts getting discussed- ie. once Amanda’s drugs kick in 😉 but you don’t have to read it if it doesn’t interest you (it doesn’t have to! 🙂 ) and I should be careful not to use psychobabble! Sorry again!
I find what’s in someone’s unconscious a little hard to figure out too – but I see the smk writers as giving us clues along the way – to how both Lee and Amanda are slowly changing inside.. and coming to see the changes in themselves too..
Sometimes we change and aren’t immediately aware of it. (and that’s the key word ‘aware’ ) our unconscious is just the part of us which we are not ‘aware’ of.
I hope that helps 🙂
LOL – you are too funny, iwsod 🙂
And please feel free to psychobabble away! I may just not read it. Or not understand if I try to read it. I do remember trying to read all those links to the psych stuff from DOA (an episode I do not care for) and not getting very far into it before my brain stopped working and my eyes glazed over. It’s not my cup of tea – sorry!!! But I appreciate the explanation you gave here. Thanks!
if you are the data nerd, I may be the psych theory nerd 🙂
Hey.. we compliment each other!
I’ll take it!
Ah BJo as always it’s wonderful to hear your thoughts on my post – thanks!
Lee is ‘a toucher’ so true!!!
yeah I’ll go back and revisit the OTL walk. I might actually watch the two episodes in both orders (you did that for Car Wars/Brunettes didn’t you?)
lol I forgot I had made the lighting blooper catch.. because no one mentioned it – It explains why Amanda leaves her windows down so much 😉
Yes, I did do that for CW and BAI. I plan to do it for OTL and Wizard too. I’m just waiting until you’ve walked us all the way through Wizard first before I do it. I won’t be able to comment with any confidence about the order of these two episodes without doing that little experiment…I’m such a data nerd….
I think I’ll do try both order too. I really want to do it right now, but I’ll try to hang on…Maybe us data people can provide some tables comparing them LOL? Even I can’t find a way to create a graph. But certainly a couple of hypotheses to test
That sounds like a great idea, learjet! I love tables and graphs, especially graphs. A picture really can say a 1,000 words. I’ve had the idea in the back of my head for a while on how to graph Lee and Amanda’s relationship throughout the series. All I really know is that I’d use color – from UV to IR – to show each of them heating up! I’m just not sure what I’d label the X and Y axes, much less the increments I’d use. Someday when I have more time!
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You can graph Lee and Amanda’s relationship? In color on an x and y axis??? I am lost. That is the math my 7th grade son just did??? You data nerds have left this relational nerd in the dust!!! LOL
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Oh haaaa I replied to learjet saying you would like this – and then I just saw this comment haaaaa!
I’d love to see what you two could come up with! Seriously, if you two want to get your heads together and publish something that would rock!
Would love to! But after I finish my 5 page paper that’s due Monday that I am trying to start tonight instead of playing on the blog!!!
Good for you! such discipline!!
Ummm… KISS. X-axis = time.
(OK – so KISS could be misinterpreted for their relationship. I meant Keep It Simple, Stupid. But actual kiss increments might be amusing to plot.)
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Cool! So fun to think you’ll be watching Wizard and OTL in both orders too!!
Whoooo you want to do up a table Learjet? I think that would give BJo a thrill 😉 tee heee..
I’m happy to test hypotheses – maybe we’ll eventually conclude that there is no way to ‘prove’ either point of view – there is only evidence to support it or not support it 🙂
The null hypothesis cannot be rejected LOL! I’m thinking a rose table is definitely needed…
Agreed! I just want to see what those hypotheses are Learjet..
how you gonna turn this discussion into a null?
I’m thinking the airing order should be the default – and maybe it was cheeky of me to not blog in that order.. but when re-ordering I’ve always thought if the airing order works – keep it. [I do like simplicity.. lol though it may seem I don’t 😉 ]
Ugh, now I am lost! Null hypothesis? I am joining BJo here, I looked this up and still don’t understand it. I think I will write all my responses in Greek text in protest… LOL. 😉
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The null is effectively the default proposition. You have to disprove it or not
I can’t prove or disprove anything. I think our reasoning about episode order is highly subjective due to our own personal experiences, expectations and hopes… How do you graph that? 😉
And what that proves (LOL) is that you would be a great qualitative researcher – looking for the richness and depth, not trying to generalise, realising that you bring your own perspective into how you view SMK…Us graph people “reduce” to generalise (which has its uses too)
I agree!! I spent a great deal of time in my first career doing qualitative and quantitative consumer research. Morley, you would be great at qualitatives. While the qualitative research was fun, the quantitative had teeth! Upper management always wants teeth! Oh boy, sorry iwsod, we are waaay off topic!! Back to paper writing….
Good call on Morley 🙂 She would be great at Qualitative!!
makes me wonder.. ahem what would you do with Iwsod?!
rofl. I just thought the same thing! haaaaa..
Oh dear.. we are off topic huh.. sorry!!!!
I’ll head over to neds!!!
Ohh! Ok (nods head vigorously) I can do that. Oh and BJo, I have teeth… some people in my life actually call me the “pit bull” LOL
I am going over to Ned’s….
A quantitative researcher can reduce anything to a hypothesis (which can be a huge weakness!!) The null is Wizard comes before OTL; the alternate is OTL comes first.
Yep I agree with your Null! 🙂
Speaking of the rose..
I was just updating my SOS screen caps – trying to get better quality pics.. and low and behold – I suddenly noticed what is on Lee’s lapel, and has been right in front of me the whole time but I never saw it!!! [with all those swoony looks and all that kissing I can’t think why 😉 ]
Whoa!!! I never connected that Lee here has a rose on his lapel – and that we later learn of his reaction to their smell..
Not that I think this moment necessarily solves the Rose situation..it may.. I don’t know.. but I thought I’d share it anyway to add all the data we have on the subject 🙂
I’ll share what I make of the rose at the end of wizard.. but.. hey.. I thought it was a good excuse to post a pic of ship of spies 🙂
if you could see the rose while they were kissing I would have posted that 😉 haaaaa!
Replying to myself.. lol.. just wanted to add.. he has it on for ages..
When facing possible death:
And here too.. Amanda even squashes it as she rests her head on his chest 😉
Okay.. I think that’s as many sos pics as I can get away with 😉
Maybe he doesn’t notice the rose smell because something else was having a greater effect on him. I mean look at those pictures! Something was happening in those moments. Especially the two pictures that have both Lee and Amanda in them. He looks like he is discovering something he had never seen before… just saying 😉
So true morally, Lee’s distracted big time!
Morley! I meant Morley! #%#!!# voice recognition!
That is one awesome screen cap, iwsod!! And that look of Amanda’s is veeery intense. I wish we could see Lee’s face here too. I know it would be filled with admiration and thanks for sure! But I am thinking that Lee is thinking that if it weren’t for these dad-burned baddies here I’d want to take you in my arms again and give you just one more sweet kiss! Well, okay, maybe two 😉
Seems like Lee was so nervous that he couldn’t actually pay attention to the rose. He’s really looking at Amanda, as in “I see you” (KC, good line!).
Oh that reminds me, tomorrow my future daughter-in-law’s coming over to try on my wedding dress. The top and sleeves of Amanda’s dress reminded me of mine, only it’s form fitted not princessy. For it’s time, very sophisticated. And of course being a lazy person I am, I never preserved it so while all the lace is still gorgeous, all the beads have turned yellow. Arrrgh!
Considering the fact that Amanda mentions that her bouquet is fake, isn’t it possible that Lee’s rose boutonniere is fake as well? I mean it seemed to hold up quite a long time for a real flower. If it’s fake then there’s no smell. It would also go along with the fake wedding.
LOL this could be a little personality test! 😉
Valerie and Morley and Jule have come up with theories to explain the rose which match the context – me? I figured the writers hadn’t even thought up the idea of Dorothy getting killed yet & the idea that Lee is nauseous about roses! lol!!! So when they did, they just didn’t think about how Lee had already worn a rose in season 2 in this very swoony moment! 🙂
now in Over the Limit? I don’t make that excuse – the scripts were being written at virtually the same time.. and it was all intermingled.. and Over The limit aired the very next episode. too close for me to brush it off as writers not paying attention to their characters.. I’ll get into it more in THAT upcoming post 🙂
I posted the pics to see what you guys would make of it 🙂 and drool over that moment again haaa 😉 though ahem.. it was totally relevant! 🙂
OH heck Iwsod, I am lifelong fantasy/scifi fan. I can figure ways bend reality to my fit my view ROFL! Wormholes included that connect to rabbit holes!
It’s a gift! 😉
I am bound and determined to create continuity even when the writers forgot about it. I have a lot of fun with that 😉
Well.. just to bug you Morley.. here’s another Roses and Lee spotting prior to Wizard 😉
(if I can get it to work 😉 )
Must I appreciate the gratuitous Lee shots, I mean research into roses and their prevalance pre-Wizard, I have to say the cynic in me sides with the shockingly bad continuity theory. But i’m going to try hard to believe one of: the single rose is different to a bunch/Lee’s distracted by Amanda’s beauty/the flowers were fake in SOS.
The rose comparative table is becoming considerably more complex than anticipated…
Uh oh. I am afraid that you have bugged me in a way that gets my poetic muse going… ready?
These roses tend to be the kind that look beautiful, but they really don’t have a smell. In contrast the ones that were a part of Dorothy’s killing would have had their essence brought out of them due to the crushing and smashing of their petals. (actually, I think the smoke and gun powder would have smelled more).
It got me thinking about a song that I like when I am struggling with painful moments (It is a worship song, so excuse the religious connotations)
“When the rock falls, falls upon you.
And you get ground to dust
no music for your pain.
You open the windows, the windows of heaven.
And then You opened me
and You crushed me like a rose” -Kevin Prosch
Anyway, it makes me think of those times when we receive a crushing blow, but that is when the essence of who we are and the grace and beauty of real love can come out. The thing here, for Lee, is that he kind of stopped the process. He closed up and didn’t push through to where the beauty lies. I do believe that there is a redemptive healing to pain and we find it when we can open ourselves up, feel the pain, learn from it and allow ourselves to heal ( I know that is nauseatingly simplified, sorry). His inability to experience the smell of rose petals is symbolic of that. It adds some beautiful poignancy to the tag. But it doesn’t affect the way I view the presence of roses in earlier episodes, because the fragrance of those roses would not be present. They are beautiful, but not crushed. It is the simple roses that smell sweetly, not the fancy ones ( ah there is a metaphor in that one too 😉 )
Thank goodness someone is 🙂
I finished writing the posts for Wizard yesterday! whoo hooo!!! (there are 13 ) so I can watch them now.. but I still haven’t put the pictures in the posts yet..
I love that you are a data nerd! 🙂 You are your different wonderful self – and we’d be missing out if we didn’t have you, the data nerd (LOL), along for the ride and sharing your thinking!!! 🙂 tee hee
Aw, shucks. And I am proud to be a data nerd. Someone’s got to be! Fat-bottom girls, you make the rockin’ world go round!
That’s my way of saying that there is room for all of us at the table, surface thinkers, deep thinkers, data nerds, and anyone else. We’re all welcome down in that rabbit hole with the wine, chocolate and fuzzy bunny slippers where jule is the resident in charge! Oh, and Lee. He’s there too, right? Right???
“down in that rabbit hole with the wine, chocolate and fuzzy bunny slippers where jule is the resident in charge”
Is that resident as in residing there, or resident as in practicing (psychiatric) medicine there? 😀 Sorry… just makes me think “the lunatics are running the asylum”… (Yes, I proudly count myself among the lunatics.)
OMG, I just read this whole thread and have decided, as the resident in charge of the rabbit hole, that you guys have slipped past it into the quantum void of a black hole. I really must put out more wine (lots of it!) and chocolate immediately to lure you all back! It’s time to get back to wallowing like pigs in the mud (only mud equals chocolate in the bunny hole!) and focus people, focus on the swoonworthyness of Lee and Amanda’s love story!
(Also, didn’t understand a bit of the statistical discussion and have considered resorting to serious drinking to see if would help me. 🙂 )
I’m with you Jule. I don’t understand a word of it. I failed high school and couldn’t go to University. I’d like to think I am a high functioning under-achiever. 🙂
Still, as Blackadder observed, my education has been the University of Life, the School of Hard Knocks and the Kindergarten of having the &?%# kicked out of me. 😉
And KC, of course the lunatics are running the asylum! Was there ever any doubt?!?!? hee hee! grabs her helmet and runs off giggling maniacally
Like KC and kiwismh said in their comments, I really don’t think Amanda put her foot in it with her suggestion that Lee talk to somebody. I think I mentioned that before, huh? I do think she was concerned about him, very concerned. She seems alarmed outside of the bus in that earlier scene. During their chat at the cafe, I do think she is touched by Lee’s admission that i is important to him that she cares, but she doesn’t take that any further except as an open door to learn more about Scarecrow, but she is also learning more about this case and how Lee sees it. The right thing to do is to suggest that he go to the Agency shrink. He needs a professional to help him through this, if he doesn’t it will never really be dealt with. Sometimes the loving thing to say is the hard thing. So she is speaking out of her care for him, the very thing he said was important.She is really loving him here (not necessarily romantic love) and she is taking a risk as well. And Lee responds so wonderfully. Ok his initial reaction is to be offended or even to be tempted to close back up, but he doesn’t. I think he recognizes that this is Amanda caring and even if it ruffles his feathers a bit, he can trust her. That is a remarkable thing actually. How many people never actually get to this place in their interpersonal relationships. We allow others in, to a point. But when someone tries to say the hard thing we find every reason why they are wrong so that we don’t need to consider that difficult thing they are trying to help us grow beyond. It takes great courage and trust in that person’s love for us to embrace what they are saying. I kind of see that here, between the two of them.
But I also think Lee has an ulterior motive for being ok about talking to the shrink, doesn’t he? We will see I guess.
I guess the one thing that I take away from this part of that scene is that these two are also growing in their honesty with one another. They are going to tell it like it is and they are going to listen to one another without throwing defenses up. They aren’t going to gloss over things with one another. That is a very good friendship and that is a solid foundation for building a lasting love.
Morley and Kiwi – you write my thoughts so much more beautifully and eloquently than I ever could!
I write “What I did on my summer holiday” with a large crayon… you turn yours into a timeless, exquisite poem/masterpiece written with a fountain/calligraphy pen and beautiful penmanship. Sigh…
Or maybe I write with a stick in the dirt – a la the “cow plan” (Top Secret). Nah–I’m not that clever, but it gives me something to aspire to. 😉
Well KC, if you are a Crayola and stick writer, then I am in trouble. I just gesture and nod (with a bit of drool) and hope that y’all can read my thoughts. You ladies just blow me away with your eloquence. Okay, back to pointing 😉
Yeah.. I use pictures… tee hee.. lots of pictures!
But then.. with Lee Stetson to drool over that isn’t such a bad thing.. is it? 😉
I never said I don’t drool… 😀
Try not to feel too bad, KC…I’m right there with ya! 🙂
KC I love when you share your comments.. they are yours and no one else’s.. keep em coming! 🙂
Everyone here is different – and that’s what makes sharing the walk together so great!
Can I publish post 9 now?! The last post was really an extension of the previous post in a way..
Go for it Iwsod! I have a whole day of corrections to do, and would welcome your humour and insights to brighten the boredom!
I published it just for you learjet 🙂
I’m heading out for a while now.. bye!! later!!
Thanks. You’re a lifesaver!
I have to agree with this. I never feel very eloquent when I write and so often I don’t even know how to respond to a scene and then I read Iwsod’s awesome commentary and everyone’s great comments and it gets my brain working. So I do believe this awesome blog and all we dig out of these episodes is a collaborative effort. Thanks everyone!
Thank you Morley – very kind of you to say 🙂
I too find that hearing everyone’s thoughts and different points of views helps me to understand more fully and enjoy more fully!! ‘Collaboration’ is a brilliant way of describing it! thanks Morley!
KC, your thoughts are every bit as valuable as my late night ramblings. But thank you for the high praise. 🙂
I see Amanda here loving Lee as her friend but still keeping her deeper emotions for him in check. As he reaches for her hands thought and tells her that he’s glad he’s talked to her, that it has helped him, I think she feels that inner pull towards him again. It shows on her face for a few moments before her over-riding concern for his emotional well-being kicks in again as she realises that his fixation with Dorothy and the phantom-Dorothy he has been “seeing” lately hasn’t really been laid to rest by their talk.
It made me wonder whether it had occurred to Amanda earlier (say after the bus incident) that Lee maybe needed professional help to deal with the spectre of Dorothy that has been raised by the events of this episode, or whether it was something that has just occurred to her as Lee says, “I’m getting a clearer picture in my head”. Before he said this it seemed to me that the conversation would not have ended with her making this suggestion.
I think it is something that probably occurred to her earlier but perhaps she was uncertain how he would react given how on edge he has been. I think she is in no doubt now about how much he values her as a friend and confidant, so perhaps that gave Amanda the confidence to make the suggestion now, and his statement about getting a clearer picture in his head was the perfect opening for her to raise it.
Lee’s immediate reaction seems to be one of hurt, like he thought he was really connecting with Amanda but that she is maybe not returning that “connection”. But as Amanda gently sets out the reasons why impartial, professional counselling might be a good idea, he can see that her suggestion is borne out of her deep friendship and heartfelt concern for him. Again he calms, and he seems to look at her at the end of this scene with even greater admiration. Whether he realises it or not, he falls just a little bit more in love with her at this moment I think.
I’m gonna be a rebel here… I actually don’t think Amanda put her foot in it by suggesting Lee talk to someone else. I think she was deliberately letting him know that she recognised the growth he’d made. She appreciated what it took for him to open up and wanted to let him know that she knew, but that she was also recognising her own limitations and wanting him to seek someone who could help him more. I don’t think she would have suggested it before now – she would have known he’d run a mile. This was another “I see you” moment… I see the growth you’ve made and I want you to see that I see. (Does that make sense?)
lol maybe you want to be a rebel – I don’t want to disappoint you but – I can agree with everything your saying here! 🙂
I don’t think Amanda made a mistake by suggesting Lee talk to a professional (LOL or I’d be out of a job maybe). I agree, Amanda has her limitations – well said!
I thought the words that came out of her mouth at first to suggest it? were a bad idea – maybe Dorothy IS in your head..the suggestion itself was a good idea.
I’d say Amanda realises it hasn’t been received in the way she meant the suggestion to be received and expands on what she meant healing the small rupture very quickly. To me it wasn’t a biggie.. BUT, I appreciated seeing that Amanda does not 100% of the time say 100% of things perfectly – and Lee, even when he was vulnerable was quick to trust what she really meant by it – Amanda is not a superwoman either.. just a poor choice of words to start her suggestion with .. but this is just my opinion -such that it is..
I loved your comment about the ‘I see you’ moment KC, beautifully put – yes Amanda is actually acknowledging and encouraging Lee in his growth here.. makes sense to me!
Great to hear from you KC!
Yes, me too! I like the “I see you” moment idea!
Thanks everyone for the nice thoughts regarding my issues with the fire. I had an awesome amount of support, especially from my school family and had many friends who helped me through everything.
Now, back to our favorite show…Iwsod, I checked on the original Phantom novel and the only thing it seems to mention is a ring that the Phantom gives to Christine after he has her in the labyrinth. Sometimes I think I confuse the musical with the movie. I know the roses figure more prominently in the movie and it’s been a while since I saw the musical. But I do know what you mean about that hockey mask and the roses. I did read something about the symbolism of using the rose in the Phantom. The roses sometimes had a black ribbon around it and it all meant something about love, loss of innocence, and death. It’s amazing what small gems can be found in SMK amidst the plot holes and continuity issues. Also, yes I saw your comment from the last post about my Andrew Lloyd Webber mention.
Maybe Serdeych was already at the plane off to the side, waiting to see exactly what was going to go down. I find it hard to believe that he would have survived that explosion.
Of course, trying to stay where we are I only watched this scene again. I think KJ wasn’t thinking that BB was going to take both of her hands. There is sort of smile there as she went to put her hand on her hip while he was trying to take it, but they kept going with the scene. Also love how that hand goes right to the small of her back. I mentioned anchor before, it’s like he needed to do that to become centered again, especially after telling her all that he did.
When I very first watched this I wondered what Amanda was thinking by telling him to talk to someone. I was in agreement there with Lee about him already talking to her. But again, I had a friend who lived long distance tell me pretty much the exact same thing when I called to talk about something bothering me. Her concern was that I have someone who was right there instead of miles away. At least Amanda is able to explain to Lee what she means and truly receives it well.
I like how he admits that he is glad he told her. When he said he needed to talk he really did. And he didn’t hold back he told her what was what and how he’s been feeling about everything. And Amanda made it all right for him to do so. That way in the future should he need to do so again, he knows that he can.
I was thinking Lee’s remark that Paul “never quite pulled out of it” is supposed to mean he never fully recovered from the tragedy of Dorothy’s death (and Tin Man’s presumptive death). He also lost his team: Tin Man and Dorothy, and we can probably think that Lee moved on about that time. It fits in with the statement that Paul isn’t the wizard he once was.
It’s true that the whole Tin Man thing is sort of passed over lightly, but I think it is very pivotal in understanding both Lee and Paul’s reaction to this event. I think Lee believes that he killed Tin Man with the grenade. Lee says Tin Man “was with them when we brought the hammer down”. I’m not sure what forensics were like in the 80’s, no, the 70’s, but I think the SMK assumption here is if you are blown to bits there isn’t a chance for positive identification. I also don’t know why, when the word “betrayal” starts getting bandied around, nobody bothered to look closer at whether the missing member of the Oz network was actually dead. I’m sure this couldn’t be a plot hole – could it? (sarcasm).
Anyway, this would be a huge burden to live with. Lee might feel guilty about living when Dorothy died, or about not protecting her better – we all know that would bother him – but he would certainly have a big load of guilt about actually pulling the trigger, so to speak, on a fellow agent. He could very well be angry at Paul for putting him in this situation, as well as sending Dorothy and Tin Man to their deaths. And Paul, who in fact did send at least Dorothy to her death, has to bear that burden in his own life.
Although Lee is revisiting a painful time in his life, something he never quite got over, at least he’s been removed from it for a long time. Tragedy and trauma can have deep and far-reaching results, but human nature is remarkable in its ability to disassociate itself with something that doesn’t affect day-to-day life in a meaningful way. Paul, on the other hand, has never got away. His life’s work has been tracking down Serdeych. He has had to live with this tragedy every day, and that day at the airport has doubtless stayed alive in a way it hasn’t for Lee. While Lee has put some fairly tangible distance between himself and that day (different work, change of scenery, change of associates) Paul has only been able to distance himself in an emotional way. That may explain his apparent coldness and matter-of-factness – it has been a matter of survival.
Haha, I did think that this highly trained team was displaying a fair amount of tactical ignorance – no cover and no concealment, and what complicated maneuver, exactly, were they trying to do? And in this flashback, Lee’s reaction to Dorothy’s death isn’t exactly holding her in his arms trying to breathe the life back into her. BTW, I love the pic of the rose boxes blowing sky high – one is even in midair.
I also thought Amanda put her foot into it, suggesting Lee see a shrink. I felt sad for him here – the guy finally opens up, and his best friend lets him know she thinks he’s loosing it. I know it was probably necessary, and I’m sure I would have done the same thing. That’s a best friend’s job.
Oh, Valarie – glad you made it out of the fire. That would be a nightmare come true. Guess you’re in a position to tell us a thing or two about trauma, right?
Love your comments Happy Camper!!! 🙂
Oh cool. so glad you gave an explanation for Lee’s remarks.. I found them a little cryptic and wasn’t sure what to make of them! That makes sense..
Tactical ignorance? I love it!! lol maybe this was deliberate, to lead us into thinking Paul betrayed his team? or.. hmm.. maybe it’s just dumb haaaa
Yeah.. that’s a plausible explanation for why tinman was assumed dead! I can go with that!! 🙂
A ‘plot hole’ whahahahahaha!!!! that is a genius pun right there Happy Camper!!!! 🙂
Yeah Paul mentioned in his grilling by Pfaff and Billy that the responsibility for agents under his command weighed heavily on him. I’m starting to really feel for Paul!! Spot on – Paul is in Survival Mode!!!
Yeah I wondered about that discrepancy too HappyCamper (Lee having to be pulled off her) – this goes for the lack of blood too- but I forgot to say that I figured this was down to it being a flashback/memory – it had a bit of a dream like quality to it.. so I could forgive the lack of accuracy 😉 maybe Lee grabbed her and tried to breath life into her after he had grabbed her hand and looked at her for a minute? haaa! I don’t know!!
Oh cool thanks Happy Camper – I really enjoyed this explosion too – which lol sounds a bit strange! I was tempted to put in another pic of flaming debris in the air but resisted because I thought I might seem nuts haaaaa
I like it that Amanda is drinking a grown up drink for a change – a sign that she is now living a much fuller, interesting, edgier life than the suburban funk she had fallen into at the start of the series. (I’m using “funk” here to describe a kind of everyday low feeling that’s there even when you’re not really aware of it. Before she met Lee, I think Amanda deep inside was wanting more out of life but had resigned herself to getting the most of out what she had. Particularly throwing all her energies into making sure her boys had a good, stable upbringing regardless of whatever inner emptiness, financial struggles, and so on, she might have been facing).
Anyway, that’s a long winded explanation for rejoicing in seeing Amanda enjoying a glass of wine with Lee (presumably they had already enjoyed another lunch post-OTL together). 😉
Maybe Lee was given the name Scarecrow by Paul because he was a bit brainless – too impulsive, idealistic, a bit green. I’m remembering Emily teaching Lee to be more thoughtful instead of just charging in with a gun… can’t quite remember the episode but I know someone will. And also, what was Harry’s part in bringing Lee into the Agency from the Oz network, or was he already in the Agency and seconded to the Oz network. It’s all a bit confusing – I may need to go back and watch Weasel again. Surely seeing Dorothy die can’t have been the first time he had witnesses a death? Or maybe it was just the “messy” way she died.
This airport scene is the least favourite part of this episode for me – I wish they had made it more realistic. Yeah, that’s an outstanding tactic, we’ll just run into the middle of the runway where we have no cover whatsoever, and start shooting. Fortunately the hockey masks must’ve been hard to see through because those Russians are lousy shooters – bet they’d get the all-time lowball score in Leathernecks shooting simulator! Just one more thought about the hockey masks – didn’t anyone else use that airport? Guys walking around in hockey masks a daily occurrence there is it? Good grief! 😯
Actually this whole scene works better in the still shots. I always thought they could at least have put a little bit of blood on Dorothy – heck, she’s just been machine gunned! She should be a total mess! But, of course, nobody really wants to see a shot up body (we get to see enough of that on the news these days). Anyway, in the still shots I can see now that they have used the red roses to represent the blood and death, which is kind’ve deep and meaningful, and a way of getting the scene on screen without offending the censors.
Got to get to work now but will be back for more later! 😀
Kiwismh, I agree with you on the reason for the codename. I’ve always said that early Lee didn’t take time to think before rushing in – thus he “didn’t have a brain” like the Scarecrow of Oz. In addition, the Scarecrow really did have a brain, just didn’t use it properly. (The Wizard didn’t give him a brain, just rewarded him for using it – the diploma.) Lee had to learn to use his “Agency brain” in a proper manner. He’s done this with the help of all his mentors and trainers – to some he drew closer, with others he simply appreciated what they taught.
Moving on – If OTL came first, I think Lee was responding to Amanda’s flirtation and focusing more on her than the flower – so it wouldn’t matter if it was a rose or a daisy at that moment. He could easily have disposed of it on their way to Transoceanic.
I will be back to comment more later, but I did want to say something about the roses, the smell and some of the trauma Lee is dealing with. I woke up once in the middle of the night to discover that my house was on fire. I ended up with a few burns and pretty much lost everything. For quite some time there was a specific fire smell that would sort of set me off. It wasn’t a campfire or a fire in a fireplace. It was very specifically a building or other house fire smell. I could be heading home and sense that smell and then see smoke and would assume that it was my house and be very anxious about what I would find when I got home. It took a long time to get over that and on occasion if I do sense that smell I do have a little flashback to it. Along with that there are parts of what happened that night that I cannot for the life of me remember or recall. It’s like it’s totally gone.
Maybe Lee’s aversion to the smell of roses is not to one little rose, but a bunch of them. A dozen roses or a bouquet of them will have a stronger, more powerful smell. Also, he may not be connecting all the dots about Tin Man and Serdeych and Paul and the Wizard because he is still so focused on Dorothy and her death. There may be gaps in what he remembers as well.
Wow Valerie! Thank you for sharing your experience. I can only imagine the stress that you must feel at times like that.
Trauma gets stuck in our brains and in our bodies as well. It can cause involuntary responses and it can freeze our development so that a part of us is stuck in that moment.
I don’t really have time to focus on my comment right now (my 4 year old is being eaten up with anticipation over his cousins impending arrival and none of us will experience any peace until he comes 😉 ) But I wanted to quickly comment on two things.
1) an Oz comment. The Scarecrow was the Oz character that was closest to Dorothy. She said something to that effect to him when she was making her final goodbyes. That maybe giving the writers too much credit, but I thought it was interesting.
2) I don’t find the rose in OTL an issue. Amanda didn’t know of Lee’s aversion and I don’t see Lee reaching for that rose very readily. He has a questioning look on his face and although some of it maybe about Amanda’s flirt with him there, I wonder if some of it has to do with wondering if he would let Amanda know about his dislike of roses. How many women would ever have given flowers to him. That is usually the man’s role, unless you are in a more committed relationship. I could imagine Lee feeling as if a woman was getting too attached if she was giving him flowers. So he would be the one to pick the type of flowers that were a gift. So obviously him telling her the story now doesn’t affect my view of order.
On other thought. I don’t see Amanda as reading anything into this little bit with Lee and the hand holding, or at least she doesn’t in the moment. I think she is VERY worried about her friend. I think that is what motivates her to suggest he see a shrink. This moment is all about Amanda helping her friend who she knows is on the brink of something. What she doesn’t know is that he is on the brink of a few things 😉
Peaceful moment over, got to go!
Morley, about your Oz comment and the closeness of Dorothy and the Scarecrow…As Dorothy is about to leave she specifically tells the Scarecrow that she will miss him most of all. In the book you can also see a special closeness between Dorothy and the Scarecrow. As I read the book I tried to take some notes regarding how some of this may be connected to this SMK episode. It seems that the writers went back and forth between the movie and the book in some ways. But again I’ll wait until the end to sort of summarize all of that.
Wow, Valerie, you were lucky to wake up. Fire is very fast moving, and smoke is deadly. A few weeks ago I put some kindling and paper in my wood-burner to start my fire. I went away for just two minutes to do something else. I came back to find the cat’s pillow and bedding well on fire as one of the pieces of paper on fire had floated out of the fire and onto her bed! I couldn’t get it out to begin with and finally had to throw a towel on the lot and smother it. Made a mark on my floorboards too!
In amongst the chaos (and by now the smoke alarm is going too) Puddle the cat comes into the room and looks at me as if to say, “What the hell happened to my freakin’ bed! You’d better fix that!” Not in the slightest bit grateful I had saved the house from being burned down. That’s cats for ya. 😉
What a traumatic experience Valerie! It must have been difficult to literally pick up the pieces and rebuild your life. They say that what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger- you should have superpowers now, right?! Glad you are okay!
Thanks, jule! Although my students do think I have super powers. Some of them think I am a ninja as well.
Hi Valerie, thanks so much for sharing your story with us. I do hope that those flashbacks and emotions are lessening with time. It sounds like it was a very scary experience. I’m so glad that you got out of there!!!
So given your own experience with trauma, you believe Lee was able to smell one rose and not feel sick?
Good call Valerie – I think you are spot on – Lee is not connecting the dots because of his traumatic experiences with Dorothy and her death. I think that is at the heart of what is going on with Lee here.
I have another take on the rose/smell and trauma.. but in the interests of not sounding like I have double standards- I will register my different view and hold off sharing it more fully in the end! 🙂
In the meantime, we can still discuss the content of this scene – for me, this scene fully expands on just how traumatic Dorothy’s death has been for him – and continues to be. His nausea at smelling rose is very powerful.. and I think says a lot. It’s at the heart of what this episode seems to be all about! 🙂
Based on what I experienced that’s the best way I can relate to what Lee might be saying about the roses. He refers to the smell of them as opposed to one of them. They had just blown up boxes of them and then there was Dorothy’s body covered in them. i would say that the smell became mixed in with or a part of the event and therefore smelling them triggers that traumatic situation.
Shortly after my fire, I took my students on our yearly weeklong Outdoor Education trip (camping). I was concerned as to how I would react to the campfires which we were to have every night. At first I stayed in the cabin, but eventually ventured forth as I needed to help supervise the students. I was surprised that I was not bothered by it and it was then I discovered that it was only that house fire smell that really bothered me.
Ten years is a long time to have this issue, but we know how Lee has handled these emotional issues. He’s now dealing with Wizard issues, Dorothy issues, Tin Man issues, being the Scarecrow issues. Maybe the roses in this episode are like the poppies in Wizard of Oz. He must feel as if he really has been tornadoed off to Oz?
Valerie, you are brave to have gone on the camping trip without knowing what your reaction would be. Thanks for taking on that challenge and, I’m sure, inspiring others I’m sure.
Valerie – glad you came out of it okay! Comforting SMK hugs.
Oh wow, Valerie. I’m just now reading all these comments. Thank goodness you were able to escape! My dad is a retired firefighter and I’ve heard many stories about people who were not as fortunate as you. And I know what you mean about the smells. There are so many different materials used to build houses and even all the things in houses can give off a unique odor as they burn that would not be present in a campfire. I’m so glad the camping trip was a success. You were very brave to go!