1/13 Season Three, Episode 02: We’re Off to See the Wizard- Scarecrow and Mrs King (Morley’s order: Episode 04)

This episode opens with a night establishing shot of Trafalgar Square in London.. LOL! It’s so obvious the shot is ancient! 3.02 WE'RE OFF TO SEE THE WIZARD.avi_000078111
you can just make out the period cars.. and I’m sure some of those companies were no longer around in the 80s.. but.. whatev!
Soooo Lee and Amanda are in London again?

LOL.. this establishing shot of the hotel street looks old too! Anyone recognise the building?
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Nahh..not Lee and Amanda 😦 It’s two people we’ve never met before.. yawn!
****Huge thank you to Kiwismh for transcribing the dialogue for this whole episode! you legend you Kiwismh!!! *****
Pamela: Now we both have an early plane to catch.
They get up off the couch and the woman begins to guide the guy to the door..
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the guy reaches out and kisses her.. Though she draws back and keeps it brief.
(Lol check out the horses on the wall! whahaha!! Ancient hand paintings? Winking smile )
Paul: Am I boring you? [Well.. actually.. yes you are! Oh.. you weren’t talking to me?!]
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Pamela: Ha!!….
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…You’re not going to outwit the mighty Serdeych by talking about him all night…
3.02 WE'RE OFF TO SEE THE WIZARD.avi_000096863(they walk to the door)
… Sleep might help you think.
Paul: Pamela, I’m this close…
[lol love the double meaning here.. he’s very close to her too!]
… Another month I’ll have him.
3.02 WE'RE OFF TO SEE THE WIZARD.avi_000111311[I don’t think this guy understands what a woman wants to hear if you are trying to woo her into spending the night! Winking smile ]
This guy seems really into this girl.. and at times quite tender.. but I confess- this actor was a completely sleazy creep in an episode of Columbo and now I can’t stand to look at him! (yeah he gets murdered Smile )
Pamela: Of course you will…
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Sheesh.. I’m in suspense here! Will the booooooobies pop out or not?!! [the speeeelling is adjusted so it doesn’t show up in internet searches – ugh!! we don’t want those searchers turning up here and spoiling the smk fun!]
Aie!!! I am soooooo  glad they didn’t have Lee getting this sort of action!
…that’s why they call you The Wizard of Oz. 3.02 WE'RE OFF TO SEE THE WIZARD.avi_000117150
Where’s a Wizard Whopper when you need one?
I don’t think the ‘tell all the exposition while a guy tries to sleep with a girl’ technique is working!

A prominent display of boooooobies, attempted seduction?? what kind of an intro to a SMK episode is this?? Something tells me we ain’t in Kansas anymore!!! Winking smile

Pamela turns and opens the door for Paul to leave, giving him a smile..
Paul: You, er, don’t want me to stay.
3.02 WE'RE OFF TO SEE THE WIZARD.avi_000129896[I can understand his confusion, her words are saying go.. but her boooooobies are sayin… well.. I’ll leave it to you to guess!!! ]
Come on Paul, leave already! Gosh… I’m starting this fab ep so grumpy!
Pamela quietly whispers: no
and shakes her head. Go already!!!!
3.02 WE'RE OFF TO SEE THE WIZARD.avi_000134901Paul kisses her hand romantically and leaves without another word.
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Pamela closes the door and looks to the heavens.. guess it’s a ‘phew!!!!’
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Hmmmm..maybe it’s: Phew!!!  I managed to stay in this dress without my booooobies popping out’? Winking smile3.02 WE'RE OFF TO SEE THE WIZARD.avi_000147447
I don’t find this dress flattering at all..
I bet she got it from Dynasty seconds warehouse.. Winking smile  It’s even less flattering as she walks
into her room.. but I’ll spare you more pictures!
Next, we see a hand with a manicure set start working on a door handle..
Pamela hears the door –
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and assumes it’s ‘Mr can’t take no for an answer’ Paul..(Because she is so irresistible ugh)
Pamela  heads towards the door.. smirks.. and opens the door saying
: Paul, I told you…
3.02 WE'RE OFF TO SEE THE WIZARD.avi_0001715043.02 WE'RE OFF TO SEE THE WIZARD.avi_000172305
…Argh!!

3.02 WE'RE OFF TO SEE THE WIZARD.avi_000172706She opens the door and she’s shot dead! Argh!!!!
Man.. couldn’t she hear the scary music warning her there was a bad guy behind the door? sheesh!! Winking smile

In a flash, we are back in DC, and Lee is standing in front of a picture of Pamela on the screen in Billy’s office.
an interesting editing choice as it goes from this to this:
3.02 WE'RE OFF TO SEE THE WIZARD.avi_0001729723.02 WE'RE OFF TO SEE THE WIZARD.avi_000173373
Billy: Pamela Densmore – the sixth agent to be murdered this year.
3.02 WE'RE OFF TO SEE THE WIZARD.avi_000177877Lee: She was a good friend, we were supposed to have dinner tonight.
3.02 WE'RE OFF TO SEE THE WIZARD.avi_000183950[Ohhhh my gosh!!! I had totally forgotten this line! Umm.. what do you make of this everyone?! ‘a good friend’ umm.. Is this like how Amanda is a good friend? eek!! Was Lee going on a date with boooobies Pamela?! I’ll come back to this one!]
Francine: All of them professional hits, same MO.
Lee: Why these women, hmm?…
3.02 WE'RE OFF TO SEE THE WIZARD.avi_000186953
…They worked all over the world. What’s the connection?

[so the six agents murdered prior were women? Hmm…I know I’m so negative so far.. but I loath these ‘lots of women get murdered because their pawns in some game between men’ concept- ugh!!!!!]
Seems a bit silly to mention this when things are so serious and awful but.. what do you make of Lee’s tie everyone?
I really don’t like this one! Not sure why.. Like the pale grey suit though!
Billy: Well, there does seem to be one thing that links them all together….
3.02 WE'RE OFF TO SEE THE WIZARD.avi_000191958
3.02 WE'RE OFF TO SEE THE WIZARD.avi_000192959
…You.

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Lee: Me?…
3.02 WE'RE OFF TO SEE THE WIZARD.avi_000194961
3.02 WE'RE OFF TO SEE THE WIZARD.avi_000195962[Billy and Francine don’t reply.. they just let it sink in for Lee here.. 3.02 WE'RE OFF TO SEE THE WIZARD.avi_000197964even Francine can see this is pretty darn awful!]
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…Yeah, I…I knew them,…
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…I worked with them…
3.02 WE'RE OFF TO SEE THE WIZARD.avi_0002010673.02 WE'RE OFF TO SEE THE WIZARD.avi_000202402
3.02 WE'RE OFF TO SEE THE WIZARD.avi_000202669…sure I dated them but-
[oh boy.. seems to me Lee is admitting to dating all of them- which would be including Pamela.. so the dinner that night was a date or.. they had dated in the past.. Hmm!!]
3.02 WE'RE OFF TO SEE THE WIZARD.avi_000205972Francine: Lee, there’s more. Interpol is investigating a couple of similar murders right now in Europe. Women, young, professional.
[whoa.. so there’s more than seven ‘agents’ who have been murdered already? and all these agents are women?? ugh. I reeally don’t enjoy this plot!]
Francine changes the pictures to show Lee some more of the women who have been murdered and are yet to be identified.. ugh.. enough!
12
This is soo heavy!
So now there’s been 9 women murdered? already?! Get the lowest of the low Dirtbag who did this!!!!
Poor Lee.. his face here as he sees the pictures says it all.. I think his head is starting to swim..
3.02 WE'RE OFF TO SEE THE WIZARD.avi_000213613Lee: A3.02 WE'RE OFF TO SEE THE WIZARD.avi_000214414nne Marie Johnson…

… and Stacy Smith!
3.02 WE'RE OFF TO SEE THE WIZARD.avi_000216016Lee shakes his head and sits down.. I am guessing his legs wouldn’t hold him up any longer Sad smile
….Oh my God.
Amanda knocks on Billy’s door.. everyone’s in shock.. So Billy just kind of mindlessly waves his arm for her to come in.
3.02 WE'RE OFF TO SEE THE WIZARD.avi_000219886Ohhh dear.. Poor Amanda! her timing is terrible- she is in a great mood!
3.02 WE'RE OFF TO SEE THE WIZARD.avi_000221888Amanda: Hello Everybody. Hello Sir, good morning.


(noooo it isn’t)

3.02 WE'RE OFF TO SEE THE WIZARD.avi_0002229893.02 WE'RE OFF TO SEE THE WIZARD.avi_000223990
Billy gives her a sad quiet smile.. not his usual big smile for Amanda. Amanda looks around and senses things are not okay
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Amanda says flatly: You’re busy.
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Billy simply responds: The meeting’s in the conference room. Francine…
Billy indicates with a head toss for Francine to go take care of Amanda. Poor Lee.. he hasn’t even turned around to say hello to Amanda.. too shell-shocked by all the women?
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I wonder if he’s feeling guilty that they are all connected to him- so he reacts by not facing Amanda.. is this a little shame creeping in here for Lee? no idea.. just throwing it out there..

Amanda can sense something is wrong and doesn’t seem to make anything of Lee very unusually not looking at her.
Amanda: Oh, I’m sorry, excuse me. I didn’t mean to interrupt. Thank you, Francine.
3.02 WE'RE OFF TO SEE THE WIZARD.avi_000231998Lee: Billy, there’s got to some other connection. 3.02 WE'RE OFF TO SEE THE WIZARD.avi_000235935
3.02 WE'RE OFF TO SEE THE WIZARD.avi_000237404[Hmm yeah.. there goes Lee and his denial again! he relies on that one a lot! though.. this is really awful.. I can understand why he’d want to deny it]
3.02 WE'RE OFF TO SEE THE WIZARD.avi_000241007Billy: Four out of six of the agents had worked for the OZ network. The others??… (Billy Shrugs)
[oz network.. lol I immediately think it’s an Australian tv channel Winking smile ]
3.02 WE'RE OFF TO SEE THE WIZARD.avi_000243009Lee: Oz? Has anyone talked to Paul Barnes?
[Lee perks up at hearing 3.02 WE'RE OFF TO SEE THE WIZARD.avi_000258024this, maybe trying to pin all these women’s deaths on Paul? has Paul been dating these same women? Still.. that’s 5 women who aren’t in the oz network who were murdered??]
Billy: He’s flying in from London today 3.02 WE'RE OFF TO SEE THE WIZARD.avi_000250016supposedly for his annual review. There’s talk of trouble. They say he’s tired – burned out. They may even take Oz away from him.

[whooo another burn out reference Winking smile so Paul was already planning to come to DC before Pamela was murdered huh.. I guess he had info that Serdeych was in town? or.. did Serdeych decide to make a move knowing Paul was coming to DC? Hmm..I guess we shall see! I don’t remember a lot of the plot detail in this one!]
Lee: You know it was 10 years ago I worked with him.3.02 WE'RE OFF TO SEE THE WIZARD.avi_000258024
[eek!! okay chronology thinkers! how does this fit with what Lee said in Dancing weasel?? and was Lee in Venice with Eva before or after? Something tells me I’m gonna be full of questions in this ep!]
Billy: I read the file. Another female agent was killed then – codename Dorothy?
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[Hmm Lee is not happy to hear her get a mention..]
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Lee: Yah. She was the first close friend I ever lost that way.
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[whooo cue the creepy chimes!!! ]
When I first watched this ep I assumed she was a dead love.. but now I don’t assume.. right now- I’m really not sure! hopefully together we can nut it out! Interesting that Lee describes her as a ‘close friend’ the same way he described Pamela… whom he had dated..oh and lol how did he describe Leslie in Over the Limit? I forget already! I’m going to keep this one in mind as we continue on with this 3.02 WE'RE OFF TO SEE THE WIZARD.avi_000270036episode..
Billy: Maybe Francine should handle this for you?

[handle what? Is Francine a ‘close friend’? does this mean former date.. and not necessarily a serious love affair? 😉 Oh boy.. I can see it now! we are all going to come back to the dating definition again! Smile Which is fine with me- just please explain if you think a date is serious, light, fun, romantic, between friends, never between ‘just’ friends..or all the above! 🙂 Gosh I can’t wait to hear what you make of all these women Lee has 3.02 WE'RE OFF TO SEE THE WIZARD.avi_000272806dated or been ‘close friends’ with ]
Lee: No…no. If this has anything to do with me,
I want to kno3.02 WE'RE OFF TO SEE THE WIZARD.avi_000276810w what and why.

 

Lee gets up and leaves Billy’s office.. presumably to head to the conference room.
I guess if all the women are agents who are former dates of Lee’s then Francine should be feeling a little nervous?..

Can’t wait to hear your thoughts everyone!!!
Been lurking?? do join in!!! we love to hear from you!! Remember- all opinions are welcome here and all are equally worthy of respect- so feel free to go for it and say what you think! go crazy!!! Smile [I know I do.. pretty much all the time Winking smile too many chicken salad sandwiches 😉 ]

Here’s where it gets interesting.. is Amanda also someone Lee has dated at this point?! Does this depend on the order of the first five episodes of season 3???!!!!! Or does it not?

I’m going to declare upfront my view- I don’t think Lee and Amanda have dated at this point. But.. the reason why isn’t going to be evident till the next episode (A lovely little affair) so I’ll hold off explaining myself about this for now..in the interests of not jumping ahead- apologies!

Okay everyone.. we got off to a errrr … ‘jiggly’ start to this ep.. but things are getting interesting! So fantastic to be able to slowly pick away at all the fabulously interesting nuggets hidden in this script- thanks again kiwismh! Looking forward to hearing what you think! byeeee for now!!

89 responses to “1/13 Season Three, Episode 02: We’re Off to See the Wizard- Scarecrow and Mrs King (Morley’s order: Episode 04)

  1. As for the date question, I think Lee probably did date miss boobies in the past, I’m sorry what was her name, Pam. I don’t think that necessarily means the dinner he planned with her was a date. I got the impression it was more like two people who once been close meeting to catch up when she came to town. Of course to Lee maybe that’s all dating entailed as he didn’t get close to many people, maybe it just meant when they were in the same town they hooked up. I personally, don’t think Lee had really thought through whether or not anything was going to happen. The fact that he knew Pamela was the 6th woman to die means he was already knew about the other 5, and even if hadn’t made the connection yet I am sure Lee was having hard time dealing with the deaths of 5 women he had been involved with. I like to think if you look at this episode as being after OTL that Lee had learned his lesson and wouldn’t have done anything with miss boobies if the opportunity had presented itself. I personally think it’s been a long time since Lee was even having those kind of relationships, but considering their past probably thought it would have been abrupt to just say no had she called asking him to dinner. Probably meant nothing.

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  2. Pingback: SEASON 3 Quick Links | "Just walk with me.."

  3. “Seems a bit silly to mention this when things are so serious and awful but.. what do you make of Lee’s tie everyone? I really don’t like this one!”
    Well, I know I’m late to this party, but Tie Patrol actually does like this tie… despite it bringing to mind something similar to a holstein/friesian crossed with a smurf wandering around in fog.
    Yeah, yeah – my recent trip to Mauna Kea may have helped bring this to mind: Beware of invisible cows… http://www.ifa.hawaii.edu/info/vis/natural-history/fauna/domestic-cow.html

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  4. I’d like to be Lee’s very very good friend…..Sigh. I can’t think much about anything after that.

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  5. Wow! Lots of good comments already. Knew this episode would probably do that. Lots to catch up on.

    kiwismh, you mentioned something that I was thinking about with Lee’s good friend comment and I think Bjo you mentioned something I was thinking as well. Lee hasn’t had a clue about friendships and real relationships because of his own background. He refers to a lot of people as good friends. He does it often in referring to his fellow co-workers. He moved from referring to Amanda as a friend to a good friend to a very, very good friend. I guess her status must have moved up in his mind. He hasn’t understood what it means to be a good friend. For him there hasn’t been any real emotion behind that word and it doesn’t have an emotional meaning to him. It has been a statement as opposed to a feeling. I think he has been realizing what it truly means in his friendship with Amanda. She has been showing him the true meaning of that word and I think he is learning to internalize it.

    As far as the word ‘date’ and what it all means and entails depends on what era you were born in and how you were raised. I had southern parents who referred to ‘courting’ and if there was dating it was of the group variety and you had to have a chaperone. When I was in college if you were seen hanging out with someone more than once or twice it was assumed that you were a couple and were dating. Now you can even have playdates for kids and adults. Maybe the focus should be on the 80s and what dating meant then.

    Loving the intense looking Lee. Maybe the show was trying to focus more on the drama with this episode. I can’t remember where I’ve seen Gabriel Macht before. I need to check that out, but I did see his son in a movie and thought he looked awfully familiar. Also, I’m reading the Wizard of Oz at this moment and will keep an eye out for any parallels.

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    • Hey Valerie! great to hear from you!! School all done now??

      Interesting thoughts on Lee’s overuse of ‘good friend’

      Hmm.. I just had a thought – and those who prefer to explain things through the characters may not like it haaa.. but in terms of driving the plot Lee referring to a ‘good friend’ increases the emotional stakes for Lee – and increases the drama in the story telling.. these were people Lee cared about.. sooo it’s pretty awful what’s going on..
      much more powerful than if Lee were to say oh yeah I dated her once. but hadn’t been in touch with her in years! or..
      ohhh yeah!! that girl!! she got killed? shame! gosh.. what was her name again? stacy something? 😉

      Indeed ‘date’ is very poorly defined.. especially at times between men and women – which can lead to all kinds of complications! I suspect men get a lot of mileage out of its loose definition.. it’s wonderfully useful for if you want to take a step back. – you think that was a date? nooo it was just hanging out! You is wrong gurl! 😉 I never led you on! I think it works well for guys…

      Though I do remember Lee very early on giving us a few moments where he defined something not as a date 😉 does that help? 🙂

      Some clarity would be brilliant.. and save a lot of heartache.. but I’ll hold off saying more because I referred to something to do with this in one of the posts I’ve written 2 or 3.. not sure which!

      do let us know what interesting tidbits you can find in the book Valerie! 🙂

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      • So true, iwsod, about the emotional stakes for Lee. I hadn’t thought about it that way. And he was able to recall the names of the women who weren’t necessarily agents. Good points. I guess there would be some sort of emotional connection with them, just maybe not very deep as Lee would probably hold someone at arms length, maybe trying not to get too close. He did seem pretty upset in TFOE when he was dumped for an airline pilot, but that was possibly his ego talking more than his emotions. The story wouldn’t play out very well if he didn’t have at least some emotional investment in these women.

        We have talked about how he does have some respect for women and I don’t see Lee as the sleaze that some do. I just can’t see Amanda caring for someone that was that sleazy and she is well aware that he has had a full dance card.

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        • Reading this made me think of something that we mention every once in a while. Lee really is a softy underneath it all. One of the reasons why I think Lee has tried to live a cavalier life style in the past is because he really does care deep down. I think to an extent he knows that about himself and he tried to work that Scarecrow persona to protect Lee. I do think his learning to allow himself to care about Amanda in these past two season, wasn’t so much a fear of leaving a lifestyle he liked, but a fear of knowing if it was safe to allow Lee to come out of the Scarecrow shell. Does that make sense?
          So with these women, I don’t think Lee would have brushed them off because he didn’t care, I think maybe he would try to brush them off because he could care? That is kind of a paradox, or something really confusing. Does anyone understand what I am trying to describe and do a better job of it than I am doing???

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          • Ooo, morley, I really like this. Yes, I do understand what you are saying and I agree.

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          • Makes perfect sense to me! Just reaffirms how complicated we all are which is the reason we spend a lifetime trying to understand ourselves and each other.

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          • Hi Morley, I always thought Lee lived that reckless lifestyle (moving from Bimbo to Bimbo) because of the dangerous job he had and wanting to live life to the fullest while he had the chance …that cavalier attitude from man who never knew if his current assignment would be his last. I dont think Lee ever thought there would be time for a serious relationship.

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  6. Oh boy, I am making up for lost time today, aren’t I?
    Two more thoughts: Dorothy… I won’t get into the questions about Dorothy yet. But. I think it is very significant that we learn that she was “the first close friend that he lost this way.” To me it is a big puzzle piece, not tha it is puzzling, but you know when you find that one jig saw puzzle piece that you have been looking for, put it into its place and then all of a sudden a whole section starts to come together really fast? To me this is one of those pieces.

    And second; that look on Lee’s face in your last picture is different than all the others in this post. I do think he is playing with blame shifting, who wouldn’t with such awful info. I mean you just want to find the easiest answer and accepting responsibility isn’t always easy. But there in that photo it looks like his more noble side, the one that has been getting stronger, has one this fight in the battle. He looks like he has resolved to deal with what is at his door. I am not sure if he maintains this throughout this episode, but we will see. For the moment though I do think he is resolved.

    OK, So I think I may have had my fill. Probably not… oh well

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  7. Wow — so many great thoughts in the comments — I feel like I need to do some sort of mind-mapping diagram to flesh out how they all fit together!

    First of all, this opening scene really confused me, too. I can’t figure out what we’re supposed to think about Pamela and Paul’s relationship here, or why it had to be complicated like this. Way to hook the audience with a little bit of tension that never gets revisited! I do agree that that dress is sending a “mixed signal” here, and maybe that’s partly why we get mixed signals about the impact of this scene. Such a weird beginning.

    Iwsod, regarding your comment about trying to keep JWWM a “happy, harmonious little haven” — I’d like to take this moment to say that it can be a real escape haven, insulated from the trials and stresses of everyday life. Thank you!

    “Heavy” is a good word to use about this episode. And there is a certain amount of ick factor, at least to me. But if I remember right, it didn’t leave me feeling down by the end — more like, “that hurt, but it was a good hurt”. And I think I’m going to like where it fits in this revised episode order. Yes, it delves a bit into Lee’s sleazy (or not-so-sleazy, depending on your viewpoint) past, but it seems to do so with the intention of laying some of it to rest. There’s been a lot implied, or stated in bits and pieces, about his womanizing. It’s time to get it all out in the open.

    I wonder if “good friend” is anything like “best agent” — i.e., they’re all good friends after they’re dead! Seriously, though, I do agree with those who find Lee using the term a bit freely/loosely, which tends to devalue its meaning. I also agree that he doesn’t seem to have special labels for the different kinds of relationships with women he’s had — they’re all lumped together. I will hold off talking more about Dorothy until we get there, but just from this scene with Billy, it didn’t seem at all like Dorothy was necessarily a romantic interest to Lee. More later. Because of Lee’s generalizations, his dinner with Pamela doesn’t have to have any special meaning. I think I commented on a previous episode that dinner is an accepted part of Agency culture for apologies, paybacks, and the like. In this case, most likely a getting together of old friends.

    How about this idea? When Lee says someone is a “good friend”, maybe he means what they have done for him, rather than how he feels about them. He seems to have an awareness and a gratitude for the part others have played in his life. He is intensely loyal to anyone who has done him a favor (Angelo, Emily, Harry V, and Amanda over and over) or who he thinks has a claim on him. That’s actually part of his reaction in this scene: If women are being murdered because of their association with him, he feels responsible and wants to do whatever he can to get to the bottom of it. So I can see how he could be saying of Pamela here, “She was a good friend to me” — she stuck up for me, stuck with me, taught me something, covered for me once, whatever.

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    • I love your analysis here Happycamper0! It really resonates for me. Haha! Now I don’t have to think it out anymore 😉 And I am in total agreement with you, JWWM is a lovely little haven that we get to be a part of! Cheers! glass raised in toast

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    • I think the circumstances of Lees childhood and upbringing meant he never developed any real, lasting friendships along the way. I think he doesn’t really understand what it is to have a true friend until Amanda comes along. Until then, I think anyone who is in his life for more than 5 minutes is categorised as a “friend” simply because he has no consistent experience (and therefore no understanding) of real friendship.

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    • Hi happycamper – like your comment here! I especially like how you compare the “good friend” title to the “best agent” title. Too funny! And I agree, based on this scene, I never really thought that Dorothy was a romantic interest for Lee. And I also really like what you propose Lee’s definition of a good friend.

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    • Great thoughts Happy Camper! Wonderful to hear from you!!

      Enjoyed your ideas on the ‘good friend’ .. makes sense! Lee would have an interesting definition of friend given his background.
      Then again he’s had a few ‘friends’ who have betrayed him.. tried to kill him.. soooo friend Is loaded!

      Ohh yeah I enjoyed that point about dinner being a bit transactional at the agency.. adds to Lee catching up with Pamela as a friend.. checking in, networking.. keeping those old connections going because you never know when you’ll need a hand 😉

      I’m leaning toward the Lee was catching up with Pamela for dinner because it had been ages and they are friends, old flames too.. but now? just friends.. but I think the episode leaves it open for us to think what we like!

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  8. Ok, I haven’t read anyone else’s comments yet. I have been so distracted by real life (and not fun stuff) over these past few days and I haven’t even had the time or energy to even try to find this most wonderful of rabbit holes. But I am going to force myself to think SMK thoughts for just a few minutes and see what happens.
    First of all… man this episode is heavy! It even starts out heavy.As I think about it in this order coming after Weasel and our introduction to Harry, meeting Paul Barns is interesting. Harry was a kind, warm, fatherly character. Someone rather personable and nurturing (at least in my perspective). But Paul Barns always makes me nervous ( and I have no idea what other roles the actor has played). I think as we see Lee beginning to think and reflect upon his life, which I do think is a big part of what is happening to him, we are introduced to men who represent possible outcomes of the lifestyle that Lee has led. Here we see Paul Barns, driven and a playboy, he can’t get the girl or the guy. Hmm?

    And then we see Lee encountering some of his chickens coming to roost ( does that saying make sense here?) I often ask myself what Lee’s reaction would have been if this episode would have taken place in an earlier season.

    I do not think that the dinner that Lee had planned with Pamela would have been a date. I think that Lee has at this point learned how to have authentic friendship with a woman so that not every moment with an attractive woman would be an opportunity for a liaison. Maybe, at the most, he might have been testing to see if he could find someone else attractive. Maybe he had reflected enough of on the lacking dynamic with Leslie that he was testing a hypothesis that he was coming up with. Maybe he was trying to see if his newly forming enjoyment and awareness of Amanda was a consistent thing? But I think that is as far as I would take this idea.

    I think Lee’s use of “good friend” is rather generic. I think the word “friend” is a bit of a blanket statement. But when it is accompanied by trust then it is more specific and accurate.

    And, lastly, I think it would be interesting to compare this episode with Burn Out, or at least keep it in mind as we walk through it.

    Well, it sure was nice to spend some time here. Back to my regularly scheduled programming (at least for a little bit) I plan on being here much more often in just a few days. I hope my plans succeed!

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    • I like Paul. He’s intense but he doesn’t make me nervous.
      It did occur to me during this opening sequence that it was in the writer’s mind to present Paul as a version of what Lee could be in 10-15 years if he survived to that age and if Amanda had never come into his life. Intense and driven in his work, still leading an active and perhaps more desperate social life with the ladies, but every day losing more and more faith in his fellow humans and the world at large.
      I like your comments about Lee and how he would have viewed his dinner with Pamela, and the notion that maybe he was trying to see if his newly forming enjoyment and awareness of Amanda was a consistent thing. This concept in respect of Amanda may be beginning to come more into focus for him at this point.

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      • I don’t dislike Paul, but I am not sure of his character… maybe because the writers want us to be suspicious of him,. Or maybe it is because he has a harder edge to him due to the work he has done and how long he has done it. With Lee we grow to count on that softer side, we know it is there, we know there is a rock solid loyalty in him, that is why episodes like Savior work. We are like Amanda about Lee’s character, we would bet an apple pie that Lee would never be a traitor. But I don’t think I would be willing to risk an apple pie on Paul Barns.
        I need to re-watch this episode, but that is my remembrance of it. I will “have” to watch it soon, now that we have arrived at its door.

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      • Yeah, I’m with you kiwismh. I like Paul too.

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    • Morley, you’ve done it again. Given me a look at a another level of this show to consider. Your comparison of Lee to Paul is quite interesting!

      And I’m also curious to hear how you compare this episode to Burnout. I’m sure I have no idea what to expect.

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      • Remind me about Burn Out as we go through this episode. I have no idea what a comparison will turn up, but the thought hit me as I read Iwsod’s mention of Burn Out. Who knows what it might reveal?

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  9. I’m going to have to spend more time with a response tomorrow but I just have to give a shout out to Harvey Specter’s father (yum Gabriel Macht) of Suits fame. He’s definitely less creepy than his dad – Paul Barnes.

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    • Oh, cool bit of trivia, Allofakind! I love Harvey Specter and Suits!

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      • sorry allofakind and BJo, I’m not familiar with suits! but I’ll keep an eye out for it!

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        • Yes, I would definitely check it out if you get the chance! I saw the first two seasons on Prime, but not the third yet. And I just checked – 3 is now on Prime so I’ll have to watch it! Yippee! Hooray for Wizard and Allofakind’s shout out!! Okay, I’ll stop – I know this is off topic!

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  10. Oh boy. The Wizard episode. Not one of my top favorites. Momentous, yes. But not a fave. It’s just too weird of a plot line and it took me until recently to understand some of it.

    I just have one question for Ms. Pamela…if she didn’t want her date to spend the night, then why on earth is she wearing that dress???? And why, oh why, can a man look sexy as hell in a tux, but a woman has to wear something revealing to generally be thought of in the same way??? And I’m not talking about Ms. Pamela and the Wizard.

    LOL – those two women in the pictures don’t look like an Anne Marie Johnson and Stacy Smith!

    Hmmm, I think Lee has many different definitions of good friends. Orlando in SOS was a good friend too. It seems if you save Lee’s life you also might qualify as a good friend. I think it just means that Lee has had some sort of transaction with the person – business related or otherwise. And Amanda is a very, very, very (are there three?) good friend of Lee’s in CWars.

    I find Lee’s tie to be quite unattractive. It seems so random – like the picture on a broken TV set.

    Oh gosh, Poor Lee. He’s the connection to all these murdered women. I do feel bad for him – despite the fact that he’s dated all of them in the past. He’s been an agent for 10+ years, so that’s a lot of time to date a lot of women.

    At this point, regardless of the episode, I do not consider Lee and Amanda to have dated.

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    • I think a woman can look gorgeous without the booooobies hanging out.. KJ is living proof of that!

      I am thinking the booooobies were Emmy Bait! 🙂

      Hey cool thoughts on ‘good friends’ – I’m gonna keep my ears open for this as we progress.. I’ve written the next 2 posts and it comes up again. but great to keep in mind your references to early ‘good friends’ BJo!

      Maybe one point out of all this is that Lee doesn’t distinguish- maybe that is noteworthy in itself.. It seems to me to be a very generic way to describe people in your life – maybe it’s a sign of how he has lacked boundaries in the past?
      did he sleep with her? didn’t he? either way they are a good friend – when seems to me.. it should kinda make a difference.. no?

      I don’t see Lee and Amanda as having dated yet either BJo

      I’ll think some more on this one..
      okay back to my work! it’s been fun!! byeee

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      • Hey iwsod! Yeah, I tend to think it is a general description to Lee. There are a lot of people who he would call good friends, that don’t seem to be at the good friend level of friendship. But then again, maybe that’s how a man defines it – LOL!

        did he sleep with her? didn’t he? either way they are a good friend – when seems to me.. it should kinda make a difference.. no?

        Not sure what you mean by that – but Lee does not need to sleep with a woman for her to be a good friend – Emily and Amanda are prime examples of that. I know you know that, so I think that’s why I’m not sure what you meant.

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        • Hiya!

          You are correct! I did think you don’t need to sleep with Lee to be his good friend 🙂

          I was commenting on how Lee refers to every body the same way with the same label- that he doesn’t have a special label for women he has dated..or slept with or whatever! 🙂

          Silly me, I’m thinking if you’ve slept with someone there is a level of intimacy there that isn’t there with platonic friends- and if you disagree don’t worry.. I don’t expect others to view it the same way as me 🙂
          I find it interesting that for Lee, he doesn’t seem to make any differentiation.. when everyone is a good friend, it kind of devalues those who truly are a good friend.. it just struck me.. I’m probably not making much sense..
          I need to sleep!

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          • Iwsod, you need to sleep? it’s 12.30am here in NZ – what am I still doing awake?! Yikes! Doing some transcribing. Not sleepy but time for some shut-eye now I think regardless. Night all! 😎 <<< sleep shades 😉

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          • Yes, one would think that sleeping with someone does imply a level of intimacy that is not there with platonic friends. And you are making sense – when everyone is a good friend, then no one is a good friend. He certainly has a loose definition of what a good friend is. Perhaps it’s a trust thing. In the spy business, it’s hard to trust anyone. He’s developing trust in Amanda through their professional and personal relationships, so perhaps that’s what we’re seeing as one big difference between his relationship with Amanda and all his other “good friends” out there.

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            • Doesn’t Lee describe Amanda as a very good friend of his (?? A few episodes ago) and everyone else as just a good friend?

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              • Yep, that’s Car Wars. Lee calls her a very, very good friend – or even uses 3 “very’s”. I’m too lazy to go check. It was when he was pressing Mario hard in his interrogation of him.

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                • Me too. I think maybe that was the redeeming moment in Car Wars

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                  • Agree Learjet – that line alone made the episode worthwhile.. that and the drycleaning dropping ‘well I’m just glad you’re alright, that’s what’s important’ moment!!! 🙂

                    I checked and found it in the final post of the ep Lee says: “That lady happens to be a very very good friend of mine!” -whoa!!!!! I guess that’s distinguishing Amanda from all these other ‘good friends’ no?? 🙂

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                • There is something very special about Lee’s use of the word “very”, just saying 😉

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            • I agree that a level of intimacy should be created when people sleep together, I would go as far as to say it is created just due to the nature of the act. And because I think is created whether individuals acknowledge it or not, I think is speaks very loudly to the state of that individuals emotional well being if they can no longer distinguish the difference between a relationship where that intimacy is shared and where it hasn’t been. ( This is just my personal opinion and it is OK if you disagree, it is just a way for me to think about and understand Lee’s journey). To me this is important because it illustrates the power and strength of what Amanda and Lee are building and experiencing as their relationship progresses. There is a lot of healing and renewing of both of theirs, but mostly Lee’s emotional well being (in this episode). In fact I think this episode is rather pivotal in this regard.

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              • Yes, in an ideal world a level of intimacy should be created, but it isn’t always, especially from the male side of things. They are so very good at compartmentalising, pretending, and keeping everything oh so superficial. I thinking “real life” again – not SMK-land. 😉
                I agree this is all personal opinion, there is no right or wrong. I think I have said it before, we are all informed by the events and experiences of our own lives and maybe my experiences are just a wee bit “darker” than others.
                I do like your comments about the power and strength of what Lee and Amanda are building and Lee’s emotional well-being. You are very wise about these things Morley.

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                • Actually kiwismh, I think that was the point I was trying to make. You just said it better. That compartmentalizing, pretending and keeping everything superficial is what keeps the intimacy from being recognized and responded to and then callousness and hurt is created instead of intimacy, especially when the liaisons are pursued to fulfill some unrecognized need. At least that is how I see Lee’s life up until recently in our walk. Does that make sense?

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              • Hey Morley! Great to have you back! I’ve gotta be brief. got 9 hours to get in my assignment here.. and then – I’ll have more smk time!! whoo hoo!!

                Just wanted to say – I am thinking along the same lines as this comment Morley, but I haven’t fully connected my thoughts on the episode and the lessons learned or the journey…
                I’m trying hard to stay with this story as it unfolds – so I’m not yet at the point of figuring out the point of it all..
                And…If I think something I want to be able to say why, and so far- I am not far enough into the episode to pull together any meaning. I speculate..throw out ideas.. hypothesise maybe? but that’s about it for now 🙂

                I really enjoy going into an episode with an open mind-actually I think ‘Blank Mind’ would probably be more apt!!!! tee hee.. because I barely remember what goes on in this ep!
                lol.. sometimes I don’t draw an immediate conclusion about things in episodes… I wait and see and ponder.. and discuss – and for me it’s part of this journey that I love!

                Okay, I can’t read all these comments right now eek!
                I’ll be back when my assignment is handed in 🙂 byeeee

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                • Did I go to far into the episode with my comments? I admire your “blank mind” abilities, Iwsod. I try. But I think I have always been a see the whole forest, then recognize the trees kind of person. Actually , I think that way of learning and thinking always messed me up in grade school. Maybe I create immediate hypothesis and then see if the details fit into the puzzle. Maybe if I put question marks on my sentences and leave them as questions it will help you to keep a “blank mind” while I try to still figure out the forest so I can see the trees?

                  Good luck and great amounts of concentration to you for the next 9 hours. What fun you will have at the end of it! 🙂

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                  • Hey! just got saw this email so thought I’d pop in to quickly say – all is cool 🙂

                    I was just explaining that I can’t yet comment on what it all means – for now I’m gathering data 🙂 I love your take on the big picture – but first post into an episode I can’t really take it in yet because I haven’t experienced the episode yet.. so if I don’t respond you’ll know why.. that’s all 🙂

                    I’ll be back!

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                    • That is because you are looking at the trees… great, glad it is all cool. I will get to the trees in a minute, got to scope out the whole forest first. Meet you in the middle 😉

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    • I am in the Amanda and Lee haven’t had a “date” yet category as well, but then everyone knows that about me already 😉

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  11. Where’s a Wizard Whopper when you need one?

    ROFLMAO!!! Yep, that one gets an “A” 🙂 Just glad I didn’t have a mouthful of something or I woulda choked!

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  12. I puzzled over Lee’s comment about Pamela – “We were supposed to have dinner tonight”. Not because I thought he was lining up a wham bam thank you Maa’am with her but more because I couldn’t figure out why Paul and Pamela weren’t travelling back to DC together if they were both headed back the next day (the basis for this comment will make more sense in the next post I think). Also, Lee new Pamela was coming to DC, but he didn’t know Paul was flying in. Weird.
    I think Lee having dinner with Pamela was just that – having dinner with her as an old friend (who he has had, shall we say, “liaisons” with in the past). I don’t think now he has in mind to carry on that habit with anyone. Lee knows he’s moved on from casual hook-ups now but he hasn’t exactly concentrated on why he’s made this change. Deep down he knows, but he’s still pretending he doesn’t know. Y’know? 😉
    Pamela’s dress doesn’t bother me. Revealing, yeah, but par for the course for an attractive, social woman of that time.
    Love already how we see this episode is going to really throw Lee’s past dating life into the spotlight. I get the feeling we will learn a lot about Lee’s progression in this episode and where he’s at now in this respect.

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    • That’s a good question about Paul and Pamela’s traveling arrangements. They work together, they’re traveling from the same point A to the same point B on the same day, and they’re close enough to be having an apparently social dinner with Paul thinking that he might even get an invitation to spent the night . . . yet they’re not traveling together. I suppose they could have made their travel arrangements separately, only telling each other about it that evening, but it does seem kind of funny.

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    • Yep, kiwismh, just one of the many plot snags that have always bugged me about this episode. I think we’re all going to get to go on a little trip to Oz this episode.

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    • whoooo kiwismh is the first to broach the ‘is it a date’? subject! 🙂

      In my post I threw it out there – and didn’t really draw conclusions about it.. I’m still pondering this one!

      why didn’t Paul and Pamela travel back together?
      That didn’t bug me.. hmm .. why?! let me think.. I figured Pamela was an MI-6 agent (maybe had a desk next to Emily haaa) and Paul was agency.

      Pamela didn’t seem to be part of the oz network (unless it is multinational?!) because the way she talks about serdeych is like that is Paul’s thing – that he will catch him, not ‘us’ ..

      So I guess I saw this as a date, and Paul had spent a lot of the night talking about serdeych, obsessing about him probably – and probably boring Pamela with it just a bit 😉

      If they don’t work for the same organisation, it doesn’t seem strange to me that they flew separately.. especially when Paul is in super covert mode..

      Soooooo now- Lee’s having dinner with Pamela.. interesting! Weren’t some believing a man and a woman having dinner would have been called ‘a date’? so when Lee and Amanda went out, that was a date? .. its not what I think but maybe I’m wrong in remembering what others thought??

      If Lee was meeting Pamela for a date, that doesn’t mean it would have been a ‘wham bam’ – after Over the Limit he has moved on from that behaviour.. maybe it was a date to get to know Pamela better?
      I can’t see anything that would rule out this being an actual date. Anyone?
      I don’t see Lee as dating Amanda now – only that he has realised flings are no longer what he is looking for.
      Does that rule out a date with Pamela? (I don’t have an answer I’m just throwing this out there to discuss..I continue to ponder! 🙂 )
      At the same time, I also think it’s just as likely she is an old flame who is stopping by and will catch up with Lee.. just two old friends catching up.. nothing more.
      Which is how I saw Lee and Amanda’s dinner – two friends catching up.. and nothing more. and no not a date! sooo I guess with how I’m thinking at the moment.. either works for me! lol!
      oh yeah!!! Lee’s past dating life in the spotlight?! sooo true.. it’s going to be a bumpy but fascinating ride!

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      • Yeah, that was me classing a man/woman dinner together as a date but I got hammered on that point so I retired to my corner to lick my wounds and sulk, er, I mean, contemplate. 😉 I guess I was thinking then of how men are in real life – maybe I’ve just been unfortunate in that regard.
        Anyhoo, I don’t think Lee intended to bed Pamela, just have dinner with her. If she had lived to have the dinner with him, I am sure Pamela would have perceived a difference in Lee from when she last saw him.
        Maybe Pamela declined Paul’s advances because she thought she would be sleeping with Lee the next night – she may be sociable but I would like to give her credit for not being a whore.
        And by the same token I don’t see Lee as sleazy for having bedded a few women in his time. It would be weird for a very attractive, single man, who gets to meet many attractive women, not to have an active social life. Whilst it can be sleazy, I think the way Lee conducted his “affairs” and that he was always careful to date like-minded women (I,e. not lead a woman on who might think it was more than a night of fun) and the fact that it seems he was always gentlemanly and thoughtful with the women he dated, shows that his behaviour wasn’t sleazy.
        Sleazy guys are just that – sleazy. They just want the action, they’re into not very pleasant male mags, etc, ogling and wolf-whistling, and they usually ain’t no BB in the looks department either.

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        • Hey Kiwismh!

          >Yeah, that was me classing a man/woman dinner together as a date…

          Ah! I had no idea if it was one or many people.. I wish I could remember things like that.. alas!

          >but I got hammered on that point so I retired to my corner to lick my wounds and sulk, er, I mean, contemplate. 😉 I guess I was thinking then of how men are in real life – maybe I’ve just been unfortunate in that regard.

          Oh nooo!!! did you really feel hammered? I try to listen to all viewpoints, but I’m not perfect and might get it wrong sometimes – sorry to hear you felt that way. Or are you teasing me kiwismh? I’m thinking it could be either -ha! sooo I’ll play it safe and ensure you are okay and know I always want to hear what you think whether I agree with it or not – [except if you jump ahead with the story haaaa then I’ll skip the comments!! tee heee 😛 ]

          >Anyhoo, I don’t think Lee intended to bed Pamela, just have dinner with her. If she had lived to have the dinner with him, I am sure Pamela would have perceived a difference in Lee from when she last saw him.

          I’m being lazy and quoting you! This is a very interesting thought! Lee is at a point where the show hasn’t made it obvious (well IMHO!) where Lee is at.. so I think there will be lots of ideas about this dating thing..
          Would Pamela have noticed a difference? Is Lee that different at this point? If it were season 4 I’d say no doubt – but here?
          I don’t know the answer. I’m with Amanda – on watch, wait and see status!!! 🙂

          “Sleazy”.. hm.. ahh I see you are referring to BJo’s comment?
          I don’t know that I’d disagree with what you say here Kiwismh, and I don’t even necessarily see Lee as not dating Pamela at this point – I’m pretty open about him being an available guy at this point still.
          At the same time, ‘sleazy’ is a matter of opinion, and how BJo defines it might differ from you definition.. it would certainly be interesting to hear BJo respond to your comments 🙂

          I did find Lee in Lost and Found to be behaving in a way that was umm.. unacceptable? A married woman should be off limits.. it wasn’t Lee’s shining moment, but nor was it typical.. but maybe it is things like that which BJo referred to when thinking ‘sleazy’? I don’t know!!
          I am sure Bjo can explain for herself.. but it did come to my mind that I was not finding Lee’s behaviour attractive in that circumstance!

          >Whilst it can be sleazy, I think the way Lee conducted his “affairs” and that he was always careful to date like-minded women (I,e. not lead a woman on who might think it was more than a night of fun) and the fact that it seems he was always gentlemanly and thoughtful with the women he dated, shows that his behaviour wasn’t sleazy.

          Hmm.. I’m struggling to answer this without jumping ahead in the story! Soooo I’ll have to hold off and come back to this 😦 – I know I’ve referred to this in the next two posts at least – Lee’s dating history.. and I’m pretty sure we’ll be discussing throughout the whole ep huh!

          Oh true.. your final description of a sleaze there is definitely ick.. though I think the mags are gone and the internet has replaced it. I definitely don’t see Lee as being one of those men!!! Though there are aspects of his history which are not perfectly attractive – I love that the show goes there – and we’ll cover this as we continue!!! 🙂

          phew.. think I managed to express myself without jumping ahead? sheesh! 🙂

          As always, have enjoyed hearing from you Kiwismh! byeeee

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          • Oh Iwsod, ROFL, no need for any stress counselling for me. The “hammering” that occurs on JWWM is like getting hammered with a sparrow’s feather compared with the real life hammering from uptight people and stress bunnies I deal with every day (which also is nothing that a few minutes of Billy Connelly You Tube clip counselling can’t make right). My comments were very tongue in cheek. It’s all good fun here. I must remember that my wicked sense of humour (which maybe an entirely Kiwi thing – you agree, KC?) might be misinterpreted by more sensitive souls.
            Iwsod said Would Pamela have noticed a difference? Is Lee that different at this point? If it were season 4 I’d say no doubt – but here? I wasn’t referring to romantically attached to Amanda Lee here, which isn’t obviously the case yet. I was actually meaning Pamela (who I think is – was – a smart, perceptive woman) would notice that he has matured and changed in others ways – he’s certainly not the same man now that he was in TFT.
            Re sleazy comments – it was in relation to BJo’s comments. Again, I was talking about Lee’s dating history (seen and implied) to date. I just don’t see his past attitudes and behaviour towards women as sleazy.

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            • Sheesh!! normal kiwismh world sounds crazy! 🙂

              Ha! glad I gave you a laugh..
              I’ve learned the hard way to be careful online 😦 I’m very aware that what I think something means may not be how others see it.
              Sooo I try to be sensitive and do what I can to keep JWWM a happy harmonious little haven (cos kiwismh, it sounds like you need it! 😛 )
              Hopefully you’ll all take me in good faith- cos I know I won’t always get things right – and heck… if I get it wrong – I’ll give you a laugh kiwismh! win win! 🙂

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            • I do think Pamela would have noticed a difference in Lee. A lot has changed in Lee since BAI, maybe even since SOS? I think she would notice that maybe he wouldn’t be pressing for an all nighter (like Paul Barns was). Maybe he listens better? Maybe he would talk about different things or make remarks about different parts of life, I do think he notices more than he used to about people. Maybe she would notice that he isn’t attentive in the ways he used to be and is more attentive in other ways?

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          • Actually, I wasn’t referring to Lee’s behavior in Lost and Found when I called him sleazy. I did find his kissing Ava to be unacceptable, but I guess I gave him a pass because it was an incredibly difficult and emotional moment for him and he had no idea what else to do except to kiss her. He’s still emotionally immature at that point, although I do think he learns a ton from that experience with her. I think he may also even regret kissing her, but I’m not sure because he doesn’t seem like the type to look back. Plus based on what Ava told him before he kissed her, she was no longer in love with Angelo – or at least I think that’s what she said. It still doesn’t make it okay for him to do, strictly speaking though. If Lee was trying to steal her away on purpose while she still love Angelo, I would probably just jump to the “evil” category, but I don’t see Lee ever doing that. Women who are married in their hearts would be off-limits to Lee.

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            • What I like about SMK is that it allows us to see what lies behind Lee’s behavior. I kind of mentioned this when I made my comment about “good friends” and intimate physical relationships. I like the way we get to see Lee grow and change. Yes, some people are just sleazy,I agree Lee’s early behavior (maybe especially before we meet him and early season 1) is candidate for Lothario sleaze. But sometimes men (and women) like that never change. But Lee does, and I don’t just call it maturation. Its not like he is a teenager. He is in his 30’s and he still hadn’t encountered a catalyst for maturation. To mean that yells that there is some foundational wound in his back ground that needs healing before he can really become whole and mature. And so I can view his previous behavior as a way that he is trying to meet a need that he hasn’t been able to articulate yet. All I can say is thank goodness Amanda showed up in his life. I don’t think I could care much for Lee’s character if he hadn’t begun to grow due to his interaction with her.

              I think that is the greatest reason why I like this episode, it kind of frames that whole aspect of their relationship very nicely. And it happens before they really embark on a romance. And I think that timing is “very,very” important ( to use Lee’s phraseology)

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              • Like this Morley. 🙂
                I like this episode too because it is a bit grittier than average and does move both Lee and Amanda along a bit more in their understanding of themselves and each other, especially Lee. But don’t want to jump ahead of where we are at so will leave it there.

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        • I think we just have different definitions of sleazy. I think sleaze can be a relative term also. Sleazy to me is being immoral beyond the average guy. I don’t attach looks to it. And I do think there are classes of sleaze – high to low. Lee would be in the high-class sleaze category because of what you say – he comes across as a noble sleaze so to speak. In general though, I think you’re probably right – most people would define sleazy more like you have, so maybe I did make a poor choice of that word.

          I put Lee in the sleazy category based on his past behavior that we have been given the impression of. He says Cradle (?) in OOADP doesn’t sleep around more than your average guy, which tells me Lee is well aware of what average is. Given his looks and his charm, I’m thinking Lee gets around more than average. But that’s just an impression. I think most of us at some point have figured Lee to be an office lothario and I think we all accept that he’s a playboy – in it for the pleasure for himself and to give to the woman (noble sleaze). But I think Lee has also waded into icky sleaze for me just a tad too much with the “Lee” and “She” robes in his apartment in SBTB, the article of clothing in his ice bucket which I always thought was some sort of ladies’ lingerie, and the cheap frozen cake and cheap champagne with Randy in ALSALS. Billy called Lee a highly paid agent in CW, so I’m thinking he could have ponied up the dough for a nicer cake and bottle of champagne.

          I don’t think Lee is a complete sleaze at all, but I also have a hard time ignoring what we’ve seen of his past so far. I think Amanda might feel similarly about his past as well, she knows he “goes through them” (TTFOE) and that’s why it takes her much longer than Lee to trust her heart to him IMHO. I don’t know how Amanda defines sleazy, so I have no idea if she ever thought that about him. If I had to guess, I’d probably say no – I think her first impression of an American Agent fighting for his country, while being totally handsome to boot, might override a lot of his past behavior.

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        • I was another who said the dinner after OTL was a date and I still think that. I don’t think it meant he was starting an exclusive dating relationship with Amanda or that every dinner between a man and a woman is a date. I didn’t think it was odd that Lee would have dinner with Pamela at all. There are a million plot holes, including why she didn’t travel to DC with Paul and why they acted like they were saying goodbye for a while if they were both going to be in the same place 24 hours later. But I don’t think Lee’s dinner with Pamela has any impact on whether or not Lee’s dinner with Amanda meant more than just two co-workers having a meal.

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          • I think it might to me. Only because I do not think Amanda would go on what she would consider a “date” with lee if he was also going to go on “dates” with other women. That is too much gray area for a friendship that has been very carefully kept out of gray areas. Just my opinion 🙂

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            • I agree Morley, I don’t see Amanda going on a date with Lee until she is sure of where he stands when it comes to him and women..(yes! no grey!) we’re not quite there yet IMHO 🙂

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          • Yep, still with you Allofakind – you have described the “date” situation well here.

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          • Hey allofakind.. I posted a comment sharing my thoughts on why they didn’t travel together. I didn’t find it strange.. I didn’t find it strange they could be flying to DC not together.. and I didn’t assume they would be seeing each other in dc.. they both had their own things on. for what it’s worth!

            I’m not thinking dinner with Pamela is a plot hole. it could have been a date.. or it could have just been an old friend catch up.. but.. it’s fun to ponder and wonder! 🙂

            Great to hear from ya!

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      • Interesting, iwsod! Pamela an MI-6 agent? I think you’re probably right. Why else would Paul be discussing Serdeych with her? So at least she’s cleared for Paul to be sharing with her. I don’t think I’ve ever thought of this as a date between Paul and Pamela – mostly because she’s wearing that dress but doesn’t want him to spend the night. (Then again, I’m the worst to judge clothing choices, so I know I could be completely wrong with that.) I have always thought it was some sort of embassy-like party or function and Paul needed a “date”, but that it wasn’t necessarily a date, more like a favor to a friend thing. I’m thinking these two have spent the night together in the past, but Pamela for whatever reason is not interested tonight.

        I think I always thought that when Lee said he was having dinner with Pamela, it could have ended up with her spending the night. Now though, with Leslie and Amanda running around in Lee’s head, I think that it probably would have just been dinner and drinks at the bar. I think Lee has worked with Pamela on at least one case in the past. It seems like there is some connection to him and Paul, so it’s likely it’s been a while since Lee’s seen her. And who in their right mind wouldn’t try to see Lee if they were coming to D.C. for a visit? Especially if they thought he’d say yes?

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  13. “I guess if all the women are agents who are former dates of Lee’s then Francine should be feeling a little nervous?” ROFL! didn’t think anything about the beginning of this episode would make me laugh but you did Iwsod!
    I must have something desperately wrong with me because I hated “dating” with a passion. No sense of adventure maybe… I come from the “just hanging out” era. There is so much about Lee’s legions of women that fundamentally makes me crazy that I prefer to emulate the ostrich. Only instead I have a rabbit hole and chocolate to make my escape from reality plus I rewrite it all I my head anyway. 😉

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    • Oh and yes, Pamela’s dress looks like a cheap knock off of a tacky Dynasty frock. Just saying….. Booooooobies 😆

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    • I’m with you jule…I do not like learning about Lee’s Legionettes. I think it reminds me too much that he started out in the sleezy category, even though lately he appears to be coming around.

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    • Thanks Jule! sooo happy to hear it gave you a chuckle 🙂

      I think Pamela believed in the ‘just hanging out’ era too.. but of a different variety! whahahahaaa

      indeed.. Lee and us the audience face a few of Lee’s less attractive realities during this episode.. I am guessing we’ll find him even hunkier by the end of it!

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  14. I thought the Eva fiasco was 2 years before that dreaded episode aired. (I remember thinking it would have been easier for me to believe if Lee was younger when he thought he was in love with Eva.)

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    • I have no idea! anyone else able to shed some light on this?

      Or I’ll try and get back to reading lost and found next week. err if I remember! brain like a sieve at the moment!

      Yeah I’d want it to be at least 15 years for Lee to be immature enough for Eva ha!

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      • SERIOUS ICK ALERT: From the transcripts on Petra’s site
        Eva: Well, I would never leave him until I saw him safe and happy. (Lee nods.) I may never leave him. (She walks closer.) But I want you to know, in case it is never to be said, that I have loved you for all of those two years since I last saw you. END ICK ALERT. .

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        • Maybe she hadn’t seen him for 15 years.. and it was only the first two of those that she still loved Lee haaaaa 😉

          I’ll check out the episode we got though, it did feel like more time had passed. I don’t know!

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  15. Well, I’ve never seen the guy who plays Paul Barnes before and I find him really oily and sleazy. And the woman – eeeww – that dress is extremely revealing for SMK (maybe the psychologists out there can explain why Pamela looks so, well, cheap and what the purpose of this is?). As for the next scene – at least Lee looks good in the grey suit. BTW talking about the tinkly music, didn’t this episode win an Emmy for the music? Yes, Google says it did.

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    • Hey Learjet! It’s early for you no? 🙂
      I’m about to get into my work here (soo will need to sign out of here and not distract myself!)

      Just quickly – I don’t think we need psychologists to answer, I think we need people with an imagination haaaa! (though some may argue that suits some psychologists.. Freud had a vivid imagination 😉 )

      Those of us here who love to figure out a way to make things work in the plot – I’m curious to hear how you would respond to Learjet’s great question!

      For me? I’m thinking when Pamela opens the door, the direction at this point wanted to steer us towards thinking that it really could be Paul at the door – and makes us start to question if this guy really is tender and accepting of a no after all.. And because Pamela’s dress was so provocative (I thought everything about her was except the actual words she said) – they could have been going for the idea that Pamela teased him a little too much and he didn’t like it?

      That or.. how to hook in viewers and get them to keep watchng? a bit of Seeeex and Booooobies in the first minute! yeah!!! that will get the attention of those Emmy voters!!! 🙂 Let me guess – most of them were men back in the 80s??!!!!

      How am I doin?

      Yeah good catch on the Emmy.. I think I mention that in the next post. I didn’t notice the music in this first one (other than it yelling at me ‘baddie behind the door’!!)
      but I noticed it lots in the second.. I find the tinkly music hilarious! but at the same time.. Poor Lee huh!

      Okay byeee for now!

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      • I like the part about Pamela’s words saying “no” but her dress saying “yes.” It’s sad but true. It reminds me of a rant my mother went on once when we were watching a different movie and there was a girl in a similar style of dress. Basically, it’s the idea of not advertising what you’re not prepared to offer. Like the other girl, Pamela’s sending out mixed signals. :p

        I agree, though, that it was probably a plot device to make us wonder if it really was Paul, angry at being rejected.

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        • Oh gosh, you know, in all the times I’ve watched this episode, I don’t think I’ve ever thought that it was Paul who came back to kill Pamela. I don’t know why. I find this episode very confusing. But I can see what you’re saying, Jestress, about the plot device, but they didn’t do a very good job of it. Or maybe I’m just a bit dense. 🙂

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    • Maybe it was to cause suspicion on Paul…. But I also think the dress may have been chosen to create contrast between where Lee was and where he is now, between what has become of Paul and what is becoming of Lee, between lifestyles, between Amanda and those other women and the lifestyle that Amanda leads and is drawing Lee into even by his friendship with her. We see city lights at night and a sparkly, revealing red dress and a man pushing advances and loosing perspective over a case. And we will compare this to how Lee deals with things. Maybe?

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