It’s tag time! Sorry this post is extra big- but no way I am cutting it! Back at IFF, whooo we haven’t seen this exterior shot for a while! I’m sure this was in season 1. It must be coming up to spring time again! ! Is that Amanda’s old car? I think it might be!!?
In Billy’s office, the tag opens with a close up on a certificate for Amanda!
We find Amanda in Billy’s office – surrounded by Billy, Lee, Francine (up the back- haa!) and a bunch of nameless agents.
Oh swoon!! Just look at Lee here??!!! As the shot pans out, he looks sooo proud of Amanda!!!
Billy: For service to her country above and beyond the call of duty, this Certificate of Valour is hereby presented to Mrs Amanda King, and it’s signed by the President.
Everyone claps. Even Francine can be seen given a little smile and clapping in the background.
Amanda: Oh, I really don’t deserve this.
Amanda sounds a bit shy and uncertain here..she is certainly not use to this kind of recognition!! Ahhh Amanda.. modest as usual.. looking forward to hearing what you all think of that line of Amanda’s!
Lee: Yes, you do… [Lee sounds Adamant- don’t argue with him Amanda!]
..You had the presence of mind of pretending to be shot, you overheard Brackin’s conversation and plans, and recruited help. [saved Lee’s life.. ] Now I would say that deserves an award!
Hmmm all professional achievements.. no mention of the personal here.. Lee doesn’t thank her here for trusting him so fully and wonderfully..Interesting, when you compare this to the listing of her achievements at the end of Life of the Party- Very similar!! Only, then they were alone.. and Lee got personal
At the risk of sounding like I have sour grapes over this award, I can’t help but think Amanda has done heaps more important things for the country than catching a couple of guys who stole $3million of the agency’s $$… [okay okay, they killed three burned out agents..but still..] Amanda has stopped a plane with the poison gas that was going to poison DC?? and stopped a nuclear bomb going off and destroying DC ahem.. okay.. half the east coast! ya know?.. those kinds of national security things.. and no award?
Amanda (to Billy): Well, thank you very much, sir.
Billy: You’re welcome, Amanda.
Other agents join in congratulating Amanda..except Francine haaaa..
Just look at Lee smiling away.. so proud of Amanda, and happy for her to get this recognition!
Amanda: Thank you. Oh, thank you so much. Thank you.
Agents: Congratulations… Congratulations, Amanda… Congratulations.
They all make their way out of Billy’s office leaving Francine and Billy alone.
Francine is all smiles but Billy knows- she’s not happy!
[whoo trying the Amanda technique there Francine?!]
Francine: By the way, I just wanted to let you know how much I appreciate your letting me in on all of this. I mean, I do realize …
Francine: … that after all, I am only a full time agent …
Francine: … and perhaps as a need to know kind of thing …
Billy: Button it.
Billy is all smiles too!
I think Francine has started shopping at the same place Sylvia Sampson bought her jacket!
It’s a kind of justice that Francine didn’t get involved in the cover – not only because she is so snooty to Amanda and well it’s fabulous Amanda is involved and she isn’t (ha!).. If Francine had been a better friend to Lee- and not just given up on him- then maybe she would have become involved in the case the way Amanda did – so basically she deserves it! You be a better friend next time missy!!
The action heads out into the bullpen.. before I get to that – I am keen to hear what you all make of Amanda getting this award! Feel free to share your thoughts.. I’ll say what I think but don’t expect everyone will agree.
I think Amanda is very touched at receiving this acknowledgement. At the same time, I think her enjoyment is a little understated.. why? because it’s Amanda? and she’s modest? Or is it more? Does something else temper this reaction of hers? thoughts anyone??
I’m very happy that Amanda has finally had some kind of acknowledgement after everything she has done through her ‘part time secretarial work’ at the agency [yes.. iwsod being very sarcastic there!]
Better late than never I guess but a certificate from the president for me? Meh!! As Amanda is about to note – she can’t even put it anywhere..
I think Amanda has never done what she does for the recognition. I find the certificate to be a bit of a lame attempt by the agency to keep Amanda onside.. but really the agency gives her very little in return for her work. She has a part time job with changeable hours, is expected to drop everything for her work at the last minute. She wears a flippin Guest Pass [and you know I love that June Phelps has one and Amanda doesn’t!] and.. by all accounts they ask all this and pay Amanda poorly. This is simply no way to treat someone who has done such amazing things. Amanda’s life is in danger all the time- great for her country, but she does it while being IMHO grossly underemployed and underpaid. This far into the show- they still haven’t even given Amanda any training.
For me, that shows just how much the agency really appreciates Amanda-not! A certificate alone just doesn’t cut it for me. Amanda can’t feed her family and look after her future with a flippin certificate. I think this follows on into the next episode but I’ll stop there I promise!
We’ll now join Lee and Amanda in the bullpen. Lee is holding the certificate.
Lee: Amanda, you should be very proud of this.
[Lee is very proud on her behalf – which is lovely! ]
Amanda: Well, I am… [I think Amanda was already proud of the job she does.. but maybe the certificate and Lee’s happiness and pride here took it up one or two notches ]
…I just wish I had a place to hang it.
Lee: Oh, yeah, your mother and the kids.
Amanda: They can never see it.
[Oh my gosh.. Amanda looks absolutely lovely here – the longer hair, the lovely colour on her.. yes even in spite of those darn ear buttons!!! gah!! This light blue cardy seems to be a light blue, fluffy version of the one she has bullet holes in.]
Lee: Well, look, I’ll talk to Billy and maybe we can find some place here in the agency, hunh?
[near where Francine sits would be ideal Lee! 😉 ]
There goes Lee Mr Fixit! He wants Amanda’s work to be acknowledged properly. umm Lee.. your holding her certificate of Valour there and she’s right in front of you- wearing a GUEST PASS!! I know I know.. I can’t let that go!
Amanda: That would be nice.
We see Amanda here as Lee says: Well, you deserve it…
…You did a good job…
[Wow.. I think this recognition from Lee was much more important to Amanda than any certificate from some president!]
We cut back to Lee: Especially faking getting shot.
Amanda is reminded of faking getting shot.. she smiles wordlessly, but hides it by looking down at her cardy which died in the line of duty.. the kooky music kicks in.. it’s time for Amanda to lighten things up between them.. [Interesting Lee was being sincere and honest, and it’s Amanda who chose to lighten things]
She picks up the dead cardy … Cheeky Amanda! you get him!
Amanda: You know…
Amanda: You really came awfully close with that bullet.
Lee: Well, uh, I uh…
I think Amanda’s messing with him.
Lee puts down the certificate. Amanda’s making him nervous
Lee: I had to, you know, uh. Otherwise they would never have bought it.
Amanda: Yeah, I know.
Amanda starts to smile here.
Lee: ha Yeah.
Amanda: Do you think maybe the agency could reimburse me for this sweater? [after all she only gets a part time secretarial wage!]
At this Amanda gives him a smile.. I think Lee can see she’s been teasing him with the ‘awfully close bullet’.
Tee heee.. Lee’s eyes seem to say: You wanna play huh!
Lee: I’ll see what I can do about it.
Lee eyes just light up here..
He takes her hand, and bends to kiss it through the hole in the cardy- he made shooting at her!
And stops to give her a killer wink while he’s at it!
Lee finishes this off with a huge smile.
Lee is really bringing out the big guns here! [pun intended!]
Yup… I think that is enough of a reimbursement right there Amanda.. let’s call it even.. no wait in fact I think you may have been over compensated.. whatever.. you are one lucky woman. ahgaobuabahbakg
In the wide shot we see Amanda thinks this is funny and Lee is being playful.
Amanda: (Smiling back.) Awhhhh. haaa!
And the episode ends there.. awh!!! and whooo hoo!
Amanda is one strong woman.. defending her country, and managing to not swoon when Lee looks at her like that! There is so much in this hand kiss/wink/smile killer moment. Multiple things IMHO are going on here!! Can’t wait to hear what you all thought of this moment!!!
I have six too!
Firstly, here we have it: the first time Lee touches Amanda after the slap – and what a touch it is!!! I think this is hugely significant!! of all the ways to reach out and touch her – he kisses her! From a slap, to a kiss.. And.. wonderfully, Amanda welcomes his touch again Things are back to normal.. no a better normal! Taking Amanda’s hand, Lee seems to be testing the waters here – Does he have permission to touch Amanda? [As Morley put it so beautifully!] Is his touch welcome? The answer seems to be yes!
Secondly, I see this final little playful exchange between the two of them as a way of moving on from the dramas and toward happier, better times.. they enjoy each other’s company and are completely at ease with each other – the trust has been tested and proven.. refined by fire! (ouchie ) – their relationship isn’t just serious trust.. they have fun together too!
Thirdly, taking the hand of a woman and kissing it? very chivalrous, it says: I think you are a lady. I will treat you like a lady. and.. I will behave like a gentleman (okay a cheeky gentleman! 😉 )
Fourthly, I think there is a touch of reverence and gratitude here.. playfully done though – maybe Lee’s way of adding a more personal ‘certificate of valour’
Fifthly, the bullet hole reminds Lee of how hairy things got – and this moment reaffirms he is happy Amanda is alive and in his life.. and he’s glad he’s such a good shot 😉
Aaaaand Sixthly (!) , call me crazy.. but this moment turns into something even more…[the music starts off kooky and ends with the sexy sax ] Something HOT!! This interaction as Lee winks at her?? This is not something that a friend does to another friend – do you agree? Certainly not as a combo! IMHO Lee was flirting with Amanda here!!!! I can’t think that there is a time before this that he has initiated in anyway some kind of interaction of a male/female variety with Amanda- that didn’t involved a cover of some kind.. and which was this hot!! I think this is a first and significant step. Lee is flirts with Amanda here under the guise of a playful thankyou – I think he is wanting to see how Amanda would respond.. I think he wants to flirt with Amanda for just a second here.. For just a moment, there is a crack in that denial of his toward Amanda and he gives in to the fun.. and takes it to a flirty next level for juuuuust one moment Me like!!
BTW- this hand kiss reminds me of Weekend- Lee did a lot of hand kissing in that episode!!! do you think Lee likes hand kissing? or Amanda’s hands? Amanda certainly liked it
I think Lee is well on his way to falling in love with Amanda now – as much as he is currently capable of at least, and that he is slowly starting to realise this – although he hasn’t fully…. I commented on this in comments of post 11. About Lee being set free by Amanda’s faith in him- Free to open himself up now to a marriage. With anyone – with Amanda? I think that niggles away in the back of his mind..but Lee is not ready to jump into a serious relationship- he isn’t able to act on the feelings he is starting to have.. I think!
What do you all think? [I can’t go beyond this till we’ve covered early season 3!] There’s so much to talk about here!!
I think the events of this episode have opened up a whole new world for Lee in his life. Lee has learned some valuable lessons and been shaken to the core by the episode’s events. He was at risk of having a hollow core [ Like in Apocalypse Now] but.. By the end of the episode, Lee seems reassured of who he is, and his relationship with Amanda. He seems no longer at risk of having a hollow core and he’s moving in a much healthier direction in life.
Even in his work. Lee was happy for Amanda to take centre stage and receive all the credit for this case (not ‘his’ case anymore!) – he even joined in with the praise- that right there is pretty awesome in my view! He was genuinely proud of Amanda. Putting Amanda first, before himself. Which is not what he did when he slapped her. Nooooo this Lee has learned the right order of priorities for himself. V Swoony!!!
He has learned the job isn’t everything, and he can’t give all of himself and who he is to this job. Sometimes the job demands too much – and Lee is not superhuman.. he needs Amanda with him to help him come to terms with this in future.. and balance that super confidence he has with a bit more wisdom about the risks he takes and decisions he makes..
The agency will chew you up and spit you out if you let it – Friends like Amanda are what will see you through at the end of the day – they are more precious than rubies..
This episode is hugely important.. I would put it up there with Brunettes are in.. another level of depth in their relationship, another line has been crossed.. a bit of a traumatic episode but worth it in the end!!
What else does Lee learn in this episode? What has Amanda learned??? Anyone like to go for it?? I might leave summing up this episode as a whole to you guys.. I’ve jabbered on long enough!
Oh and.. Here ya go.. just got to include this gif!:
[A celebration as we finish up this fabulous episode!]
Byeee for now!!!! Next up? KC’s Vehicle Patrol posts! whooo hoooo!! Can’t wait to see what goodies KC has found!! Then.. Murder Between Friends! Feel free to share with us your ‘Burn Out’ thoughts!! byeeeee!
I wanted to wait to respond to your questioning about Lee’s alarm when he has to shoot Amanda (even though he knows he has no intention of shooting her for real) because I think it ties into his comments in this last scene. Twice he makes a point of recognizing Amanda for how she faked being shot and I think that may have had to do with his earlier reaction.
I think Lee was worried because he knew there was no time to set this up with her. He has to use a real gun and there isn’t even a chance for them to exchange words of “I’m going to look to the left to see if they’re watching, count to three, and then fire. That’s when you fall.” And Amanda hasn’t even participated in a planned faked death (like 3 Faces Of Emily), let alone having had to improvise. If the timing was wrong at all, they were both going to be killed. Amanda was really thrown into the deep end on this one.
It’s all been said before so I’ll just say: this episode has it all: excitement, angst, romance and humour – all that’s missing is much of a plot (and no tuxes).What a pleasant two hours viewing of a 45 minute episode…
OMG this has got to be a record for responses!!!! There were too many to read them all and I am so far behind everyone getting through each episode. There isn’t anything I could say that hasn’t already been covered…..however, I do want to put my two cents worth in on the “love” thing. I think they are in love at this point but neither of them realize that what they are feeling is love yet….why does it have to be so complicated??? LOL
Rofl! yes epic response to Burn Out!!! how ironic 😉
Thanks for sharing with us your thoughts on them being in love now Gruvy Granny!
I’m really thankful that you mentioned this:
Why so complicated? I say it doesn’t have to be so complicated! 🙂
But! I qualify this with saying: Some of us really enjoy the complications and exploring it. I’m in that category often I think. I am enjoying exploring the nuances.. But that doesn’t mean it is the only way to enjoy SMK. There are many! 😎
And yeah- sometimes I have a laugh at myself and how I think ‘too deeply’ but heck- I’m enjoying it.. so why not?! tee hee.. don’t mind me 😮
I’m glad you said this Gruvy Granny– because it gives me the opportunity to say to everyone reading: Your thoughts on Lee and Amanda and their journey can be as simple or as complicated as you like!!! go for it!!! Simple is welcome.. and complicated is welcome.. We are all wired differently – so it’s great to hear different experiences of the show!
I hope as we continue the walk, that you’d like to share us your ideas on what the characters are up to in light of their being in love now.
Oh and just to let you know- the pace of the blog won’t be this fast from March onwards- my real life commitments will kick back in with full force – so slow and steady I think will be the name of the game.. 🙂 Maybe then you’ll have time to go back and read all those burn out comments.. My goodness! 158 ! Yes that must be a record!!!
Byee for now!!
IWSOD, on a completely side note and thankfully more lighthearted one(I am getting burnt out on burnout) The new picture of Lee you put up is absolutley gorgeous. Swoon!!!!
Tee hee! Isn’t he adorable? Thanks Misty glad you like it!!
yeah I figured after all the intensity and deep exploration of the characters.. we could do with a bit of swoony Lee 🙂 It certainly turns my mind into a blank slate! 🙂
Do you know what episode it’s from? 🙂
Like! no, Love love love love love!! the whole episode, posts, discussions and you all who make this such a great adventure!!! *takes her chocolate and heads back down the bunny hole*
*I’ll share :)*
Pass me that chocolate Jule!!!! Shona’s and Morley’s latest comments are fabulous!
Morley I can’t wait to see what you make of their journey.. you’ve got me curious and hooked now!
Wow. Over 130 comments. I sure am late to the party!!!
You’ve all said so much far more eloquently than me so I will keep it brief (to spare BJo’s phone from buzzing too much ;)).
I see the finger kiss as a reconnection. Rebuilding a bridge between them that was shaken after the slap. Maybe a subtle reminder to Amanda that Lee is gentle and caring after all! sort of putting the rubber stamp on it and moving on from past and also a chance to test those boundaries a little.
Are they in love? I don’t see it personally. Amanda obviously cares for Lee but is she “in” love? Not so sure. The same applies to Lee. I think for both of them it happens so slowly, by degrees it’s not going to be easy to spot.
The wink is cheeky and obviously it’s not the first time he’s winked at Amanda but it feels more intimate, more flirty when he’s doing it while kissing her finger. Is there anything behind it? Maybe, maybe not. But oh my word how she doesn’t keel over is beyond my comprehension…….
Drat! Three buzzes in the last 10 minutes. I think I need to figure out how to make my phone play a few bars from the SMK theme song instead. Or better yet, maybe I can capture Lee saying “Amanda” from BO in the apology scene. Then I’ll come running!
Oops, meant to add thank you for considering me and my phone, Jenbo!
Hey Jenbo! lovely to hear your thoughts! 🙂
I agree.. when I realised this hand kiss was the first time Lee touches Amanda after the slap – I was thrilled to bits by this new discovery – so meaningful and poetic!! – tee heeee.. it’s a ‘nice touch’ [pun intended!]
I agree.. the combo of the smile/kiss/wink actions tipped it into flirty territory for me..
Yeah! what does all this mean for the two of them?? we’ve got to keep forging on and we’ll see! 🙂
Bloody hell you lot! 44 new emails from JWWM on me smart phone. Okay, you asked for it, I’m going to throw my 2 cents worth in, even though I’m a total failure at relationships in real life… but this isn’t about real life, this is SMK!
In the last 3 years of re-discovering SMK I have drilled down the two moments when I see Amanda and Lee realise (i.e. consciously admit to themselves) that one loves the other in a way that has moved beyond mere friendship (even best friendship). For Amanda, this happens in Burn Out. For Lee, it comes later.
Anyway, I think Amanda has long since realised she loves Lee as a friend but over recent episodes that feeling has intensified to the point where in this episode when he looks into her eyes and apologises so very sincerely for what he “did” and “said”, I think she realises at that precise moment that she does love Lee as more than just a friend. It’s a pretty intense feeling, she has to look away. She also looks away because she thinks (at this point) a romance between her and Lee just will never happen and she simply can’t afford to cultivate or dwell on the love she feels for him, both for her own emotional well-being but also to avoid any threat to their close friendship if she allows him to see she feels more than just friendship. I think she is afraid she might scare him away if she gives him a hint that she is feeling more than just friendship. He is her best friend and she would rather maintain the friendship than jeopardise it by giving him a glimpse of her deeper feelings.
Amanda is every bit as good at Lee as guarding who she really is from the world (more about that later in my comment). At this point she thinks she is not “Lee’s type” and, no matter that she now knows Lee Stetson is at heart a really decent man with many excellent qualities that she admires and loves, she can’t see right now that he will ever get to a stage where would be happy being a stable life-long partner for her and father for her children. The latter – a good father for her children – is critical to her as well. She won’t settle for less than quality and absolute commitment when it comes to her kids, even if it means she remains alone.
I too believe the parade of bimbos* has stopped, although that wouldn’t be apparent to Amanda or maybe even Lee yet. After Randi I think there is no one else until Lesley (and I have a theory about why he suddenly felt the need to date Lesley that I will share when we get to that episode). At this point, even though he hasn’t made any conscious decision to stop dating, I think Lee doesn’t see anyone else until Lesley.
*Re the “bimbos” – To be fair to Lee, I think the calibre of the women he has dated in the past has not been rock bottom. Yes, like him, they aren’t into commitment but that’s no sin. I tend to think they would be professionals, society ladies, heiresses, politician’s daughters, and the like. (Perhaps a few from the Steno pool or fellow female agents in his earlier days in the Agency but dating within the organisation has its own perils too.) It occurred to me also he would do some serious prior research on any woman he saw socially – a spy has to be careful about knowing whose company they are keeping.
The reason Amanda’s journey is harder to track is because she is so very good at protecting herself. She can Amandaramble up a storm but for someone who talks so much she gives away very little about herself as a person and what she is really thinking. I think her failed marriage to Joe haunts her – she knows she did the right thing in not traipsing her family off to Africa, but I think she feels somehow the failure was more hers than his that the marriage didn’t work out. Maybe she thinks along the lines, if I had been a better wife or done things differently he might have been more inclined to stay in the US. Anyway, that’s a whole other discussion. Suffice to say, Amanda is expert at protecting herself, but because she is always so bubbly, outgoing, helpful, forgiving, generous with her time and energy, and is good at empathising with others, no one really notices that she is actually giving away very little about herself.
I guarantee you she learned a lot more about the real Lee Stetson in the first six months of their acquaintance than he learned about the real Amanda King. Even in the first episode she drew out the info about Lee’s recently killed partner and realised how this had deeply affected him. I bet Pfaff didn’t get that out of him if they had any psych sessions after that event! However, over time Amanda does open herself more to Lee than she has to anyone else. I think this has been discussed extensively in previous episode posts so I won’t comment further here.
Essentially Amanda knows she’s in love now, but at this point she thinks it is futile to contemplate a romantic relationship with Lee because she thinks (wrongly) she can’t be what he needs and it is very unlikely he will ever want to settle down into “normal” life, i.e. long-term commitment (marriage), kids and mother-in-law. She’s a strong, sensible woman, and she backs herself to be strong enough to control her feelings and be happy and content with the beautiful friendship she has with this man.
I hope this all made sense. I know I’ve probably repeated some of what others have said and I’m really no good at analysing the relationship stuff. But that’s where I think things are at right now. I’m always open to other’s ideas and I think the discussion around coming episodes might clarify the situation more.
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I like all of this, Shona. I think you may have expressed better than I was what I had been trying to say. I think consciously Amanda probably always guarded herself even better than Lee. She was always aware she could feel something for him so she kept herself guarded, where as Lee like so many men didn’t have a clue. I had been so focused on the fact that Lee really started to fall in love IMO during this episode but didn’t realized it, it actually never occurred to me that after all that time of guarding her feelings this episode might be the first time Amanda really realized she did love Lee. Makes perfect sense. I am sure Lee was not the only on so shaken by almost losing what he and Amanda had. I can totally see that after what they went through in this episode that it would be where Lee starts to fall in love but doesn’t realize it, and where Amanda starts to realize it is love. It would also explain some of my thoughts going into season 3 as to why I thought Amanda was already in love. I also totally agree with you that not only would Amanda not risk her own heart or the well being of her family, she would not have risked her friendship with Lee by scaring him off. I always thought that was why even after things did start to shift between them and it was obvious Lee was coming around, Amanda never pushed the issue. she waited until Lee was ready to come to her. I can’t comment on everything you said but it was all beautifully put and makes perfect sense to me.
Shona, I really like how you described Amanda here. It is so true that someone, especially a woman can hide herself behind her care for others. Not sure if I think Burn Out was the moment that Amanda knew she was in love with Lee, I don’t really know when that was, like you said as we get further along it might become more clear. Both Lee and Amanda are so busy trying not to fall in love that it is hard to know exactly when they did. I think they may only recognize it in retrospect them selves. But I kind of like that. It is fun for us to analyze their journey, but I am glad they didn’t spend as much time analyzing as we do. That is kind of why it is so enjoyable to watch, huh?
Like! *presses button futilely*
Beautifully put, Shona!
Very nice, Shona. Amanda overcompensates. Good explanation for how we know so much and yet so little.
“Bloody hell you lot!” Hahah! I get it, overwhelming bunch here! But what you said is exactly what I have been trying to say in my clumsy way. I relate to Amanda’s hidden interior emotional world and that she was in love by this time but knew enough to leave it hidden. Whether this was a subconscious or more overt decision, I am not sure but I lean subconscious. Beautifully put Shona! And here is where I see Lee falling but unaware, like Misty so nicely stated. And you know Shona, I discovered the hard way, that you are only “a failure” at relationships till you’re not. Those “failures” are really building blocks. Otherwise, why are we all discussing the Lee/Amanda relationship? Partly the romance of it all, a bit of lust (ok, a lot!) and as a way to understand ourselves and own motivations. I do love children’s books and their authors because they often say things I can’t. R Dahl said, “And above all, watch with glittering eyes the whole world around you because the greatest secrets are always hidden in the most unlikely places. Those who don’t believe in magic will never find it.” Oh dear, another Julebabble. Must find more coffee…..
Hi Everyone! This has all been a really interesting discussion! I’m really enjoying exploring this.. even if we don’t necessarily agree.
I agree with you though in that I am trying to keep an open mind. I’m trying not to think ahead in the story – which means as the story progresses my views or our may change and that’s okay! 🙂
I’ll quote Misty a couple of times to explore these ideas further.. hope that’s okay.. but this is not directed at just Misty though, it is for everyone 🙂
The place of thoughts/ emotions and how they decide our actions- what is in the driver’s seat – is definitely going to influence how we see Amanda’s character at this stage.
For me, ‘in Love’ is a point of no return.. I don’t see Amanda as being there yet. So when you say Misty that Amanda hasn’t fallen completely in love yet – I agree with you. Maybe we are not so far apart in our thinking?
Misty wrote: “People are always talking about how Amanda accepts Lee so completely so why is it such a stretch that if she accepts him just the way he is she could fall in love with him just the way he is? That being said I don’t think Amanda would embrace those feeling or allow them to flourish until Lee shows her he is serious about her and wouldn’t break her heart. I don’t think Amanda falls completely in love yet(far from it) but I think the see was planted before now. “
LOL. I can only speak for myself here – but I do think Amanda accepts Lee completely and I don’t think it’s a stretch that she could fall in love with him the way he is. – not who he is as a person. But fall in love and accept into her life with how he treats women as casual flings?
There is a difference between accepting someone, and accepting that behaviour into your life. Amanda accepts playboy Lee and doesn’t try to change it. But, she doesn’t accept this kind of relationship into her life. It’s fine for Lee, that’s his choice, but it is not fine for Amanda and that is her choice. Your comment here about Amanda not allowing the feelings to flourish Misty sounds a lot like what I’ve been saying. That all sounds good to me. 🙂 Maybe the difference between us is that what you would define as ‘love that has flourished ‘– I would define as Amanda ‘in love’. Whereas I think you are saying Amanda is ‘in love’ but doesn’t let it flourish?? LOL! 🙂 we are labelling it differently maybe?
Yeah Misty I agree with you – watching the show at first I thought Amanda was in love with Lee the whole time..I was watching it as a young girl.. and I wasn’t paying that much attention to Amanda and her journey – I was much more focused on Lee and his journey. I think Amanda’s journey is much more nuanced and not as easy to discern, and appeals to me now I am older…[and maybe dumber! 😉 ]
If someone thinks feelings of love are something which cannot be controlled, they happen or they don’t, or you can’t guard yourself from falling in love etc. Then my view of Amanda is probably going to sound strange. don’t mind me 🙂 but obviously, based on what I have thought about Amanda’s character – I think it is possible for an emotionally healthy person to deal with their feelings for someone they know is not an option for them. To diligently guard their thoughts so as to not develop further inappropriate feelings for them. I think it takes great wisdom, diligence and emotional intelligence.. and Amanda has that in spades.
Heading over to Lee’s apartment and telling him the champagne he bought for Randi was a bargain would certainly make it much easier for Amanda to keep it clear in her mind that Lee is not the guy for her romantically. Not with the way he is with women now! 😉
I’m not going to try and convince anyone of how I think thoughts and emotions are intertwined here.. and I don’t think our emotions are completely controllable nor that we should disregard them. but I do think with a careful thought life, Amanda could channel her feelings for Lee into a healthy form – a loving friendship, and look for a long term relationship with someone else.
Has anyone the opinion that Amanda has zero love for Lee at this point [The End of Burn Out]? I think we are all agreed that she feels love for him aren’t we?? it’s the quality and quantity that is an area of grey no?? or how we label it..
Was it Morley that said it wouldn’t take much for Amanda to turn those feelings into romantic love? I can’t flippin find the comment now grrr and I’ve looked and looked – but I loved that!!! Sorry whoever wrote it!! Was it Morley?
Misty wrote: “Yeah, I get what everyone is saying about all the reasons Amanda would not have fallen in love, but to me that is the same as saying Lee wouldn’t fall in love with Amanda for all the very valid reasons he had. He did anyway.”
-I get what you are saying here Misty- I think 🙂 . Before it was feasible Lee fell in love with Amanda, and now we are saying Amanda didn’t fall in love with Lee till it was feasible?
Well.. that’s not quite it 🙂 because Lee’s story and Amanda’s story are different. Very different.
Lee knew from the start that Amanda was a woman who isn’t into flings, she has two kids and a casual relationship with her is not on the cards because this is not who she is. In this, Lee and Amanda were incompatible.
However! I think from the wedding in Ship of Spies, and with the growing closeness of his partnership with Amanda – Lee begins to learn about what Love is and that it is actually something his heart has been quietly yearning for all his life (poor Lee!). Amanda knows well what love is. Lee doesn’t.
This is all just my ideas.. I’m not an expert or anything..
For me, Lee has some things he has to learn before he is ready for a relationship. From ship of spies onwards – Lee very slowly begins to change.. he begins to question whether he wants to be a husband, whether he could one day get married – he had been assuming this was not what he wanted..but he is slowly being changed 🙂 [walls coming down, his frozen heart beginning to warm, the sleeping dragon awakening- take your pick! 😉 ] So Lee’s journey has him slowly progressing to where Amanda is already at [valuing family, love and marriage] while his feelings for Amanda grow.
Lee is the one who is changing, so as he learns he is changing, a relationship becomes feasible for him.
However, Amanda doesn’t (at least in Burn Out) have any realisation yet of how Lee is changing. So, Lee changes his view on marriage and relationships and begins to fall in love [with Amanda – but he doesn’t have a clue about this right now in Burn Out].
Amanda doesn’t know Lee is changing his view on marriage and relationships so she guards against falling in love and keeps a special place in her heart for her dear friend Lee with no expectation of a future relationship.
They are each on a different journey.
I think that’s as best as my little brain can describe it at present.. my head hurts.. might go stare at that gif of Lee the hand kissing /winking bandit a bit!
I can’t say it enough! all this discussion and exploring these characters is wonderful!
Anyway, I won’t go on and on anymore – I don’t have all the answers, and don’t have Amanda’s story all figured out.. I’m just seeing this as where they are now 🙂 but open to the story that is ahead of us!!! and can’t wait!!!
Byeee for now!
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And now I am hunting feverishly for that ‘like’ button!!!
Oh my goodness! So many comments today! I’ve been out and about and very busy today but I think my phone buzzed every 5 to 10 minutes notifying me of a new comment on the blog! It was fun to follow everything but I kept wishing I had time to respond as everything was coming in.
I just love that everyone jumps on board and shares their opinions – there is so much to discuss. And I love that we can all discuss it freely even if we don’t always agree. That’s not the point after all, now is it? I love reading other’s points of view because they so often make me think about something new that I’d never considered. It’s like getting new eyes. I tend to agree the most with what iwsod’s said here recently today, but I also love what Misty wrote because it gave me some new eyes to look at things with. I’m not swayed in my opinion and I’m not looking to sway anyone in their opinion, but I appreciate the different points of view.
I agree with Misty and iwsod about Amanda being in love from the beginning when I first watched the show as a teenage girl. But I ONLY had eyes and ears for Lee so I didn’t pretty much pay attention to Amanda. Plus I’m pretty sure I was incapable of really getting Amanda when I was just a teenager. Who made the comment that good women have been falling for the bad boy for years – or something to that effect? Anyway, that would have been me as a teen! For Lee, you bet. For me now as an adult, I could be like Amanda and put Lee in the Gosh, he’s gorgeous and I love him as a friend for who he is and won’t try to change him, but he is not the type of man I want to marry nor have help me raise my sons.
To some degree, I think we are all saying the same thing or something very similar on several of these points. But it’s also okay if we’re not. It’s as if we are all arriving at Trafalgar Square from our own little corner of the world but by different routes and modes of transportation. And when we get there, we’re not all standing in the same spot of the square. But we’re all at the square. Some of us are standing right next to each other and some of us are waving to each other across the way. But we are all present and accounted for and admiring whatever there is to admire at the square. Whatever we see is framed by our personal journey and by what we hold important. It is different for each and every one of us.
I’ll end here and go respond to individual comments – I wish I had time for all of them!
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Trafalgar Square! he he, my feet hurt… its the new shoes, I am sure.
Mmmm I want to be in the part of Trafalgar square where ‘Bob’ is 😉 me like Bob!
But I bet you look awful pretty in your new outfit cuz TWA lost your luggage 😉
And Lee helped me pick it out??? 😉
******Buzzz BJo’s phone!!!! ******** 😉
Damn it! I’m typing away frantically and I hear my phone in the kitchen buzzing!!!
just turn the phone off and keep typing. You just brought up A Class Act! Wow!
More buzzing…this time from Morley! I can’t turn off my phone though…cuz if someone comments on comment 14 out of 100 I’ll missit!
“I agree with Misty and iwsod about Amanda being in love from the beginning when I first watched the show as a teenage girl. But I ONLY had eyes and ears for Lee so I didn’t pretty much pay attention to Amanda. Plus I’m pretty sure I was incapable of really getting Amanda when I was just a teenager.” That pretty much sums it up for me. I really, really identified with Laura Holt from Remington Steele in my teen years, and while very happy the romantic relationship between Lee and Amanda was developing, I truly didn’t get what Amanda was bringing to the table.
Oh dear, now my brain hurts! So many ideas and excellent thought processes going on, I can’t keep up! I just love the discussion and analysis of Amanda because she is harder to read. And since we filter her experience though our own past and emotions we each see slightly different things. But it’s all so deliciously full of goodness! Brain feels bent, must get some sleep…….
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Hi Everyone! Seems we have a really interesting discussion underway about whether Amanda was/ or how much Amanda was ‘in love’ with Lee at this point of the show. Love it!!
Ahhh Morley no I didn’t write a post about Love – would you like to? There is a post about Lee and Amanda’s love story where I have been updating with links to different posts where their love story has been front and centre or stimulated lots of discussion. But- I would love it if someone did a blog post on Love! Now in the journey would be a perfect time to create one!!! Anyone??? If someone writes it I can put pics in and publish it no prob!
I prefer to keep on focusing on the episodes..
Oh no Morley don’t apologise for the tupperware analogy! I like it!! Did you see I used it? The analogy I mean.. not the Tupperware 😉
Absolutely agree – how we view and define flirting and love will very much influence what we are seeing at this point with the characters. Also, some of how we see things differently is a matter of degrees – not whether or not there is love, but how much.. and of what quality.. so I am not surprised there are differences here. Maybe our views will converge when their relationship becomes clearer Misty – it is only natural we’ll see the journey differently.
We are at a very interesting point in Lee and Amanda’s relationship!
Jule wrote: “I am in the Amanda is in love with Lee but protects herself camp. I change as to when I think she fell in love, like you Misty, but always felt sure she was in deep by this time.”
Fair enough! 🙂 For me, If Amanda was deeply, romantically in love with Lee at this point, I’d see more evidence of her protecting her heart. But I’m not seeing it. I’m not trying to convince you Jule and Misty.. so don’t mind me 🙂 I’m in the Amanda could easily fall in love with Lee but protects herself from doing so camp – a slight difference..
If we look back on this story as a whole- it can be argued they were on the path toward love right from the very first episode. I’ve said that myself a few times.. but I am focused on following the progress of the characters an episode at a time. Not at the overall picture. I am doing this so I can look deeper – If I looked forward all the time, I don’t think I would be exploring or coming to understand their current situation as closely. I would be more inclined to say – well it was always love wasn’t it and if I do that – I miss out on understanding the characters better, the different phases they each go through to get to that point.
This is how it would have been when it was first aired – we wouldn’t have known what was ahead for Lee and Amanda. I didn’t get to watch the show when it first aired. So I watched it looking at it as a whole, which encouraged me to skip over the finer details of the journey – I think when I did that, I missed out on a lot of the wonderful story that is being told.
So for now, my views are based on what has happened to the characters up to this point and I’ll do my best to not go beyond the story that has been told so far – though I know I won’t be able to do this perfectly- I’ll give it a go!
Oh thanks Melissa R for sharing that you are seeing Amanda as being in the same place I see her. I agree Love is a very hard concept to get our heads around!
Amanda’s finger extended through the sweater was an invitation? I like it!!! Was that Misty who suggested that? Sounds great!
I agree happy camper – loved Misty’s line about there being an end to the ‘bimbo brigade’ from here on out. – too funny!
However, taking this an episode at a time, the characters don’t know this yet. Just sayin… 😉
Morley fastidious is a fabulous word to describe how Amanda maintains her friendship/ professional direction – Glad you are with me for this journey – I’m really enjoying your slant on things.. as I do with everyone – we all bring such different great things to these discussions! So glad you are all on the journey!
Haa yes Morley.. slow is best.. the pace of the blog is a lovely metaphor for Lee and Amanda’s relationship isn’t it.. we want to speed it up – but being slow is what makes it so good!!! I guess what Amanda said of Love is true of a show you love too! ‘ When you’re talking about Love you have to be patient’ 🙂 I’ll try to talk of love patiently!
Oh yes sorry I mean’t to say but got distracted – the bullet hole was completely unrealistic.. Lee could have taken Amanda’s arm off.. ridiculous! I gave that one a big hand wave!
Jestress I didn’t even notice you wrote ‘Martial’ ! Love is a battlefield alright! haaaa good one!!
The ‘Mrs’ just plain stinks!!!! Makes me so mad..
Yeah Cindy I’m looking forward to exploring Amanda’s character in light of the events in Burn Out, and especially this professional recognition that she has received in the tag!
Looking back at previous episodes to date- think of how Amanda has been treated as a professional by people at the agency. Anyone think of examples?
I am not surprised that she is modest, and a little reticent in accepting this accolade.
I haven’t done an exhaustive look back – maybe we can do it together??
The vibe I get is that anytime Amanda has shown some confidence she has been pretty much shot down by Francine, and in season one and early season 2 Lee was minimising what she contributes. All that stuff about our case/ my case that Lee kept reminding Amanda of? Ouch!!!
A couple of moments spring to mind-
In Sudden Death- https://justwalkwithme.com/2012/01/30/13-season-one-episode-9-sudden-death/
Billy: hang around the camp, let Lee slip you any of the information he has and report back to us
Amanda: like an undercover operative!!
Francine: like a messenger.
Amanda: Excuse me 😦
Amanda is shot down in flames very quickly here.. don’t get too confident Amanda! Hmmm…
And later in the episode we have this little exchange:
Amanda: OK! after all what do I know I’m just an assistant agent.
Lee: Apprentice Agent!
Amanda: purist! 😦
Another moment that comes to mind is Lee’s throw away comment about Amanda being window dressing in Affair at Bromfield Hall.. ouchie..
Any moments you can think of ?? there have been many..
The big episode Brunettes had Amanda for once standing up for what she contributes –Remember the scene in the hallway? https://justwalkwithme.com/2012/10/22/4-season-two-episode-6-brunettes-are-in-scarecrow-and-mrs-king/
Amanda says: Well, you have more experience in certain areas and I have more experience in-
Lee cuts off Amanda: -I’m talking about being an agent!!
This whole exchange is pretty demoralising for Amanda. Where Lee angrily tells Amanda she should never have taken the assignment? Ouch.. Lee shot her down because he was going through his own issues..
Anyway, by the end of the Brunettes episode Lee has accepted her as his partner, though IMHO based on his actions in episodes following this acceptance of Amanda as his partner, Lee seems to view Amanda as the lesser partner 😉
Don’t get me wrong – I think Lee has improved greatly in seeing what Amanda contributes in the last four or five episodes –and we have Life of the Party and Amanda’s accomplishments in that too.. I just think that when Amanda’s confidence was squashed repeatedly for a season and a half, it’s going to take time for her to grow in her confidence. I can understand why she would be hesitant and half expecting Francine to come along and take her down a peg or two -so I hesitate to put this down to a lack of self esteem or something.. I think she knows she can do it- but.. she isn’t suppose to convey that to anyone me thinks.. quiet confidence is most rewarded maybe..
I find this an interesting aspect of the story…am looking forward to seeing where this all leads! what do you all think?
Interesting to look back on all this because I’m seeing Lee as realising Amanda is professionally more his equal than he realised in Burn Out.
Iwsod, I love this last part of your comments, about Amanda and her confidence at the Agency. It brought to mind a few things. There is something significant about the way she looks in Francine’s direction as the little ceremony in Billy’s office comes to a close. Of course the “button it” comment from Billy to Francine fits nicely into this. Maybe someone could do a Francine and Amanda post later on (oh somewhere in the middle of season 3 might be good 🙂 ).
I want to add to Amanda’s confidence issues something that I am not able to separate from her character. I think added to all the opposition from people at the Agency ( I think you could call it that, she really is an odd sort for spy work, at least she would not be a typical candidate for recruitment) we could add her reaction to her marriage to Joe ending in divorce. She values marriage so highly so even the cause of their divorce, her husband didn’t leave her because of another woman or “irreconcilable differences” (well, I guess it be called that) he left her to help people in Africa and she felt that raising their children in a stable home environment was equally important, I really see that as a confidence shaker for a woman as compassionate and marriage and family oriented as Amanda. She has her own baggage and is pursuing this line of work (and caring for this man as well) despite it. I think she is very strong and brave!
yeah I always tend to undervalue the impact of her divorce! 😉
I’m thinking by mid season 2 she has professionally grown in confidence.. regardless of what anyone at the agency is saying – maybe around the ALSALS wardrobe overhaul, the haircut.. etc. was for me when I felt she’d accepted she could do this and be good at it. I don’t see her doubting herself there anymore – whereas earlier I do.. I hadn’t really stopped to think about that so glad you raised it Morley!
A Francine Amanda post would be outstanding anytime!!! 🙂
Yep, an Amanda/Francine post needs to get added to the list of posts that should be written! Of course a post or two on just plain Francine would be great too! She gets better with age. IMHO.
I think it is in the nature of the business that newbies have to be given a hard time to see if they have the mental and emotional toughness to really handle the job. I don’t get so annoyed at Lee and Francine’s seeming disregard or insulting attitude towards Amanda during season 1 and the first part of season 2. I think Billy holds back on coming to her defence or silencing Lee and Francine most of the time because he knows it’s important to see how she handles the impact of their attitude and comments. In the reality of the espionage and national security business (if we can imagine SMK as a reality situation for a moment), there is no place for people who get easily offended or cry or give up because someone’s giving them a hard time. Toughen up, because if you fall into KGB hands or find yourself in a life or national security threatening situation, you have to have the mental and emotional toughness to focus all your energy on surviving, saving your buddy, escaping, resolving the situation favourably, and so on. Getting upset because you feel you’re not being fairly treated, insulted, put upon, not valued, and so on, is not an option.
In my line of work I have to put up with plenty of unfair situations and sometimes quite robust competition from my colleagues. I’ve got to have the mental toughness to take in what needs to be taken in, ignore the crap that deserves to be ignored, and work through tough situations without getting emotional or losing an objective perspective. My first year or two in the job was tough and, yeah, colleagues said or did plenty of unfair things, but in the end you either mentally toughen up or you leave because you don’t have “the right stuff”. I toughened up – which isn’t to say you become hard or cynical or unemotional, you just learn how to cope and make the negativity/toughness work for you instead of against you – and in doing so you get the respect of your colleagues.
I think Billy sees first that Amanda potentially has “the right stuff”. But like all of them, she had to be tested. She came closest to cracking in Brunettes, but then her mental/emotional toughness kicked in, and in standing up to Lee and saying, hey, I’m good at my job and what I contribute does have value, she made him appreciate that she did have “the right stuff” and deserved to be called “partner”.
It’s a tough old world out there guys. As one of my colleagues is fond of saying, “Life’s a s*** sandwich and it’s always lunchtime.”
Great insights Shona!
Yeah it would have been weird if Lee and Francine had been cheering Amanda’s entry as an untrained housewife onto the spy scene 😉 even if I did bristle at their remarks on Amanda’s behalf 😉
All makes sense. In brunettes, I think I felt Lee knew Amanda well enough by then that his criticism was unfair and hurtful.. Early on, it was just him being a block head really.. haaaa
With the tough environment and Amanda’s personality it makes sense to me that she would be careful not to really show her growing confidence at the agency- even after receiving a presidential certificate. Modesty and a quiet confidence so far seems to get her through..
It makes sense it would be a sink or swim environment when starting out in the spy biz. Though Amanda’s entry seems to be different to others – there is something said about that in a later season so I’ll keep an eye out for that – but I agree you’ve gotta toughen up and can’t be babied..Lee helps Amanda with that I think- sometimes as a friend getting along side her. which is nice (I vaguely remember noting that in spiderweb) but I also think Amanda did some amazing things that were never acknowledged, and she should have had some flippin training by now.. I’ve had enough of the Amanda isn’t a real agent stuff – she’s earned her stripes.. time to stop calling her a part time secretarial employee 😉
Oh my gosh.. you are a legend Shona..your job sounds tough!
Okay.. signing off bye everyone!
LOL! great quote. Shouldn’t read and drink coffee, hazardous to my health 😉 Excellent point about being new in a profession, Shona.
Thanks for your comments Jule. I constantly remind myself to curb my natural earthy Kiwi humour. It is everyday talk for us but I need to remind myself to tone it down for JWWM. Love your pic on Nedlinger’s Where We Live Board.
Actually, I swear like a sailor in real life *grins* And all the NZ pix make me want to go back and visit now!
Why thank you Shona and Jule for restricting yourself and respecting the blog’s PG status! 😉 The agency thanks you for your sacrifice! tee hee
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!}€!$#*$&##!!!! You’re welcome 🙂
No problem, it is a good exercise in disciplining my wayward vocabulary. I am trying to curtail my potty mouth but frequent relapses persist.
The episode that jumps out to me as far as Amanda being treated as a professional is A Class Act. Ouch! I know that is not a favorite of many here. I don’t mind it as much, but it is not one of my favorites. Iwsod, do I have to quote the text here? I watched it recently and I just know that Francine was pretty unkind toward Amanda while at Station 1 and just plain nasty about her behind her back – not unusual. Lee was not thrilled AT ALL about having to go to Station 1 with Amanda – he tells Billy, “Billy, Billy…please tell me you’re not sending me to Station 1 with – “ and then it cuts to Dotty saying Amanda to finish the thought. When Lee delivers her letter about it disguised as a mailman (woo hoo Jenbo!) she is soo over the top excited that she doesn’t even pick up on how un-excited Lee is about the whole thing. He’s really not being very nice about it but she doesn’t notice one bit. I’m sure there is much more from that episode, after all it’s about Amanda advancing as a professional but she gets kicked out of training and isn’t even allowed to finish it after the baddies are caught.
I completely agree, iwsod, Lee most assuredly IMHO sees Amanda as the lesser partner. In fact I think this is true up through the beginning of S4. I won’t say more about that though.
I do think Amanda is well aware that she is not a trained agent. I think her confidence comes from her knowledge of everyday, “normal” life that the folks at the Agency either never experienced or have forgotten because they are so into their life as intelligence operatives. She has been able to help Lee solve cases or flat out save his life with her unique viewpoint and skills as a “real” person (Lee ROTP) that she continues to think that she can be of value to him. However, she does not shoot a gun, can’t even say the word affair so how is it that she’s supposed to be an effective agent like Lee or Francine? I don’t know that she would even want at this point. Emily Farnsworth seems to be a good role model for Amanda vs. anyone we see at the Agency. I wonder why Lee can’t see that or that the writers never used that in the show somehow. I wish we had seen more of Emily in S3 and 4.
It is so wonderful and fascinating to read all these posts on the burgeoning relationship between Lee and Amanda. That is what makes this blog so great and that is what made the show so great. We were all so fascinated by how it all happened. And I think us trying to figure out just when and how is parallel to our own discovery of when and how we fell for this show. We all felt those same sparks and changes as the show went on. We felt that immediate swoony-ness about Lee, but balked at his earlier behavior. We feel for Amanda and all she has gone through. We cringe or feel embarrassed for her in awkward situations. And we are cheering and anxiously anticipating all the goodness to come.
I love so much of what has been said about what’s going on with them. Lee has felt a pull towards Amanda from the beginning and we have talked about what emotional issues he has had to deal with. At this point that pull has gotten stronger for him, but he does not yet recognize it and would not be able to give voice to it. We tend to always see Lee’s transitions more clearly and Amanda continues to be a bit of a conundrum. Maybe it’s because Lee has bigger leaps to make.
How each of us views flirting and even love has a bearing on what we see and how we see it with these two. Billy’s views and expectations about Lee and Amanda enable him to see what’s going on when others around them seem to turn a blind eye and a deaf ear, at least for a while anyway. It was mentioned that what Amanda did for Lee is beyond what a friend would do. However, I have friends that I would move heaven and earth for and they would definitely do the same for me.
There is an extremely strong friendship that has developed between these two. It has grown personally and professionally and continues to grow in leaps and bounds. They know each other, they understand each other, they accept each other, they support one another. We know that Lee had emotional walls that he had constructed. At some point Amanda tore down those walls and I think that what has been going on is some great foundation building for what is yet to come.
Beautifully put Valerie! I hope you’re staying nice and warm, and dry too!
It’s such a pleasure reading everybody’s comments, reflecting on them and then reevaluating it all. So much is filtered through our own experiences and that’s what makes this such a joy, because we all bring something different to the table. Cheers!
Thanks, Jule. I finally went outside today (other than when I check the mail). It was rather cold, but not as cold as it has been. I just went out to clean off the car and try start it. It hadn’t been started in three or four days. After about 20 minutes my gloved hands were toast. It will interesting when we finally go back to school tomorrow.
Beautifully put, Valerie – love what you said here! Why do you think we see Lee’s transitions more clearly? I think He is more obvious with his faces, his reactions and actions toward her. Amanda is more guarded to me. Plus we know much more about Lee’s backstory than we do Amanda’s so we know what he’s missing and how perfectly Amanda fills that need he doesn’t even know he has. With Amanda I think we are left to guess or interpret on our own more.
Goodie, goodie we’re at the tag! Except that means no more Travis 😦 Oh well, life goes on.
Hmmm, what do I think of Amanda’s line of not deserving her award? Part of me agrees with her and the other part of me just doesn’t care because I just want to get to the good part! I don’t see why she gets an award this time and not any of the other times. Is it because she did it without Lee specifically telling her what to do? That plus if Amanda gets an award for this, what does a fully trained full-time agent have to do to get one? Lead the ATAC Team to capture terrorists?
Errr, iwsod, the poison gas was supposed to destroy Arlington. Yep, Arlington. Where Dotty was calling from. In Arlington. LOL – remember? 😉
I agree with you in that Amanda is not in this for the recognition. And that’s a good thing because she doesn’t ever really get any as you say. A certificate from the President? So what? I bet half the adults in my country around my age have one or even several – the President’s Physical Fitness Award for elementary school children. It’s stamped, not signed, but big whoop. Unfortunately, people in the US (or world perhaps) are not valued necessarily for what they do every day. They are paid and rewarded for the amount of training/schooling/experience they have. Corporate America is like that too. If anyone can do what Amanda does, then what she does simply isn’t worth much in the eyes of the gov’t or the CEO. We are the only ones who seem to be able to see that Amanda IS the only one who can do what she does. But she has no training or status so she gets rewarded poorly.
It is justice that Francine is not included in Lee’s undercover operation. I love that Amanda figured it out but Francine couldn’t. I also think it is fitting that Francine would more readily believe Lee was a burnout and Amanda wouldn’t. Francine is jaded herself.
Ohhhh, lovely screen caps, iwsod! Lee is lookin’ migh-ty fine! You know, I’m trying to remember what I thought when I first saw this tag. But I can’t! Aye! Probably cuz my eyes had popped out of my head and my heart was thumping too loudly in my chest to hear any thoughts I might have had. Oh gosh, is his voice just a little sexy sounding there when he says, “I’ll see what I can do about it.” I’ve got some things that need some doing about them too, Lee. Ahem. And Amanda’s, “That would be nice” line reminds me of another time she says that line. (Oh this walk is just going to get gooder and gooder!) You know, there is something in the way Amanda says that line here I’m just not sure what. I think the emotional toll of this episode and the recognition are catching up with her here and she is just letting herself take in all of Lee here. There is no giving of Amanda to Lee here, maybe that’s part of it too. He really is being very nice and is very happy for and proud of her. I think she is enjoying that – she is seeing a different sort of Lee here than she usually sees at work. It is a nice change of pace.
Love your #1, iwsod. I think it is significant that his first touch is a kiss. He has a lot to make up for! And Amanda seems more than happy to be letting Lee touch her and kiss her finger. Kudos to whoever it was that first realized there was no more touching after that slap! Makes this moment even more significant! I’m sorry but I forget who it was.
Not sure I’m fully on board with #6 . What you say is interesting to consider though. Not sure about the music – it all sort of sounds kooky to me – even the sax part. I think it’s the same kooky music we hear while Amanda is walking down the road trying to flag down a ride. Lee does seem to be being very playful with Amanda here, but I’m not sure that I’d call it flirting – at least not intentionally. I think he is also affected by the emotional toll of this episode and is looking for a way to restore their friendship and let her know he really does care about her. Knowing how Lee is, when Amanda puts her finger out there like that, I don’t see Lee reacting any other way other than to kiss it. It’s almost as if Amanda is asking for it. It’s funny that this tag seems very personal and private yet they are in the office with people behind them. No on in the background seems to be paying any attention to the two of them, but I wonder if anyone (Billy, Francine, Marilyn? ) sees them. I find it odd that Lee would kiss her, even if it is her finger, in this setting.
Things have definitely changed for the two of them after this episode. I think they are much closer as a result. Amanda has leap frogged over Francine in Lee’s eyes as far as closeness I think. I like what you say here, “I think the events of this episode have opened up a whole new world for Lee in his life. Lee has learned some valuable lessons and been shaken to the core by the episode’s events.” So while I wouldn’t say he is well on his way to falling in love here, I think the door is open for that to happen for him. But once this door opens up, it doesn’t take him long at all.
I’m trying to remember my past comments and can’t, so I’ll reserve the right to change my mind on this! It’s late so I’m going to have to read what everyone else wrote tomorrow and comment then!
I have to agree with BJO on something here. As sweet as the tag was I don’t think Lee was intentionally flirting with Amanda at this point. I think Lee was trying to restore the closeness with Amanda and takes it one step further than he had in the past because on some level he realizes just how much he needs that closeness now that he almost lost it. However, the light-hearted way Lee goes about it tells me he is not trying to initiate or feel anything out here. He just wants an end to the drama and he wants the closeness back.
I do think Lee was well on the way to falling in love here as stated in theory 6. I don’t think the door just opened. I think it opened awhile ago and Lee is just now starting to feel like it might be safe to go through it. However, Lee has not reconciled those thoughts yet and I don’t think he would intentionally flirt as it might give Amanda the wrong idea.
I also agree with what BJO said that by holding out her hand out Amanda was almost asking for Lee to take it. Like maybe subconsciously she was trying to restore the closeness too. It seems that without really thinking about it maybe Amanda was making Lee an offer because she was the one who rebuffed his touch the last time. Amanda is letting Lee know that everything is okay now and his touch will once again be welcome.
I agree with what you both are saying about Amanda’s extended hand through the sweater was an invitation for Lee to touch her again. I wonder how long or in what way touch would have been restored in she hadn’t. I do think the kiss and the wink may have surprised her a bit, and I bet it made her a little light headed as well. I think she may have had to take a few deep breaths when she got herself alone in order to put all of her reactions to Lee in the studied order she keeps them in. Not too many breaths though, I think she has the thing pretty well under wraps though. Lee, I am not so sure about…
Hmmm, interesting thought, Morley. Part of me says he’d just go back to his normal self – hand on the small of her back, etc. The other part of me likes to think that Lee would have let her touch him first in some way before he touched her again. I think I’m going to go with #2.
I like #2. I can imagine a certain amount of tension growing inside of him as he waited, and then the relief when she finally reached out. It would probably have been something as simple as a hand on his elbow to ask him a question or something like that. But what a relief.
Actually I like the way they did it here, because it seemed natural and playful, it progressed the characters very nicely.
“Is that Amanda’s old car? I think it might be!!?”
Vehicle Patrol says yes–that is the Ford LTD Country Squire wagon… one of the indicators are the rims–the Oldsmobile Amanda is driving at this point of S2 has wire spoke rims. 🙂
Does it strike anyone else as funny that Amanda’s certificate is for *Mrs.* Amanda King? I mean, yes–she goes by Mrs.–but on a certificate? Really? Is just Amanda King not sufficient? *shrug*
Francine! Button it!
Tee hee heeeee… love it. 🙂
Love even more the tone of the “I’ll see what I can do about it…” comment. *frantically reaching for swoon helmet* Oh, and I like that he immediately cottons on to Amanda’s comment about not having anywhere to put the award–he’s not confused as to why.
I think that the award is a culmination of not only her effort here, but all of her efforts up to this point–at least that’s what I like to think…
I also think that Amanda’s reaction is modesty. She doesn’t do what she does for recognition (a super secret squirrel spy agency is really not the place for recognition–at least public recognition, I guess peer recognition is different)–she believes in what she does. Amanda is a very honest, caring individual–she just gives, with no thought to any sort of reward (all of her volunteering comes to mind) –> being singled out for recognition throws her for a bit of a loop.
Yes, Lee is flirting… but respectfully flirting. 🙂 And no, this hand kissing isn’t like “Pepe Le Pew” in Weekend. This is real, not cover–and defintely not over-the-top cover… it’s heartfelt, meaningful, respectful…
Amanda doesn’t fit neatly into any of Lee’s neat little boxes for women. He’s learning this, and learning just how wonderful and unique Amanda really is, but he’s still blind to his feelings–they’re not anything he’s had experience with before, himself, and can’t recognise them. Yet. But Amanda’s patient (and has a great set of Tupperware). 🙂
I wondered about the Mrs. Amanda King, too. I’d think that normally, they’d just put “Amanda King” and not bother with martial status. I know that they don’t on college degrees or certificates.
lol, I meant marital status, not “martial” status, although I’ve been told that love is a battlefield. 😉
haaaa.. love your comments KC so funny!
Mrs Amanda King on the certificate? bugged the daylights out of me.. but I chose to not go down that route 😉 Is it normal? in the 80s? I wouldn’t automatically assume it wasn’t normal. I just wish it wasn’t there!!! that ‘Mrs’ ugh.. it’s like Joe is always hovering around and he took off to flippin Africa! nope.. not a fan! 😉
Yes I think respectful flirting is a great description! again- how we define flirting seems to vary. I think there was just a hint of it here – not enough for Amanda to think- what the heck?? Is Lee coming on to me?? but enough that Lee tries taking his playfulness just that little step further 😉
rofl yes no pepe le pew! It was very disloyal of me that comparison! Poor Lee 😉
Aha!!! the Tupperware is back eh! 🙂
Sorry about the Tupperware analogy, Iwsod. It just works so well for me. Pretty soon we can do some spring cleaning, right?
I agree that the definition of flirting would make a difference in how you see this finger kiss. It is a playful touch either way you look at it, I think and I can’t remember any earlier time that Lee has done something of that nature with Amanda, does anyone else?
The way we consider “love” is another thing that would make a difference in the discussion of this episode. I think we touched on this before in some earlier episode. Did you create a separate post for that discussion Iwsod? I remember having a discussion on what “love” is from somewhere, just don’t remember where.
I don’t think the ‘Mrs.’ was the norm for divorced women in the 1980s. And yes, the different title for marital status for females has always bugged the heck out of me even when I was a little girl. I remember ranting in grade school how males should take a different title when they are married if woman had to.
At least the certificate didn’t say “Mrs. Joe King”. Now that would really send me on a tear!
“At least the certificate didn’t say “Mrs. Joe King”. Now that would really send me on a tear!”
Amen, sister! *high five*
KC, you be so funny! And I have received many a certificate (mostly valueless) for Mrs. with my name or my husband’s name. I usually decorated them and put them over my desk 😉 People were starting to use Ms. more in the 80s but divorcees were often still introduced as Mrs. Blahblah. When my sister got divorced and went back to her maiden name in the 90s, it was less of a big deal. (I hate the word divorcee, it always denoted something negative about the woman involved. Yep I do have a lot of rants don’t I?) I like the fact that it doesn’t seem to be an issue nowadays, so rah for we women!
Funny? And here I thought I’d put class clown aside long enough to actually write something vaguely intelligent and maybe even minutely insightful. Sigh… *heads back to her class clown desk*
Just kidding… 😀
Yeh, the “Mrs” makes me want to choke someone, but *takes a deep breathe* it was the 80s and there was a deep divide still going on. When I got married in ’89 and didn’t take my husband’s name, half my family and his hit the roof. For #$%^#^ sake, I was 36 and had used my name professionally for 15 years. My friends got it. Different times.
Rant over 😉
I changed my name and had no problem doing it. Even in today’s age I don’t mind being called mrs. But to put it on a certificate of recognition. That’s insulting. She is suppose to be being recognized by her professional accomplishments here, not whether or not she was once able to bag a man. Makes me wonder if whoever said Billy and Lee were behind getting that certificate was right. Billy has always thought of Amanda as Mrs King and I am sure on some level Lee does too because she has two kids. Whatever, even for the 80’s that seems ridiculous. And even though I don’t mind being called Mrs maybe once a woman is divorced she should go by Ms. What was the point of the Mrs. other than it sounding better for the name of the show. It’s misleading.
My husband even said the first time I got him to watch this show what is she doing running around with that guy all the time if she is a married woman. Misleading.
Thank heavens the original pilot where Amanda was married to Dean was changed. That would have been awkward on so many levels. 🙂 It makes for such a cool title though.
Amanda was suppose to be married to Dean? How would she have explained taking off with a strange man all the time? Never heard that before. Thank god that didn’t happen.
Petra’s site (link on right) has a copy of the pilot script. It’s in the steno section (I think, maybe cryptography). You have to register to see that section but totally worth it. It is such a fascinating read. And yes, thankfully, saner heads prevailed and made her divorced before the show started.
Actually I think if that is how they had written the show, I never would have watched it.
You know it’s funny Misty, how many people were emotionally involved in whether I changed my name or not. I didn’t even think about my decision until I started getting flack. On the other hand people call me Mrs. all the time and I quite enjoy it! In fact, when I was teaching people would call my husband by my last name when he came by or called the school ROFL! He was a big muckymuck in the district yet no one knew who he was, so I found it hysterical *evil grin*! On the other hand he told my students that he was an astronaut for NASA and that rumor ran rampant through the school. Love the man!
It’s a personal decision so maybe I shouldn’t preach about Amanda not going by Mrs. anymore, maybe she feels more comfortable with that because of the kids. Still doesn’t belong a certificate.
I agree that it doesn’t need to be on the certificate, but I do think the fact that Amanda refers to herself as Mrs King says something about her. I think at that time women were beginning to exert the option to be a MS. as opposed to Miss or Mrs. But she kept the Mrs. Yes I think she did it because of the boys, but I also think she did it because of her high view of marriage, even though she isn’t married any more. I don’t think she took her marriage as an “oh well that one didn’t last,” I think and she is out looking for the next one. There is something about taking your husbands name that is an outward sign of the change in our person, we are no longer one individual person, it kind of takes on the corporateness of being in a marriage. ( please don’t hear this as judgment on any one’s name decisions. I don’t really have a strong opinion about any choice. I took my husband’s name, my sister kept her maiden name. My mother still has my father’s last name even though they have been divorced for 25 years and my father’s new wife kept her own maiden name. so go figure, whatever). But the fact that Amanda still refers to herself as Mrs. King kind of shows me that she still honors the impact that the marriage with Joe has had on her life. Now that could be a good thing or a bad thing or maybe a little bit of both. But I do think she had a choice and this is what she chose.
I think there is also something about this “Mrs.” title that Lee both admires and shies away from.
You know that all kind of bothers me that we never really got to see her as Mrs Stetson.
Yes, me too. Soo sorry we never saw Francines face 😦
Now that’s one Francine scene I would have really enjoyed watching!
I have a thought about that too, but I think I should wait until we get to season 4 for that one. 😉
In addition to her view of marriage, I would think the “Mrs.” would discourage unwanted advances by other men (aka Mr. Honeycutt Typewriter — unfortunately, he got to read the job application and see the “divorced” part). Does Amanada still wear a ring?
I think she might on her right hand? And I totally agree about using the ‘Mrs.” to discourage unwanted advances. (I am guilty of wearing a fake engagement ring when I was waitressing for the same shielding effect.)
I don’t know if she wears a ring, she does have a ring on her ring finger, is it her left or right hand? But I have always thought that her diamond solitaire necklace could be the diamond from her engagement ring from Joe. I could see Amanda doing that as she slowly let go of the dream of marriage and a family that it seems to me she would have held onto. If that was the case it would give the absence of the necklace some significance. And then, of course the necklace changes soon…
Not sure about her right hand, but I’m pretty sure she wears only a pinky ring on her left hand. I just went and checked her opening scene in TFT and saw it when she ruffles Jamie’s hair. I think that pinkie ring stays with her throughout the series.
She wears a (pinky) ring on her left hand pinky finger and another ring on her right hand ring finger (but it doesn’t look like an engagement ring or wedding band, if that’s what you’re getting at)…
The “Mrs.” thing was really something that continued from the older generation at that time. It began disappearing in the later 80’s and is still occasionally used by those in their 70’s and 80’s today. Yes, even divorced women were still known as “Mrs.” it was not only something that was considered respectful, but it was a symbol that she wasn’t just a “floozy” who had children. (Not trying to be offensive, ladies, just a statement of the thinking in those days.) I know some divorced women today who reverted back to maiden names, others who kept their married names.
I remember when a female doctor we knew got married and kept her “professional” name. It was quite a conundrum as to how to address an invitation to them for an event. Now, it’s very commonplace.
Thanks for checking out if that is Amanda’s car KC!! I knew that you’d know!!! 🙂
Sorry I rushed past that snippet – doh!
Car Patrol’s got your back! 🙂
I do love this tag and I love it even more now after reading your post, Iwsod and everyone else’s comments.
I wonder if Lee and Billy didn’t have something to do with this award that Amanda receives? I agree that Amanda has done many more remarkable things on behalf of the country than this, but Lee never really was as impacted as he was here. I wonder if it didn’t just all snowball for him in this one and he wanted to do something to be able to communicate how much he recognized everything that Amanda had done on his behalf and on the countries behalf during all her time working with him. Did he nominate or write up some sort of a report that made her a candidate for this award. Maybe Lee couldn’t yet personally communicate as well as he wanted to what he wanted to so he did it this way. I do like the wording and how it brings us back to the beginning of both Amanda’s real professional work with the agency and the beginning of Lee’s emotional connection to her.
If he did indeed initiate the award, it is interesting to note his reaction when he realizes that she can’t display it anywhere. He seems a bit deflated by that, even though for her it is a fact of life. It shows to me that he is connected to her on the personal level as a family person and not just a colleague. Maybe that didn’t make sense. But I like watching Lee come to recognize Amanda as the multifaceted woman that she is and embrace her as a whole.
As for Amanda’s apparent lack of self esteem or confidence here, I kind of agree. I do think she has areas where she falters. I think every one does. She reminds me of myself. I have no fear of speaking my mind, or speaking before crowds and I have a pretty good sense of who I am and who I am not, I am pretty comfortable with that. But put me in a situation like that one that Amanda was in and I would duck my head and not quite know how to respond. I would be polite, but somehow praise like that is not something I would seek. One on one with someone I was really comfortable with, no problem a room full of people, thanks, but I will be going now. Why? I have no idea…. it is nice to be praised, but it for someone like Amanda to be the focal point is uncomfortable. But it needs to be done for her, Lee needs to let it be done for her. she needs to let it be done for her.
But the best part is that one on one moment. I do think that meant more to both of them than the plaque or that little ceremony in Billy’s office. I love that Lee was a bit deflated that Amanda couldn’t let her mother or the boys see the award. I love it that he offers to hang it up somewhere in the bull pen. I love it that he compliments her again, privately. And then that she turns it into a tease which is the invitation from Amanda back into normalcy with Lee. She is a gracious woman and she holds nothing against him here, they can go forward in fact they have jumped ahead a few spaces I think And I love it that Lee notices her playfulness and knows exactly how to play with her. I love it that they can journey forward into the next phase playfully because I think that indicates a lot of trust and forgiveness and the ability to embrace and enjoy who the other is. It is just ok to be yourself and to enjoy the other and let the other enjoy you. No plans, no expectations, no road maps for the relationship. That is a great way to grow in knowing another person at this stage.
And I love the way Lee takes it one step further. I do think he knows this is the first time he has touched her since that moment at Ned’s and he is going to make it significant. Yes it was chivalrous, gentlemanly, honoring, sweet, and very flirtatious. And I don’t think Lee would flirt lightly with Amanda. I think he tried it a bit early on and she kind of rebuffed him. The end of TGTN with the drink offer, MB, and the tag in Mole come to mind, maybe even that scene at the café in LODG although not all of us see the thumb stroke. Even the bridge scene in BH although it wasn’t a flirtatious moment it did call into focus what tough meant and she wouldn’t let him put his arm around her after the conversation. Even though they have always touched and they were drawn to touch each other, on the surface there was an awareness of emotional boundaries, even though I think under the surface they were forging a very strong emotional attachment. Here Lee brings that bond to the surface maybe? Kissing a hand could be acceptable between close friends maybe, a wink and a kiss??? From Lee? It feels like another game changer.
I do think Lee is well on his way to falling irrevocably in love with Amanda, but I still don’t think he is aware of it. I do think he is aware of a shift and maybe it is just so strange to him he isn’t sure how to respond to it. Maybe he thinks he can still keep things compartmentalized kind of like he thought he could deal with this case. He thought he could handle it and get the bad guys all by himself. Maybe he thinks he can handle all these strong emotions and keep everything under control, separate and manageable in his life. And I think Amanda is too, but she is so used to fighting it, or putting it in its place and keeping the door locked.
I think I am really babbling on tonight. None of these thoughts are very well thought through. There is so much newness between them I am not quite sure how to describe what I see without charging ahead into the rest of the story…
I hear you. It is really hard to watch such a turning point in Lee and Amanda’s reletionship and not rush ahead and point out all the areas you see later as being effected by this episode.
I also think Lee is still trying to compartamentalize a little though I can’t rush ahead and say why I believe that. But I think it fails miserably from this point on and it doesn’t take long before he realizes he can’t.
I really like how you point out how Amanda is fighting the feelings as well at this point but mostly because she is use to fighting it and keeping it locked away. As much as things have changed at this point,I don’t believe Amanda is ready to open herself up to these feelings either. There has been too much hot and cold from Lee up to this point, looking at her like he is on fire for her one minute, and giving her the cold shoulder the next. As someone said Lee is a little slow on the uptake. He just doesn’t know what to do with his feelings for Amanda. I think a big part of the reason Lee is still in denial for a little while about this being love is that it has been so long since he felt love or since anyone has shown him love that he doesn’t even recognize it.
One thing I wonder is when exactly do you think Amanda did fall in love if she has been locking it away so long. You seem to have a lot of insight so I am curious to what you or anyone else thinks. I always believed because she was less closed off and had much more faith that Amanda fell in love first. However, with Lee I see a definate turning point when I think this is it, this is where his feelings become love. Never saw one of those with Amanda. Did anyone else?
Hi guys gotta be brief here – I do understand the difficulty with not looking ahead – Don’t forget though, in future episodes we can look back at this moment and understand it more fully. With every new episode, we understand the previous episodes better and better..
You ask great questions Misty.. I’ll look forward to exploring this love journey of Amanda’s in upcoming episodes! From what we’ve covered so far- I don’t think I can answer your question about Amanda though..My feeling though is she loves him as a dear friend- and has not explored it being anything more because she doesn’t think Lee is capable or looking for it. This is my guess of where Amanda is at – at the end of Burn Out.
Where do you think she is at the end of this episode?
Huh, interesting, IWSOD, so you think Lee is starting to fall in love,but Amanda isn’t at this point. I always saw Amanda as being a little in love at this point and that is part of why she stood by Lee so firmly. Because Amanda is so open and always believed in Lee so completely I guess I always thought she started falling a little in love almost(not quite) from the beginning but would never give into those feelings allowing them to completely blossom into total love until Lee started returning those feelings. I just never could pinpoint the moment that actually happened. Maybe I will as we go through season 3. Maybe I’ll even change my mind about when Amanda started to fall in love as we go. I have changed my mind once or twice reading everybody’s comments on this blog. I guess right now I just don’t see a woman going through the lengths Amanda went in this episode for someone she thinks of as just a good friend, though, I think that is all she would acknowledge at this point.
I think Lee and Amanda are fighting different things in different ways.
Amanda has strong feelings for Lee – but I hesitate to call it ‘in love’ at this point..hard for me to explain without talking of what’s ahead.. and heck, you don’t have to agree with me… I expect many will not but I’ll give it a go..
For me, Amanda hasn’t yet seen the evidence that Lee is changing his ways when it comes to women and relationships.
I think Amanda loves Lee as a person, and as a very dear friend – probably the best friend of her life. but as the man of her romantic future? at this stage? sorry I don’t see it. Amanda is the mother of two children. and she values her family very much.
I don’t see her truly falling for Lee unless she knew he was looking for a permanent relationship.
At the end of Burn Out, Lee is still the playboy to Amanda.. dating Randi’s you know?
Amanda accepts Lee for who he is, and doesn’t try to change him.
So for me, right now, Lee is simply not an option for Amanda romantically.
If Amanda was in love with Lee now and holding it back? and Lee noted how protective she has been of him – Amanda has nothing to hide here- she is open in her caring for him. She isn’t hiding deep feelings of love -Because for her right now, she is his loyal friend and partner. Not a romantic partner.
But nor is it all so black and white.. I have said that the events of this episode, and the last few will have been confusing for Amanda – and I think the ‘friend’ Tupperware she has been keeping her feelings for Lee in is starting to lose it’s airtight seal 😉 and she is starting to need to fight this just a little more me thinks.
To me, Amanda listens to her heart – her love for her family would tell her not to put any thought into a romantic future with Lee (she put that little crush away in season 1!) and I think Amanda is wise in making decisions about her future that effect her family, she is quite savvy in caring for her emotional health. Pining after a man who is not looking for marriage? who doesn’t want to be a bomber’s father? very bad idea.. Amanda nips this idea in the bud mentally- so she can emotionally stay on top of things. IMHO not an unwise way of dealing with Lee and all his swooniness! 😉
That’s the best I can do without going ahead sorry- And I reserve the right to change my mind 😉
Amanda deals with feelings for Lee, while wanting to pursue a serious relationship.
Lee grapples with his feelings for Amanda, while not wanting to pursue a serious relationship – I think he is now beginning to reconsider all this thanks to the events of this episode.. only- Amanda would not necessarily know this yet.
I think Lee grapples much more than Amanda.. and has stronger feelings going on than Amanda – because Amanda has the love of her family and is emotionally strong. Lee’s got no one like Amanda and is still learning how to be emotionally healthy!!!
I do hope I’ve made some kind of sense – and I totally understand others will see this in a very different way. I’m looking forward to exploring all this more fully as we get to the end of season two and into season three. I think most of us are in agreement that this is where the biiiiig changes occur – though most likely, we may see these processes and changes differently..
bye for now!
I totally agree with you that Amanda would not have even considered a reletionship with Lee at this point. She is too smart and she does care too much about her family. Amanda is loyal to Lee sure(maybe even to a fault) but she’s not stupid and she’s not young and nieve enough at this point to let herself get carried away by her feelings. I think Lee was going to have to show her a difference before he had a real chance with her. No matter how Amanda felt about Lee she was not going to open her heart to him just to let it get broken. But I still think Amanda loved Lee. The beauty of her love to me is that is was unconditional. She was willing to go on loving and giving of herself all the while accepting the fact that she might not ever be able to be with him. That being said I don’t really see her as pining for Lee, I think she really did fully accept the fact that she might not be able to be with him and was set on having a fulfilling life anyway. She hadn’t given up the idea of sharing her life with someone just because she couldn’t have.Lee. I’m not sure that was entirely realistic though. These two IMHO were always so connected and so much apart of each other’s lives that I think they might have both been kidding themselves that anyone else could have really had a place.
I have to agree with you IWSOD. Amanda right at the moment sees Lee as a good friend, even her best friend, but not a candidate for anything romantic. She’s looking for a permanent relationship and Lee hasn’t shown her that he’s ready for that yet. IMHO the word Love is such a hard concept, we can love a person enough that we would go to great lengths for them, but that doesn’t mean we see them as someone to marry. For Lee I honestly think he is just starting to see what love is and I think he is like Amanda in that he loves her as a really good friend, but romantically or emotionally I don’t think he’s ready.
Me three. (Also agree with the assessment of the status of Amanda’s feelings for Lee.)
Okay, I am a little confused as to wether people see Amanda as loving Lee at this point but just not open to a reletionship with him, or wether they see Amanda as not loving Lee because she is not open to a reletionship with him. I see her has a little bit in love but not willing to surrender to it yet because at this point Amanda is not open to the possibility of a romantic reletionship with Lee at all. A lot of my thoughts about this are that I see moments early in season 3 when I think she is clearly already in love but I can’t mention those yet. Just going off this episode I saw what Amanda felt for Lee as love because it seems so much deeper to me than anything I’ve ever felt for just a close friend. But then I think we may be getting hung up too much on the word love here. These two IMO have always had such a powerful connection and underlying attraction that I think what they had was always stronger than friendship. Even when they weren’t really friends, their connection was stronger than friendship.
After all I doubt Lee would have committed treason for hardly anyone else and I would not have descriibed him as being in love with Amanda by any means at that point.. So maybe Amanda would do everything she’s done for Lee without really being totally in love yet. I don’t believe in soul mates but I do believe there are people meant to be together, sometimes forever, sometimes not. IMO these two were always meant to find each other and that connection was always there.
But at the same time, though, I feel Lee and Amanda always had something stronger than friendship I am glad SMK took the time to really build a friendship between them before they got together. So well I do see Amanda as loving Lee at this point, doesn’t really matter if I am right or wrong, they were always gonna get there.
Misty ~ I see Amanda as loving Lee as a dear friend (best friend) but not romantically at this point in time. I would say that if she saw some change in him of wanting a lasting relationship her love could easily move to romantic. Right now Lee does not have permanent relationships with women and IMO he has them to met a physical need. Amanda views relationships differently…she has two children to think about and is looking for something more permanent (not that she hasn’t dated causally). But, I think that if she is going to start dating someone seriously she wants it to be someone she could marry. For her and Lee to date causally would probably mean that at this point in his journey they would end up in bed and for me Amanda is not that type of person…which Lee even admits that she’s not that type of person to have an affair in Season 1’s FR. Plus at this point in his journey he is not ready to be a father either, but I think the seed has been planted…
Yeah, I get what everyone is saying about all the reasons Amanda would not have fallen in love, but to me that is the same as saying Lee wouldn’t fall in love with Amanda for all the very valid reasons he had. He did anyway. I just don’t think you can control how you feel. You can, however ,control what you do about it which is why Amanda would never given into those feelings at this point. But despite all the reasons why Amanda shouldn’t love Lee, I think Amanda is just such an open, warm, in her own way passionate woman that I find it hard to believe she could get so close to a man and share such an intimacy with him(not physical) and not fall in love. Not to mention Lee brings out an exciting and adventurous side to Amanda most people don’t get to see. The unwaivering faith Amanda has always had in Lee has always spoke to me to be somewhat a sign of love. And let’s face it Amanda would be far from the first smart woman to fall in love with a playboy. That’s been happening for centuries.
I think Amanda is drawn to the strong protector that would lay down his life down for her, and yet at the same time she has seen the real man behind the scarecrow mask and the nurterer in her is drawn to him. People are always talking about how Amanda accepts Lee so completely so why is it such a stretch that if she accepts him just the way he is she could fall in love with him just the way he is? That being said I don’t think Amanda would embrace those feeling or allow them to flourish until Lee shows her he is serious about her and wouldn’t break her heart. I don’t think Amanda falls completely in love yet(far from it) but I think the see was planted before now.
Logic just doesn’t always overcome love. And I just don’t get how people can see that with Lee but not Amanda. She’s softer than he is and has less walls up. I think I am with Jule in the Amanda is already in love with Lee but protects herself camp. I think she is even somewhat aware of it as she often puts up her defenses when things get close between them. Don’t know if she would call it love at this point, but she is definately aware of feelings beyond friendship.
Don’t get me wrong I am not dead set against what so many of you are saying here. It’s actually quite interesting to me that so many people on this forum actually think Lee fell in love first. Took me by surprise. Most places that I’ve read about Scarecrow and Mrs. King kind of take it as a given that Amanda fell in love first. Guess I did too, so I actually enjoy seeing a different view point. I don’t really see myself changing my opinion, but I have before on this blog when I didn’t think I would so I intend to keep an open mind going forward.
I really like what you say here Misty. I always felt that Amanda had deep feelings for Lee for much of the latter part of S2 but being wiser than I ever was at that age, instinctively knew that that was not a place to go so the Tupperware got lots of use. Sometimes things brew under the surface and just need a little push to come to light. But oh can it make you crazy! Amanda is a wise woman, and stays sane (except for chicken salad sandwiches *grin*).
Misty, I was going to reply to your comment here, but then I realized that there is a post called “Discussion of Lee and Amanda’s Love Story” post that contains exactly what I would reply to you here. It is under the Category called Lee and Amanda Relationship. Under the picture of Amanda on the right at the top there is a drop down menu of Categories and Lee and Amanda Relationship is one of the choices. I think the post containing the “what and when is love” discussion is the last one in that section. Maybe we need to visit it again?
Morley that is a fantastic idea!
follow the link if you are looking for that thread. I’ll add a link to Burn Out. I might copy and paste the reply I wrote to Misty last night there.. it pretty much sums up where I think Amanda is at this point in the journey.. though – you’ll see in the comments I just posted: If you would like to write a post about Love – that would be very very welcome! 🙂 I think you’d do a wonderful job!!
“I also think Lee is still trying to compartamentalize a little though I can’t rush ahead and say why I believe that. But I think it fails miserably from this point on and it doesn’t take long before he realizes he can’t.” I agree with that 100%! I have never enjoyed watching someone fail so miserably. That is why I will call him “poor Lee” for a bit now.
And I agree, I don’t think he recognizes that it is love he is feeling. I think he knows it is strong, I think it scares him but I think that is as far as he gets in his cognition at this point. I have seen people in a similar position to Lee in real life and they have even sabotaged a good thing before it could really be because they were so scared of it. Not having experienced love can be a very difficult thing to overcome even when a real love is standing right in front of you, romantic love or any other kind of love.
Misty, I think you are right about Amanda not having any real turning point. I think she recognized that it would be very easy for her to have some really strong feelings for Lee in season 1, definitely by Weekend. But I think she used her own brand of self protection and denial as well. We have referred to it before as Tupperware. She sealed her feelings up and tucked them away in the pantry in a nice neat organized way telling herself that there was no way anything was going to happen there and the best thing she could do was to maintain a professional friendship with Lee. It was all he could handle and it would probably be all she could handle too. And I think she stayed there until… well we haven’t gotten there yet. I don’t think she would say she was in love with Lee, but I don’t think it would take very much for her to get there if she just opened the closet door and reached for that Tupperware.
Lee has a Tupperware closet too. His looks kind of neat at first glance, but behind all those really thin containers are these huge ones that aren’t stacked so neatly and if you crack the door just a bit now they are all going to fall out and the contents are going to pour all over the place. I think he is beginning to hear them shifting behind the door now and he is about to make one more last ditch effort to keep that door closed. Like you said we get to enjoy watching him fail miserably.
That is my take on it at the moment. 🙂
Hi Morley! I’ve been enjoying your comments! I am looking forward to exploring this idea of Amanda having a turning point in her feelings for Lee – but for now, at this stage, I’m not seeing Amanda as having changed direction.. This next 7 or so episodes do seem to be full of lots of major happenings though so I’m sure this will come up eventually – if not please bring it up! 🙂
now we’ve explore burn out more fully, I’m looking forward to what’s ahead and seeing it in light of what we learned in this episode.. This is such a powerful episode!!
I agree, Iwsod. I think Amanda is pretty fastidious in maintain her friendship/ professional direction right now.
I am so glad you take this slow pace through the episodes. This is the part of the show where I am tempted to watch one episode after another until then they all blur together and I can’t see all those precious details anymore. Funny that what we love is the S L O W growth of their relationship, but we want to rush through it. Keep us strolling and seeing everything, Iwsod. Thanks 🙂
I think professionally and confidence-wise, this will be seen as a huge turning point for Amanda
Morley, I love how you are able to walk through the Lee/Amanda emotional journey and delineate it so well. I agree with you, “I do think Lee is well on his way to falling irrevocably in love with Amanda, but I still don’t think he is aware of it. I do think he is aware of a shift and maybe it is just so strange to him he isn’t sure how to respond to it.” And I am in the Amanda is in love with Lee but protects herself camp. I change as to when I think she fell in love, like you Misty, but always felt sure she was in deep by this time.
I can’t believe it never occurred to me that Lee and Billy would have had something to do with Amanda receiving this award from the President. Duh! It has to be one or both of them. How else would the President even know about her role in all that happened? I agree with what you say about Lee being hit by that snowball and wanted to do something special for her as a result. I’m not sure I would use the word deflated about Lee when Amanda tells him she wishes she had a place to hang it. I don’t know what I’d use instead though. Does he just forget that Dotty and the boys can’t see it? This realization shows he is connected to Amanda on a personal level, but I also wonder if the fact that he didn’t think of it on his own ahead of time is confirmation that he is now starting to think of Amanda as her own person – as that amazing woman, someone to be proud of and not just a suburban HW with two kids, a mortagage yada yada.
Well, whatever it is he quickly recovers and comes up with a good solution. I’m sure Billy will go along with Lee’s plan 😉
Love what you say in the next paragraph, Morley! Especially this part, “It is just ok to be yourself and to enjoy the other and let the other enjoy you. No plans, no expectations, no road maps for the relationship. That is a great way to grow in knowing another person at this stage.” Wish I had been that wise when I was younger.
I have a hard time understanding Lee not being aware that he is falling in love with Amanda. I guess it must be something he’s never experienced before, although he’d loved evil Ava. Regardless, I do think he is for sure changing. We’ve talked before how BB gives us new Lee faces at key times in the series. Here in this tag I think we get one. This smile here on Lee’s face looks like a new one to me – another knee buckler.
It signifies to me that something has changed and what a great actor BB is.
I don’t know what led me to that topic, but there it is and I must call it a night!
In this part of the scene where he smiles at her his eyes look at every part of her face as he smiles. He is just so open here in his admiration and affection for her. It is a new thing. Some of that guardedness has come down for good now.
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“I have a hard time understanding Lee not being aware that he is falling in love with Amanda. I guess it must be something he’s never experienced before, although he’d loved evil Ava.”
I think Lee thought that what he felt for Eva was love. I think maybe he did feel a bit of love but I don’t think it went very deep and I don’t think he let her in too far. I know he was hurt by it but how much did he really love her if he never really talked to her about it?
Again I think it has to do with his self protective mechanisms due the trauma he experienced as a child and an upbringing that lacked nurture. I do think the Colonel loved him, which could actually make it even harder for Lee to understand what love really is like. He knew a kind of “love” but one that didn’t flow easily and wasn’t openly communicated. I think of Lee with lots of levels in his heart that are locked and have been almost all of his life. Maybe so long that he doesn’t even know they exist anymore, maybe he has an inkling of a memory of them and something locked away down there recognized something in Amanda? But although he has slowly been unlocking those levels, I don’t think he has even gotten down to the inner sanctum yet. He may recognize a growing closeness and affection for Amanda, he may be aware that he values her, that she is precious to him. I think there is a duality (is that the right word) in his response to the changes, to the unlocking he is experiencing as well. I think he is aching to unlock his heart and at the same time freaking with fear because he is aching to. I do Think at this moment he has opened more levels than he has ever before. I think he is way beyond where he was with Eva, the thing that is different is that he hasn’t allowed himself to consider or pursue anything physical with Amanda so that part of “love” hasn’t come into play for them. I think that may be one of the reasons why he doesn’t recognize the true nature of what he feels for Amanda. I also think the man is a master at denial, it may even be part of his Agency training.
I actually think that sums it up pretty well. I personally think the man still had to many walls up yet to recognize love. And like you said Lee hasn’t yet expressed himself physically with Amanda which is probably the only way Lee really knows how to express any need for a woman. Though I think he did feel something for Evil Eva I can’t help but wonder if that stemmed from something that started as a firery passion. Otherwise, like you said why hadn’t he told her how he felt. I think this may very well be the first time Lee has had a real intimacy with a woman before things got physical.
HI Everyone! Going to be brief today as the electricity is about to get switched off at my house for city maintenance..
Just wanted to say Shona loved hearing your thoughts 🙂 your love for Amanda’s character really shines through! The more I think about her, the more I enjoy this character!
I think I understand where you guys are coming from now -I hesitate to label Amanda as ‘in love’ but I pretty much agree with everything else! and I get that many of you are comfortable to label it ‘in love’ 🙂
I can agree that as Jule put it, Amanda is subconsciously struggling with her growing feelings of Love for Lee – I like this, and I think she has been struggling since maybe Odds on a dead pigeon? Lee was so darn sweet to her it shocked her!!! and.. Amanda’s Casablanca dream in DOA, along with her drugged reaction of ‘Oh boy!’ were revealing!!! I can totally get on board with saying Amanda’s fighting some growing feelings now – but something holds me back from labelling it ‘in love’. It’s that point of no return thing I guess- don’t mind me!.. and I have started to look at Murder Between Friends.. ahem..
Sooooo I figure for now, I’ll ask myself the question as I watch ‘Is Amanda in Love’ and I’ll continue to ask it, until there is a moment I’ll say yes – when that will be and why – I am going to leave to unfold with the story as I keep an open mind about all this.
I could look back and tell you all – yeah I do think it was in Burn Out!! It might be something you can only see looking back. Or.. I might not be able to pin down a moment or episode. I don’t know! but I’m glad you guys are along for this journey and can stimulate our thinking with alternatives and options!
Ahh Eva – yuck!! Eva was conning both Angelo and Lee at the same time.. I think if her orders had been to marry Lee, the American agent – she would have… she had him on the hook. So glad to orders were to marry Angelo!! – though poor Angelo! I agree Lee thought it was love, but it wasn’t. He didn’t even know Eva – it was all a great big con because she was playing him. Another reason for Lee to mistrust feelings of Love I guess – this could play into why he fights his feelings for Amanda so much don’t you think? He’s felt ‘love’ for Eva, and it lied!!! Sorry this thought just came to me..
It’s funny, I didn’t guess most discussion after burn out would be about Amanda – I thought it might be about Lee. Not that I mind 🙂 It’s been wonderful!
Thought I would throw in my comments on Amanda as analysis and commentary is a little lighter for her than our Mr Swoony Hazel Eyes… naturally. It’s very easy to talk about and analyse Lee because his journey is in many ways so much more obvious than Amanda’s, and because he’s so totally handsome, sexy and charming, I’m sure there’s not one of us who wouldn’t crawl over broken glass to have his shoes parked under the bed. Ahem… I shall move on.
I had Murder Between Friends on my mind when I did my analysis of when Amanda knew she was in love with Lee and I’ve got my theory on how it all fits, which I shall share when we get to the next episode.
Re Eva – we can sometimes think we’re in love when we’re not. The ol’ rose coloured spectacles paint a pretty but distorted picture and we often miss the obvious clues and red flags about someone. However, I think even by now, if he was comparing his relationship with Eva and his feelings for Amanda, Lee would realise that what he feels for Amanda is much more profound. In hindsight he would be able to see the clues and red flags around Eva that he missed due to his feelings and I think also due to his being younger at the time and less discerning about these things. Lee probably toughened up his emotional barriers (not good) after Eva, and has also matured (good) a great deal since then and particularly in the last 2 years, and I think he would recognise the warning signs if another Eva came along, with or without Amanda in the picture. Amanda’s influence of the past 2 years has been to slowly but surely break down those destructive emotional barriers, which means he is now a mature but more emotionally intelligent man – which of course eventually leads him to realising he is good enough and can be the man that Amanda and her family need.
I always thought that a big part of the reason Lee and Amanda were wary of a romantic relationship was because each thought in a way they were not “good enough” for the other. Amanda thinking she can’t be what Lee needs (because she perceives that she can’t compete with the Randi’s of this world and she wouldn’t be able to “satisfy” him), and Lee thinking his lifestyle (with the Randi’s of this world) means he can’t be what she needs, i.e. a loving, settled man completely committed to one woman.
Because of the events in Burn Out – Amanda’s unwavering loyalty, her willingness to help him no matter what, and his own feelings around the slap, how he thinks he has hurt her not just physically but also more fundamentally in terms of their friendship relationship, their trust and confidence in each other – Lee now realises he loves Amanda as a friend. But in terms of realising he is “in love” he’s still furiously paddling up “de Nile” at the moment.
Shona, I like what you say, especially the last two paragraphs.
I think everyone will be surprised at how late I have Amanda recognizing that she has allowed herself to be in love with Lee, the point of no return kind of knowing. But I look forward to all the discussion.
I agree, iwsod, with this especially, “but I’m glad you guys are along for this journey and can stimulate our thinking with alternatives and options!” I have a stance on where I see Amanda now in her journey. But as we continue to walk, it will continue to morph a bit and change possibly as everyone’s thoughts about it come out. I normally like to make a decision and stick to it, but with SMK and this blog I love it too much to stop being open minded about it – especially Amanda. The only thing I am fairly certain I’ve made a final decision on is when Lee gets past that point of no return. That is my ground so to speak. Everything else, for him anyway, I see with that in mind. But we’ll see. There are far more creative and deep thinkers here on this blog than I am. I often come up with my own view but that view can change as I read what everyone else is saying. I’ve had my view changed so many times up to this point that I’m sure it will continue to happen!! You guys are great and I love reading what everyone has to say.
I am looking for that elusive “like” button again.
Thank you for explaining that, Morley. I’ve read it through three times and I do believe I have a grasp on it. There is a lot to think about in there. I like when you say, “he has opened more levels than he has ever before.” In an earlier comment I said that I think the door has not opened for Lee to fall in love with Amanda. I still think that. I think the door has opened for him to fall in love with her fully aware of what is happening. In the grand scheme of his overall journey to love (subconscious/unaware/insert your word here), I think the door opened up around ITCK.
I’m not sure when I think he actually becomes aware (I have no date like Skynet in the Terminator movies), but I’ll settle on that as we walk forward. But I do think that door to awareness has been finally opened.
I have one more comment about the whole in love thing. I Greek there are three kinds of love (I bet everyone already knows this, but I will go for it anyway). There is Phileo love which is a brotherly love, there is Agape love which is an unconditional love, then there is Eros love which is the sexual love. I think all three are important for a good loving marriage relationship. Lee and Amanda allowed the Phileo love to grow as they accepted one another as friends in late season 1 and season 2 I think this episode was when the recognized the Agape love that had grown between them and surrendered to it so it could flow freely between them. I don’t in any way think that they have allowed any eros love to exist between them. I think they may be slightly aware of the potential, but they are guarding themselves and each other from it.
There is a song by Katie Perry that is popular right now, I mentioned it at Ned’s, but I think it kind of coins where they are right now. It is called Unconditionally
Anyone want to make a SMK video for this song? I bet Burn Out would feature strongly in it.
Yes I can totally see this. When I’ve said all along that I see Amanda as totally loving Lee here I always meant the agape unconditional love. While I do see the Eros feelings existing between them, I do not think that is what either one is acting on in this episode. I only see it as existing at all because I think Lee and Amanda have always had an underlined attraction for one another and I see romantic feelings as something that has built up slowly but remained under the surface for two years. I do not think they have developed and explored this kind of love much at all at this point. Maybe that is where I confuse people when I say I think Amanda is in love. People take the term in love as to mean the eros kind of love. To me that is just an element of real love. Agape love is the foundation of real love. IMO eros love by itself isn’t strong enough to last. Eros love is only strong enough to last when it’s built upon Agape love. So while I think romantic feelings have always existed between them I am glad they waited to explore that aspect of their love until a real love had grown between them. And even though I call those romantic feelings eros love I am actually hesitant to say those feelings have really developed fully into love yet. While I think those feelings have always been present I think both Lee and Amanda were so guarded against them that they never had the chance to fully bloom into love. It wasn’t until they did grow to love each other so deeply in other ways that they weren’t able to stay so guarded against those feeling anymore. From this episode on out I see the eros kind of love taking hold more until they can’t really guard against it anymore, but I definately don’t think that is what they are acting on in this episode. If all of that makes any sense.
Makes perfect sense to me! Morley really helped this blog out by breaking down ‘love’ 🙂
I’m on board with everything you’ve said here Misty – and yeah ‘in love’ for me implies the presence of both agape and eros love. I think in future if I mention ‘love’ I’ll try and be clear what I mean by it (without writing 1000 word description of love! 😉 I’ll try! haaa)
As for what Misty wrote: ‘from this episode on out I see the eros kind of love taking hold more until they can’t really guard against it anymore’
Sorry, I’m not thinking that way – more and more I’m choosing to forget what’s ahead! – So I can stay in the present story – or I’m likely to brush over the detail- and I don’t want to 🙂 It may mean I get the odd idea that’s wrong – but I don’t mind.. because this journey is all about exploring the characters and coming to understand their journey better with them.
I am not aiming to have the story clear before I discuss it.. for me that’s half the fun 🙂
Looking back on the episodes I’ll probably be able to discern these turning points better and be able to discuss with you this kind of thing.. This is a pretty intense time in the smk story isn’t it!! 🙂
BTW- hooo haaa Misty love your Avatar!!!
Oh umm.. now is that agape love? definitely not eros love. tee heee. but then it is not unconditional.. my head hurts.. I just like it – a lot! okay?! tee heeee 😉
I can’t wait to have explored their story up to Stemwinder!!! patience Iwsod patience.. when you’re talking about Love you’ve got to be patient!
I found this quote from Thomas Merton this Morning. I thought it kind of fit here.
“The beginning of love is to let those we love be perfectly themselves, and not to twist them to fit our image. Otherwise we love we love only the reflection of ourselves we find in them.”
That is a long journey, but I think Lee and Amanda do it well. It takes time, just like Amanda says pretty soon.
That is lovely Morley. Yo always find the words that fit so beautifully.
I for one is glad that Amanda finally gets some recognition that she deserves!!! I’m doubly glad that Lee is about ready to burst his shirt with pride!! Love Lee’s flirting here…with Amanda and the audience 😉 So typical Amanda to be humble in accepting the reward and lighting the mood between her and Lee. I think she’s just as nervous to move their relationship to another level right now…I think she’s content with them being good friends, most likely best friends 🙂
On another thought something that sticks out for me about this episode was that Amanda receives a certificate of valor for Service Above and Beyond. What was the first episode where we see Lee really being Amanda’s hero and willing to do anything to save her, Service Above and Beyond. It’s like the reletionship is finally starting to come full circle. Lee has always been Amanda’s hero, and now I think Amanda is really Lee’s hero too. They will never be equals on a professional level, Lee will always be more experience and skilled than Amanda and probably always way out rank her, but by season 4 I always thought Lee idealized Amanda even a little more than she had always idealized him. Thus marks the beginning.
Checking in from the frozen wasteland where tomorrow will be our third day off from school. So technically we are still on Christmas vacation. Icy roads, water main breaks, and people who don’t know how to drive, good thing I know how to hibernate. Anyhow…
Lee is just so doggone proud of Amanda and happy to see her recognized. He is getting better at doing so and did tell her earlier how well she did with Harris. He now tends to save personal comments and touches for when they are alone. Amanda has always sort of been self-deprecating when it comes to recognition. She isn’t self-serving or doesn’t try to seek the limelight like some others. She doesn’t do what she does to get noticed. I think we’ve seen that even outside of the Agency with the charity events and the PTA events and others get the glory. Consequently I think that’s why she gets looked over–i.e. the badge, part-time work, low pay, etc. But ultimately and as time goes on she does end up in the limelight and does get the recognition and best of all she does get Lee. What is that is said, about the first being last and the last being first? She knows her time will come. And when it does she doesn’t make a big deal out of it.
At one point as they leave Billy’s office Amanda sort of glances toward Francine who doesn’t shake her hand. Francine is too focused on touting her capabilities and the fact that she was left out. She is told to “button it” and therefore as she seeks to be first, she is made last. Never mind that she wasn’t supportive of Lee in his burn out condition in the first place. It’s interesting that this might be the transition where Francine is marginalized more and more.
Lee and Amanda just look so wonderful together. The close up shots of them are awesome. It’s like no one else is even in the bullpen and they certainly don’t seem to be much aware of anyone else but each other. Swooning over the smile, the dimple, the kiss, and the wink!! I love your theories Iwsod, and agree that this is another turning point in their relationship. Lee is certainly learning that there is more to life than the Agency and that life has more to offer him. And it has been standing in front of him for quite some time.
For once something worth enabling.
Haaa! Yes! this is true!! 🙂
You can almost see Lee’s subconscious vs conscious thought at work here. He’s flirting but carefully, he’s feeling something deep and lovely but plays it lightly. You must be really cautious with your heart on the line shining there in your eyes; underneath it’s brewing up heartfelt love, on the surface it’s admiration and friendship. Lee is a bit slow on the uptake, Amanda is loving patience. He’s not the same man that started role playing burned out and she’s stepped across a line to a new level of professionalism. Don’t we often see ourselves in the reflection of a loved one’s eyes? Here Lee has and he is not the same man he was.
Looking for the like button again
My how the times have changed. Lee has totally gone from thinking Amanda isn’t good enough for the agency to beaming with pride totally thinking she deserves recognition from the president. I tend to agree with IWSOD here that she had done other things more important to deserve recognition from. As much as I love Lee I don’t see how it is so important to the nation that Amanda saved his butt. However, if Lee is beaming with pride over Amanda and it is something to shove down Francine’s throat(even though Amanda would never do that) I am happy. For the record I actually like Francine, but she deserves it. Woman is incapable of giving credit where credit is due where Amanda is concerned. Ironic Lee use to be right along side of Francine when it came to that, and now no one could beam with pride more.
Personally, I am also with Amanda on that bullet hole being so close. I was actually a little shocked when that scene was posted at seeing the bullet go right through the sweater. I remembered the scene very well, but I don’t think it ever sunk in for some reason just how close that bullet was. I guess I forgot the tag. I understand Lee had to make it look realistic, but Lord, if anything had gone even slightly wrong. Don’t get me wrong, I am sure Lee was taking no chances with Amanda’s life. I am sure he was confident enough that he could come that close and not hit, but thank heavens he wasn’t wrong.
I guess it took even more trust on Amanda’s part then I realized. That’s on a personnel level though, I still don’t quite see how this is the case Amanda got presidential recognition for. I wouldn’t need it, to have someone like Lee look at me like that and think that much of me would be enough, and I think that meant more to Amanda than anything. I think in Amanda’s life and heart Lee is way more important than the president and she waited a long time for him to see her in the light he obviously does now. The admiration and respect and trust Lee has for Amanda now is Way above Brunette’s are in. Personally I always got the impression in that episode the reason Lee was willing to accept Amanda as a partner at that point was just because he was willing to concede that he counted on her, not so much that she was just really good at what she does. Now Lee actually thinks she deserves presidential recognition. Though, I think maybe her saving his life makes him a bit biased.
And that kiss on the hand at the end. OH my Gawd. I don’t know if I really see the heat, but it was definately romantic. And yes I think Lee just wanted to touch her. It was so harsh for him when she rebuffed his touch the last time, and now he has even more reasons to want to touch her. His admiration and trust of Amanda has grown as well as their closeness. You see this in the fact that he touches her more and more from this point on. And yes I think Lee is definately falling in love at this point. He is not ready to acknowledge it yet, but the feeling is definately taking hold, and I don’t think it is long before he does start to acknowledge it. IMO he started to accept it pretty quick into season 3 after a few last ditch attempts to deny it and I think he acknoledges it to himself pretty quickly, even if not out loud. Notice there is an end to the bimbo brigade from here on out. Thank God.
“Notice there is an end to the bimbo brigade from here on out.”
“Personally, I am also with Amanda on that bullet hole being so close. I was actually a little shocked when that scene was posted at seeing the bullet go right through the sweater. I remembered the scene very well, but I don’t think it ever sunk in for some reason just how close that bullet was. I guess I forgot the tag. I understand Lee had to make it look realistic, but Lord, if anything had gone even slightly wrong. Don’t get me wrong, I am sure Lee was taking no chances with Amanda’s life. I am sure he was confident enough that he could come that close and not hit, but thank heavens he wasn’t wrong.”
Has any body seen “Knight and Day?” It is a movie with Tom Cruise and Cameron Diaz. I don’t usually like those two but I liked this one. It was like SMK but the whole 4 years played out in about a week. Anyway, there is a scene where Roy Miller (Cruise’s character, an agent) has to shoot someone to keep them from following him. He just picks up the gun and shoots, but he runs over to the guy and tells him that the bullet went straight through, didn’t hit a bone or any important artery. It made me think of this shooing scene in BO. It must be part of the training for a top agent to know how to convincingly shoot someone without hurting them. They both (Lee and Roy) did it with out much hesitation.
Ok it’s really really late here and I need to get to bed but how the heck does BB do that shutting one eyelid wink?!!! He keeps the whole side of his face still and shuts one eye. How? I can’t do it, I end up lifting my cheek muscles.
Yeah I clearly need sleep LOL
Rofl.. I can do it! 😉
Ooooh, I forgot to add, don’t knock the knitted cardigans. They were very stylish in their day – back in the 80’s I knitted an identical one to KJ’s in this scene but in bright yellow and in honeycomb stitch. What was I thinking? My first knitting project, a crazy colour and one of the most difficult knitting stitches to unpick if it all turns nasty. But I finished it and thought I looked the bees-knees in it (translation : “bees-knees” = “fabulous!”). I’m still knitting all these years later – anyone else here in Ravelry? A bit off topic but just thought I’d ask since Amanda’s cardigans seem to come up in discussion quite often.
LOL.. I actually don’t mind the knitted cardy.. I wouldn’t make an arrest for it 😉 I think the blue cardy is lovely on Amanda 🙂
I think Anyone who can knit their own cardy is pretty clever!
Congrats on creating your avatar Shona!
I’ll let others respond re Amanda’s confidence for now.. there really is a whole lot to discuss at the end of this episode huh!
Amanda sure did knit them in every color didn’t she, they are all exactly the same design. I love that about the costume picks for Amanda.
The way Amanda ducks her head and raises her shoulder when she is shaking Billy’s hand really reminds me very much of an ex-colleague who had intelligence and aptitude in abundance, was well travelled and knew a lot of the world and the people in it, but somehow still was hugely lacking in confidence in herself and her own self worth. It always bothered me. I don’t have the skill to analyse this but KJ’s acting her is uncannily close to how my colleague behaved. Anyone with more knowledge of human behaviour care to comment on this?
I’m not good at the relationship stuff either, so enjoy all your comments and analysis of this. I’ve learned a lot from SMK and this site about how healthy human relationships develop.
And my big achievement of the last 24 hours – I’ve finally managed to create an image for my avatar. Wh-hooooo!
Congratulations on the avatar! ~an avatar-less fellow-commenter 🙂
Congrats on the avatar, Shona! Love the vette!! I also love to embarrass my kids (especially when they have friends in the car) by pointing out any Corvettes we see. I point and beam as I say, “There’s a Corvette, you guys – Scarecrow’s car!” Both my kids just groan and say, “I hate Corvettes!” LOL.
I have a son who loves Corvettes. Someday one will be parked in my drive I am sure. unfortunately he likes the 80’s model least. I may try to find him a silver 80’s one anyway. I wouldn’t mind having it parked in my drive…
I love the c4 Corvette design that emerged in 1984 (after the curvy coca cola bottle shaped ‘vettes of the 70’s). The c4 design is more restrained, more elegant – it more perfectly captures the essence of a shark gliding through the water. The latest Corvette design (post 1996) doesn’t impress as much, it’s not so distinctive as the c4 but still I wouldn’t object to one parked in my garage.
Good avatar Shona! I finally figured how to do it out and now change it on a whim. Hah, see, changed it again ;). It’s the little pleasures…..
So how do you do it? I was wondering myself a couple days ago.
Just click on the box with the little figure on the right of your comments. It should bring up a box and then follow the instructions to sign up (using your wordpress sign in info). You can upload a picture from the internet or your computer. Voila!
OMG, how did you ever get thought the tag with out swooning repeatedly Iwosd???!?!? Ohmygoodnessagprrgababldmjeoejmdjcbkrjndkishfbf¥!!!!
*searches for that darn helmet while repeatedly reading the tag* I haven’t even gotten to your analysis yet because I was too overcome with the multilayered gooey goodness of it all, *swoon thud!!!*
Oh there’s a gif!!! I will just have to book mark it so I can go to it anytime anywhere! Grazie Iwsod again!!!
Hi Jule, I’m trying to follow Amanda’s lead: and toughen up a bit so I don’t swoon everytime Lee smiles…. I’ve commenced a systematic desensitisation program yeah- it’s called blogging ‘Just Walk With Me’ .. ahem.. well if I don’t toughen up.. how will I cope with season three and four? LOL!!!! tee heee.. I guess we do increase in Lee swooniness in small increments.. probably a consideration of what the audience can cope with 😉 Thank goodness.. cos my desensitisation plan doesn’t seem to be working! 🙂
Well, since I’ve been in LA (Lee Anonymous) for 30 plus years and it hasn’t worked, good luck with that there desensitizing program Iwsod! *giggle to self that self is not really trying hard*
You’re an enabler!! 😉
*grins broadly* And proud of it!
You and me both. That tag OHMYHEAVENSOHMYHEAVENGOBSMACKDROOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
How could KJ get through this when I am on the verge of hyperventilating just thinking about it?
And Jule, problem with LA and SMKA is that I think the first step is to admit we have a problem. Nope, not going to happen, especially not with our Enabler Extraordinaire ISWOD.
ROFL! You are so right Cindy. Nope, only problem I have is having to take time to do stuff to survive, you know, eat sleep family, drat! EE Iwsod, your loyal addicts just have one little, teensy weensy problem, we need gifs all the time! I think a pair of Google Glasses with all your droolworthy gifs is in order for everyone. *runs into the wall as Lee kisses her fingers* Yep, I could live with the bruises for all Lee all the time! Heh heh!
Rofl! yes I was thinking about it later – and the irony was not completely lost on me.. Me? calling Jule an enabler? 😉 I am the one posting all the pics and gifs of Lee! 😉 tee heee.. yes I think my program in reality is a great big enabling program for us all!
Yes, when I have recovered from watching this gif (and now I gotta rewatch the tag on the actual episode), then I’ll come back and comment. Great stuff here, but my brain is fading ……
Don’t think that thought hasn’t crossed my mind (and probably my family’s) more than once. 🙂